Thread for discussing implications of this new law, what effects it has on organization, and what to do about it in the short-term and long-term.
A burgerland law that holds online platforms responsible for user content. In theory this is targeted specifically at sex traffickers, but in reality is worded so vaguely it could impact any talk of sex work due to frivolous lawsuits. In practice it has already shut down sites not affiliated with trafficking but with "voluntary" prostitution and has resulted in fedbook bans for using the words "sex work" and "escort". Effectively this means hookers and allies will struggle to organize without getting shutdown and that what resources they had to make their activities safer has been removed.
theintercept.com
dailydot.com
godsandradicals.org
The powers given to the state to deal with "traffickers" can be extended to deal with "extremists", which will of course be us communists. This means that any talk of organizing or discussion of revolution, let alone advocating for it, will potentially be grounds to see our platforms seized and shut down. This destroys organizational capability on a massive scale and reduces us to local organizations at best. If we aren't directly opposing Sesta-Fosta through activism, we should at least take note of how hookers are organizing under this law with the expectation we will have to contend with something similar.
Many yuropoor states like Germany already have agencies that watch communists, it would not be out of the question to see yuropoor states adopt similar laws to go after radicals.
Sesta-Fosta
Other urls found in this thread:
act.eff.org
medium.com
engadget.com
congress.gov
enoughisenough14.org
deadline.com
avn.com
ynot.com
nbcnews.com
thecrimereport.org
thebody.com
Living in burgerland fucking sucks. I remember freaking out and trying to warn people about the effects of FOSTA-SESTA if it got passed and people either didn't care or called me a misogynist for not wanting to "fight sex trafficking". Now that it's passed these same people are freaking out saying "OMG THIS IS LIKE, A THREAT TO FREE SPEECH. WHY DIDN'T ANYONE WARN US!?"
States now have the ability to subvert democracy, so voting them out is out of the question. I say we need a general strike and during this time we riot and protest, but burgers are too fucking lazy and don't want to do that. I say just go full schizo at this point. Build a bomb shelter, purchase a weapon (or two), stockpile food and water, and learn some basic survival skills; so when the inevitable happens (the collapse of the American empire) you will be prepared.
I don't think even most leftists realize how fragile the American empire is. It's come to rely on unsustainable military action and extremely cheap labor through prisons and undocumented immigrants. In extending itself so much it's created unintentional pressure points. Pushing back against the drug war or creating a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants pushes directly against American business interests, and these are no-brainer moves that most people are on board with regardless of class consciousness. The rate of profit has fallen so much that even basic attempts at looking after workers' interests is a serious threat to capital. Undocumented workers are a crucial part of food production for instance, and the model of American agriculture has built itself on the assumption that Mexicans will pick fruit and so on. Recognizing these people and giving them protections would disrupt the food industry. Prisoners work on all sorts of things including military hardware, so ending the drug war (which provides at least half of the prison workforce) is harmful to the military industrial complex.
I remember when PRISM came out people were like "loool WHO CARES u kno ackshually gov spying can be good! What are you a CRIMINAL?!" The n came cambridge analytica which had a lot more media coverage because drumbf and everyone lost their shit. I'm losing hope…
Consider that people are capable of functioning "correctly" even within such a horrible system because we're so adaptable. Capitalism can't sustain itself forever. Cracks are showing, and people are realizing what's up thanks largely to the internet. When things "go bad" which is to say this horrible machine breaks down and we're relatively free, we will be able to adapt to that as well. Maybe that can give you hope.
hold up
what the fuck am i reading
postan in an epic thread
You're telling me fam, I was in the same boat as you.
Yeah, for the worse our organizations are anemic and incapable of doing that, as the flaccid anti-war protests have recently shown. I think this allows the opportunity to organize around something, but frankly the left seems to be largely content with twitter rants about situations miles away or decades removed.
Other than the bomb shelter I've been doing that for a while.
Yeah, a deep recession and an emergent labor movement could easily destabilize the empire that some of our friends think is an omnipotent force that can only be beaten by ragtag third world MLM (anti-revisionist) parties blessed by dialectical materialism. The issue is that as things currently are the hamburger empire's death throes will produce a fascist force that can easily overpower whatever leftist movement emerges even if somehow we managed to get along and fight cohesively instead of fighting each other. We need to organize now along class lines to be ready when this collapse happens, and the best way to do that is to get involved in shit like this or prison strikes or undocumented workers in order to radicalize workers and show that we are on their side. Given that about 15% of college students at least consider prostitution to pay for classes, and I wager this will only increase with time, opposition to this particular shit endears us to a fairly wide group of sex workers and their allies and aligns with our interests of delaying the state seizing subversive platforms with ease.
translation:
Why haven't they done so already then? Why was the part of the law that deals with calls violence altered to specifically allow communists to agitate for civil war?
