Hello Zig Forums

Hello Zig Forums,

I'm a visitor from /tg/ who having gun and game related problem, I thought you could help (or at the very least, argue about a gun related question).

At what point does ammunition become sufficiently huge that one shot kills/the exit channel is so big that recovery is not a practical option. I keep reading about people surviving multiple gutshots (often hilariously large amounts over 20) from smaller calibers and I watch some Zig Forums related youtube but I have to admit that its mostly over my head. So Presuming Center of Mass (Gutshots) that don't immediately paralyze (so leave the spine out of it ) how big does the bullet have to be to put someone down.

The idea is to help me make my tacticool operators tabletop that much more accurate/Streloklike.

Alternatively if you want to tell me the most essential traits of an operator that would also be of use. Thanks again, teegee out.

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You still believe in the stopping power meme, which is only half true.
A large and powerful bullet from a high powered cartridge when fired will have more terminal velocity and of course, bigger momentum due to the increased mass and of course the gaping hole that is proportional to the caliber of the bullet and the bullet's design FMJ, soft point or hollow point, etc.
But if you don't hit the central nervous or major organs the target would likely still capable of firing back or slashing the hell out of you. This is where the whole terminal velocity and impact comes in. The temporal cavity created by the impact and penetration can disrupt the nerves and the organ in its path. The bigger this cavity is, the more likely it can hit the places where it needs to hit. The permanent cavity is the famous gaping hole you heard about.
So technically speaking, every modern cartridge that passes the FBI gel test 12 inches of penetration and permanent cavity is very fatal. But the more powerful the cartridge is, the higher the chance you can neutralize the target if you just aim and shoot at his torso generically.
But I would say 5.56 and .308 hunting round are very lethal. 5.56 can create multiple permanent would cavities on impact with appropriate terminal velocities and good bullets. And .308 hollow point? You can google it yourself it is not pretty

At your current level of knowledge you won't be able to do this.


Shoo shoo hairy gyro-man. Save your wrath for the commies and the kikes. and amerimutts too

Case in point. Generic slavshit .308 soft point.
The shockwave at first is the temporal cavity, and what remained is permanent duh.
Think about what kind of disruption that shockwave can cause to the nerves and organs in its path. And you can pretty much assume that anything on the path of the permanent cavity is gone. Ballistic gel seeks to emulate the human flesh. And if it passes 12 inches, you can assume that it can penetrate entirely through a human torso, bones included.

CHECK THE CATO-LOG WE HAVE QUESTION THREAD

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Pretty good post aside from the stealth muttposting.

So to make sure, use .50 caliber, preferably .50BMG, no human is going to survive that (unless very lucky).

155mm, hollowpoint.

Piss off you are not going to contribute, cunt.

In real life it has to leave about 1500J in the body center mass in order to shock the cardiovascular system into paralyzing a person.

That doesn't mean a bullet with 1500J energy, it means a bullet that leaves that much energy in the body. For example if its approaching the body at 2000J, and it exits the body with 500J, you did the job.

Anything less than that usually doesn't work, and anything much less than 900J just leaves a simple icepick wound.

Filtered, muttposting is no contribution.

Is this a shitpost?


Show yourself the door, spergook/spermutt/muttspammer or whatever unfortunate being you are.
I will never censor myself, you nogun fuck.

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filtered for mutt

filtered for sperg

filtered for mutt

filtered for sperg

filtered for mutt

filtered for sperg

filtered for mutt

filtered for sperg

Report any post that spams "mutts" unironically and any post that pretends to complain about muttspam.
And then filter.

Realistically aside from mounted guns and some sniper rifles (that I rather thought were classified as anti-material althought I dont know if that's just pc for splatty) is there much in the personal weapon range that is 50 cal?

Everything under could potentially take mutliple guts shots and walk/crawl out if unlucky?

M8, I think you really need to read more on guns before you post. And lurk even longer.

there is one

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I appreciate the post, I guess I really didnt appreciate the stopping power of the .308 (or even the .22/5.56 rounds.


Ahhh well, I can understand the sentiment. I am a crossboarder but I am not trying to particularly shitup your board. Mods can anchor/delete and I won't post anymore. I was hoping for a simple(ish) answer and I should have know better.

Thanks for your time fellas.

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Not if you hit anything important, and there is an awful lot of important stuff in the guts

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Board is just under attack by this one gooklarping amerimuttcunt. The hostility isn't meant for you.
But you should read more on guns
Maybe visit an actual range

454 Casull
Next question

>instantly trying to convert him
kek

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Bewährungsbataillon :^)

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KEK

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You're looking to completely blow the torso to smithereens, 30 mm is the lowest practical bound for that. People can survive getting shot with .50 BMG and if medical treatment is provided readily they can recover from that. Probability of surviving a 20 mm is, I suppose, very remote, but as I said, as long as the target makes it out in identifiable pieces, you can put them back together.

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What are they gonna do, attack us with spades?

Why are you baiting like this? Do you want to be used as test subject for the PZ ammo reproduction also?

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令人印象深刻的是,中国龙再次展示了它的量子爪。
但是现在删除这个机密视频。

Sorry, I don't speak ching chang :3

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I wonder how long will it take for spergkraut to shit up the board with his VPN monologue so much that he's making half of its traffic.

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You seem very interested in keeping the sperkraut boogeyman alive, while we are having a real sperg ruining every thread with fake complaints.

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Yes you can survive a bullet like that. You gonna spill your intestines all over the floor but you won't be dead instantly. If a team of skilled and equipped medics were just happen to be nearby, they could feasibly put you back together. If that were a 20 mm, that probably wouldn't work out but I think there's a chance that it still could. With 30 mm the torso will be blown to bits and intestines get pretty much turned into a smoothie, so reassembling a person from that wouldn't be possible.

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Nice bait.
But if you entered coma after that kind of trauma, wouldn't you be dead already? The bloodloss and the infections would set in almost immediately.

Not a boogeyman, just an old retard. You've already given yourself out by sperging both now and before. Now all the concerned people know the root of the problem.
Yeah, he's using an Unknown flag and several VPNs, who'd have guessed?


Put at least some effort into imitating discussion to disguise your subversive shitposting.

And you just demonstrated you know nothing about how VPNs work or what would not happen if you uses multiple VPNs in the same browser session.
I'm beginning to suspect you are the spergook here.
What a sad little creature. Anyway, please elaborate the discussion further by telling us how a person would survive a .50 BMG direct hit in the guts under 1 km.
Please. I mean I made 2 replies from the start already. They were not too bad. But you?

Ask any deer hunter who uses high power rifle, yes there are survivable shots with soft point ammunition and high power rifles, but very few points on the body can be hit without major damage, and when it comes to center mass and head, most hits will probably be fatal. When someone is accidentally shot in the field with, say, a 270 or a 30-06 with expanding ammunition, then survives, its considered a near miracle. Things can be worse for a human than a deer with a torso shot in the fact that a hunter throwing a round on a deer and gut shooting it might have a wound that is all gut, with temporary and permanent cavitation far away from the up front critical organs, also low enough to maybe not affect the spine; the human torso sees many critical organs not that far off the guts, the spine relatively closer to the rest of the torso.

Is my battle rifle filled with soft points a guaranteed one stop shot? No. But honestly it comes reasonably close. I've read somewhere too that there aren't recorded cases of anyone not wearing body armor taking more than one direct shot of 12 gauge buckshot to the torso (all pellets hitting, not a few grazers) and not been incapcaitated. Thus, history and case studies suggest that if your first direct blow to the chest of an attacker with your double barrel shotgun full of buckshot doesn't stop him, theoretical statistics say the second one should.

But gut shots, as a topic to itself, are interesting. I've read on soldiers with gut shots who lived and sometimes were ambulatory after massive gut wounds that managed to miss the major blood vessels and spine. A gut shot deer or other large game is a bad scenario, not only will it ruin the meat but a really poor shot will lead to an animal that can track a long ways, a long time. Multiple gut shot handgun wounds have put many a man into intensive medical care with variable long term outcomes, but also the least effective stopping instances for center torso shots when they only go through intestine, and again, miss the really vital shit.

As been mentioned, place of hit and how the round does its work is all important. There's no video game points system, its the real life damage to real life systems that count. Blow off most of a man's arm with a 20mm canon, you might be surprised if he comes to, gets a tourniquet, keeps fighting in extreme men in extreme scenarios.

Its not so much the "magic round" that guarntees the one stop shot, its the hit and how the hit is done. Just that some rounds are vastly, vastly, vastly superior in this regard.

Has anyone gotten gel to pop from temproary cavity being so big?

Reminder that spergook/muttspammer only posts to "complain" about some bullshit and never actually posts about guns, or he would babble some bullshit a nogun cuck would say. Like this fuckface does.
Report and filter.

Yes, I shouldn't have taken the bait, but I couldn't let the fucker derail the thread by defaming me.


I don't think many gun hobbyists ever doubted the power of the .50 BMG on soft targets. So this is probably one of the few recorded tests out there.


Someone should do a gel test of the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer to see if temporal cavities can ever be as deadly as permanent cavities, kek.

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Would it be terminally destructive if all it does is passing through the target?
But since the mass is so low, would it even pass through a human torso completely before getting deformed from the violence of the likely Mach 5 impact?
Some rich niggers need to get on this asap.