You're overthinking this, OP. The objection to SESTA-FOSTA is far more straightforward, that its gutting of section 230 of the Communications Act of 1934 will make online services liable in court for what its users do, regardless of the service's stated user policies:
act.eff.org
In other words, modcuckery that cultivates and typifies SJW-domination in online "leftist" venues will become legally mandated, killing off unmoderated venues like Zig Forums. Even for small-time hotpocketeers, anyone other than giant corps that can hire full-time hotpockets (NSABook/OpinionsTube/Twatter/Feddit/Tumblr/etc) would be opened up falseflag planting (CP, "human trafficking", /scurv/, "hatespeech", etc.) that could shut them down, bankrupt them with fines and fees, or even land them in jail.
This is bullshit.
This is double bullshit
The reality on illegal aliens is that they make up only a small fraction of the total immigrant population, and a microscopic fraction of immigration, moreover one that has been mysteriously maintained at a total population of ~10M from the '90s to the present day, prior to the '90s having been 3 million or much less. Coincidentally, the majority of illegal aliens (>2/3rds) are overstayed legal visas, not "muh wetback meme", suggesting the fakeness of the entire charade. Legal immigration, on the other hand, has been growing massively since the quota system was destroyed in 1965, and is now reaching per-capita levels (>13% of population for 1st-gen alone, >22% for all gens since 1965) unseen since the 1800s.
We only "rely on" illegal aliens to keep legal immigrants fearful, in turn, we only rely on legal mass economic immigration to keep native labor fearful. And what does the 3rd-world get out of it, the billions who could never come here even under the most insane open-borders policy? Less than nothing.
Close the spigot, and the whole scam will grind to a halt.
I'm not a virgin and I don't take those drugs fam, try to come up with better insults.
Because as is now the left is flaccid and the pretense of free speech is still valuable to capitalism in the west. If that changes, and most of us here are banking on that being the case, we need to know how to organize under such conditions and try to delay it from happening to get as powerful as we can be.
Naw, I was just trying to write it in the most relatable way to most anons by emphasizing the likely endpoint of such a law on our specific interests. The point stands that our platforms could be seized by $$$comrades$$$ posting what you listed or by the law expanding to make conversation about action impossible. This of course would remove Zig Forums, wherever we may move beyond Zig Forums, or anywhere where leftist politics went beyond supporting electoral candidates and impotent protests from use for revolutionary socialists.
Then why do most western countries ban hate speech? Why is communist speech deemed a lesser threat to the capitalist powers that be than calling people filthy niggers?
Getting called a fuckwit on twitter isn't banning your speech stormcuck.
The latter is not deemed a real threat (they just ban it to seem progressive), but neither are communists currently. The threat-assessment of communists will change over time as shit gets worse and the left reinvigorates itself.
The world is bigger than your american twitter bubble.
And so we come down to the level where contradictory evidence becomes supportive evidence, the end-stage of conspiracy theorists. If all the governments, politicians, lawyers and so on, that create such laws are doing so in bad faith, we could just as well assume that they're all communists acting like they're not to seem liberal/christian/democratic/whatever.
most east euro countries (i.e. places where the left has been in power in living memory) *do* ban communist speech, often with the encouragement of western governments and intelligence services. Along with a few "former" dictatorships elsewhere with an active, non-coopted left.
West euros and burgers don't bother because there's nothing to ban, at most it's a de facto socdem party waving red flags for the edge.
What? No. "Progressivism" is entirely compatible with Liberalism, Communism isn't. These laws are in large part virtue signalling by Neoliberals to look better to the voting populace.
This. Notice that white nationalists are rife with involvement in organized crime, due to their origin as prison gangs, so they're a target of law enforcement infiltration and suppression. Now notice that the only countries where leftist activism is targeted by law enforcement are those countries (e.g.: Greece) where leftist activism takes the form of genuine insurrectionism rather than impotent LARPing.
Lol welcome to the internet cherry boy.
Now try to come up with some better rationale for your rambling than "protect my whore and drug sites because ugh communism".
We've already established gutting the Communications Act of 1934 and the precedent of getting banned form major platforms merely for saying words loosely associated with "trafficking" as reasons for concern, and drugs were mentioned nowhere but your butthurt posts because they're irrelevant to the discussion. Make an argument why revolutionaries shouldn't be concerned with this expansion of state power or go back to miss piggy's play pen.
what anime
It's from an artist who uses the porky flag. The one in OP and pic related are the only ones I have, but other anons or the booru might have more.
it is a good meme :)
So does anyone have any idea of how to combat Sesta-Fosta or how to organize in case similar restrictions get applied to radical politics?
As a direct result of the fact that SESTA-FOSTA is so amateurishly written that the Section 230 revision might have been at least partly accidental, the law itself may be unenforcable gobbledegook in legal terms. As such, a variety of entities up to the Justice Department itself may launch challenges in court on constitutional grounds:
medium.com
Boku no Porko
It is more entertaining than just Jesus crap, so I'm happy.
Holy shit they are already testing the measures they'll put in place when this crap starts to affect them.
Just wait until it goes from no porn to no radical politics.
Bump
Recent developments have seen the UK looking to adopt a similar measure to Sesta-Fosta.
engadget.com
But more importantly, here in burgerland we've seen the introduction of the Unmasking Antifa bill, which is a result of the J20 protestors getting off and increasing opposition to capitalism. This bill slams you with a 15 year sentence for wearing a mask or disguise while "injures, oppresses, threatens, or intimidates any person", and just like sesta-fosta is loose enough to get you for shit unrelated to antifa like covering your face from tear gas or covering up to avoid dox photos getting taken. Given that burgerland was able to sit through Klan lynchings before they decided wearing a mask was bad, it's fairly obvious that this is targeted at us socialists and regardless of what you think about antifa this is going to be an obstacle to us in organizing or protesting.
congress.gov
enoughisenough14.org
There's hope for sesta-fosta getting nullified by the supreme court, but they're porky shills and burgerland is more than happy to throw away principles to keep undesirables down.
deadline.com
All these developments combined makes me think we could very well see an effort to clamp down on "radical extremism" or some shit that expands beyond burgerland, which of course will be used against us more than the suburban nazis. The internet thread made me think of this, but if we can't use the internet or get our usage castrated we need to plan on how to organize without it if we end up in dire circumstances. I don't have anything but vague platitudes on how to do this, and was wondering if anyone else had ideas or experience in doing so, and if anyone is informed on how the hookers are dealing with Sesta-Fosta if there is anything to learn from that.
Getting raided, bumping to save
Yesterday Sesta-fosta got a hearing and the judge didn't do shit. Judge Richard Leon expressed belief that none of the plaintiffs were caused harm, which could go along with the DoJ's desire to get the case dismissed. This means that despite being poorly written and potentially unenforceable, the law could stand for a long time to the detriment of our hooker friends.
avn.com
ynot.com
If you're wondering why I posted links from sex work related sites it's because most press isn't covering sesta-fosta and when they do they completely ignore anyone but muh techbros, who they portray negatively.
nbcnews.com
Some examples of sesta-fosta making shit harder for sex workers, particularly the poor ones
thecrimereport.org
thebody.com
What we can gather from this is that if a similar law is passed that cracks down on "extremism", and it will be going by the recent anti-antifa bill, we're gonna be driven off the internet and wait for a very long time to get our day in a court predisposed against us anyways. The media will not favor us, the cops will not go after aut-right fags, and we will damn sure not have the money to fight the state in court. It will be an absolute disaster for us, and probably get us killed by whatever capitalism in decay looks like. In the meantime it is necessary to fight to delay this by showing solidarity with hooker friends and to establish communication that can survive a crackdown. To that end we need to go outside and organize with other working class people and push resistance to sesta-fosta in what orgs we are in.
Bump with hooker anfem lewds.
what a waste
Is there an OC thread? Who draws those?
Yup, dunno if the artist is active there though he might still go on Zig Forums, but his style has been overshadowed by stuff like pic related.
A guy who posts with a porky flag.
It's more relevant to left politics than booze, veganism, or Ace's daily retarded thread.
Why though? The porn Alunya always seemed like a smear campaign to me. Why do /left*pol/ers reuse the images so much? Like what's next; adopt the ugly Maotist LARPer as our spokesperson?
Why support the smearing of your community's mascot?
Probably because it's just some fucking drawing?
Booze and vegan food are nice things that are compatible with and should be produced in communist society. Sex markets and the objectification of bodies as commodities are not. An alliance with sex traffickers against Sesta-Fosta because of possible extension to other activities deemed illegal by the state is akin to an alliance with holocaust deniers against the curtailment of free speech.