Don't try to be honest when your main goal is spreading lies. You out yourself.
Sure, losing the lower half of the body, while will lead to extreme blood loss and loss of consciousness, don't disable the brain and so could be survived, provided immediate medical help. And if you're using FMJ you're getting even less damage. And even brain damage can be suvived - there were cases of people recovering from getting shot in the head, iirc even with shotgun after suicide failure.
No, they were worse.
Yes, yes, we get that you're trying to conflate these two. You can stop now.

I remember that you won't be able to reach velocity higher than 6K+fps because of the speed of the powder burn, so this one is probably just as powerful as picrel, maybe even less because of the caliber.

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Jesus Christ, stop shitting your pants.

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Nice try, spermutt/gook.
Reported.

Nice non-reply, getting creative with screenshot names. Do you think nobody realizes that if you post a screenshot of a single browser session that'll magically show all your other ones, be it different browsers, computers or sessions?

Could it be that you report spam non-stop so that BO can't filter reports of your own posts?

And to add to your garbage post, the chance of surving direct hits to the brains or major arteries is almost zero. And no medic team is always on standby to save you.

But nice job copying what other Russian flag said. Surely we can't see that you have done exactly what spergook is known for. Namely nogun posting and fake complaints.


Because that is all I took in this thread, retarded scum. Anons are right, reported for meta bitching and not contributing to the thread. You ousted yourself, spergook.

Does calling everyone spergook really work? It didn't seem to have any effect last time you did that.

STOP
FEEDING
IDIOT

REPORT HIM
AND FILTER

Almost zero and zero are very different things
Then just about any gunshot would would do. You'll die from blood loss and infection when shot in the intestines even with a 22.

Talk about garbage posts.

One last bump just so any lurker that isn't repulsed by the spergs can read about terminal ballistic reality.


One last (you)
And report

Hey, it wasy you who was pretending to start arguing, not me. Just because someone else said something similar doesn't mean i'm wrong. But have a report in return, if you like it so much. I doubt it'll do anything, though. The board is almost dead inside anyway.

I've met a guy who survived a 40mm bofors AP round. Hit him right on the outside of the leftside torso and took out a huge amount of his liver and organs there. Couldn't walk for three years, still has a gaping U shaped hole in that side. Humans are stupidly durable cunts.


Most bullets that pass about the 16 inch mark for bare ballistic gel are going to punch clean through the torso. Given that you're trying to exclude spine injuries, I'm guessing
Which means that the minimum gel penetration results that should be taken into account for large game is 30". If you're looking to stop someone dead in their tracks, you want veins, arteries and nerves damages to trigger flinch responses in nerve clusters-powerful pistol rounds such as 10mm and revolver cartridges such as .357 magnum and up with large bullet expansion on hit can do this. If you want complete annihilation, you need massive expansion and/or explosives within the bullet, starting with .50BMG. An important point to note- full metal jacket rounds do not expand and actually increase the chance of people surviving a confrontation. General buttnaked is a great example of this.

TLDR;
Assuming you shot the cunt at 50m:
3 shots hollowpoint 44 magnum: He's done, and most large game is terminal
5.56 hollowpoint: Going to need immediate trauma team in the next 30 seconds, else kebab removed
.308 hollowpoint: Kebab removed even harder
.308 or 8mm explosive round: Kebab B Gone
Expanding shotgun slug to center mass = fucking dead on the spot, permanent wound channel extends to nearly 34 inches, with a gaping hole an inch in diameter
45-70 government expansion- Organ salad, wound channel on gel extends 28 inches, wound channel 3/4 of an inch
.50 BMG high explosive tracer: Nothing left of whatever you hit, it's chunky salsa from the bullet impact alone, the explosive is the icing on the cake that turns it into puree
20mm cannon explosive: The field around them for 10m is now fertilized with blood and bone and entire torsos go absent
30mm: The above but even harder

REMINDER TO EVERYONE WHO HAS FORGOTTEN THE FUNDAMENTAL RULE OF THE INTERNET

D N F T T

I filtered it.


Which range?

But if the whole bullet is not strong enough to withstand the impact, it can fragmentate. Which is how the 5.56 earns it reputation. Best not forget to mention this lest the cunts start spewing memes about how 5.56 isn't deadly.

If teh bullet fragments but lacks the velocity/energy for permanent stretch cavities, it may actually decrease the damage the bullet will do. Also 55 grain ball wasn't always guaranteed to fragment the way you wanted it to every time, change up barrel lengths and range of shot and you really screw that up. Old fragmenting ball is still inferior to hunting bullets in that caliber, plus newer ball doesn't fragment in many situations. That's also why 5.56 has gained its reputation for ice picking.

Sound like total bullshit.

Who does he mean by this?

If it exists there's porn of it?

Don't feed the troll.

Err, no sweetie

I too prefer consistent performance, which hunting bullets provide.