Pro-sex-workerists think that prostitution=work and work=good. They also think that prostitution is an empowering professional choice because the only prostitutes they know are middle class turd-wave "feminists" who unlike 99% of prostitutes worldwide, choose to be prostitutes with little coercion and receive high remuneration, choose their own hours etc… Therefore Alunya and white first world "anfem" willfully selling their bodies and "sexual consent" to Porky for a wage is a pleasant thought to their cuckold minds in the same way that a worker producing commodities for market exchange in a co-op business or a "socialist" nation is a pleasant thought to them. The 'porked' cartoons seem to be a conscious satire of this sex-workerist ideology, which most of those that post them don't seem to catch the irony of.
It's a meme, we're laughing at the fact some Zig Forumsack thought we would be mortally offended by a depiction of a fictional cartoon catgirl being fucked an anthropomorphic pig. And because the artist is honestly better than most others who have drawn Alunya.
Vegan food is debatable and neither is of a concern to left politics. This law, especially combined with the recent Unmasking Antifa bill is.
Actually sex-traffickers don't have much of an issue with the law as it actually makes it harder for cops to track them and pushes some hookers back to pimps due to the removal of "safety tools" that allow them to screen johns, if anything they could be seen as supporting it similar to how other criminal organizations support prohibition of certain substances. It's an alliance with "voluntary" hookers who largely come from the proletariat and unless they make a lot of money and invest it in lucrative endeavors will slide back into the proletariat after exiting prostitution.
That's not completely true, all think prostitution can equal work, but the socialist ones don't think work=good and support who they consider to be the workers. Thus in the context of this law and other similar situations, it is no different to them than supporting workers in another industry they may find unsavory, such as vegans supporting workers in a meat packing plant. Prostitution isn't empowering anymore than being a janitor is, but prostitution and the sex industry at large are a reality in this capitalist hell and writing off those who end up working in it is similar to writing off low-wage workers in the financial industry.
Veganism is fucking stupid. Humane farming is good. Thinking that it's possible to be vegan is factually incorrect. Farming plants kills loads of animals via destruction of habitat, pesticide, etc. So vegans are just roleplayers. The other problem is that all animals will die no matter what you do. Dying from a hunter shooting you is vastly preferable to your body failing slowly because of some disease, old age, or a lack of food. Life on a (non-factory) farm can be far safer and more comfortable than life in the wild. Dying from a bolt to the brain is preferable to dying of old age or disease. This shit about not harming animals is the same kind of stupid bullshit that causes people to say they wouldn't pull the lever in the Trolley Problem.
That's because of the "as commodities" part, and applies to any sort of commodity. Newsflash - sex work vastly predates capitalism or non-generalized commodity production. And calling prostitution "sex work" is not objectification of the prostitutes. The worker is a subject, not an object. If anything the concept of sex work is objectifying the Johns.
Conflating escorts with sex traffickers is akin to conflating Adorno with Hitler because he wanted to preserve culture. And protecting the right to deny the holocaust is extremely important, because any such serious event must be open to scrutiny and critical examination. The mere fact that holocaust deniers exist raises serious questions about information in society, and suppressing the speech of those people suppresses the questions their speech raises.
If you were an emotional adult maybe you would ask people their opinion instead of making shit up. Sex work is neither good nor bad. Some people make their living that way. Many because it's the best or only option. I don't live in a world of abstract values and "right action." I live in a world with real physical people who deal with physical consequences. The world isn't a storybook where the heroes triumph because they did "the right thing." Denying people their livelihood without providing a better alternative is unjustifiable outside of a myopic worldview based on deontological "right action" nonsense.
There is no empowering professional choice in capitalism. Not even being bourgeois. Not even working at a co-op (you still have to obey the market). This is a comparatively comfortable living you describe and those people shouldn't be denied it any more than the people who have no better option should be denied it.
There's nothing pleasant about scraping by, but it's vastly preferable to not doing so. The revolution isn't happening tomorrow, and people need to eat today. If making it more difficult to survive right now is "good praxis" according to your theory then it's a shit theory by the standards of working people. The worth of a theory is in its ability to help people improve things, not in its adherence to some abstract ideal that neither exists nor feels gratitude for your deeds of devotion. The form of your ideology is that of supplication to God, dressed up in the trappings of science and the colors of socialism.
This is not at all subtle, and the fact that you think it is shows how much you overestimate your cleverness. Most people see through the stupidity and detachment from reality involved in this idea and are willing to settle for better living conditions until a revolution can take place.
sex work is bad because all work is bad. it's also completely hypocritical, counterproductive, and dangerous to sex workers to single out sex work as uniquely bad and criminalize
Nice satire of an autistic shitposter.