Shitty 22lr carbine pistols aren't legal in my country

Explain this shit, Zig Forums. Why are lawmakers so retarded?

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Other urls found in this thread:

bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF
ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2013/tables/table_35_leos_fk_with_firearms_type_of_firearm_and_size_of_ammunition_2004-2013.xls
atf.gov/resource-center/firearms-trace-data-2017
pastebin.com/GhtpAiKr
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

A .22 carbine isn't legal in Ireland? What do you guys kill rodents with, 12 gauge slugs? That's like killing a deer with a hand grenade.

.22 rifles.
.22lr rifles are completely fine, but carbines aren't. Even calibers that are way higher like .308s are legal.
Before you start thinking it has something to do with semi-auto over bolt-action, you should know that semi-auto shotguns are a-okay. Don't ask me what fucked logic our laws operate on.

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It's like this everywhere. Mossberg Shockwave isn't a shotgun, shoestrings are machine guns, Winchester carbines aren't SBRs, etc.

They aren't. Well, OK, many of them aren't. Most nations firearms laws aren't intended to make sense or make the citizens safer, they're designed to keep mouthbreathers happy and improve the politicians public image. Remember that firearms ownership is still a fairly fringe consideration with most voters (when they aren't actively, ideologically, opposed that is).

A politician one day got scared about pistols and decided to ban them.
Purpose built hunting firearms typically avoid bans because liberals are completely fine with fudds.

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Because law doesn't stem from morality anymore and now it's completely arbitrary bullshit "whatever I feel like pulling out my ass and making into law", bonus points for making ambiguous, self-condradictory laws that only the most inbred ancient jews can pilpul around (at a price) that normal human beings get lost in and end up commiting at least 5 felonies before breakfast.

Not really, they are just a lower priority.
See flag.

Yeah, no. The goal is complete civilian disarmament. The liberals are just useful idiots.
All it would take is the media to show someone ringing steel at a thousand meters with scary music in the background to get the mob screaming about "muh high powered sniper rifles" and "you don't need that to hunt durr, it's not sporting".

22lr pistol shot to the head is one of best semi-quiet murder methods.

IIRC 22lr is bullet most often used in murder

Most charts disagree with that but ive only seen by city not by country so you could be right. Chicagos chart was all 9mm, .40sw, and .38 sp

Back in the day you'd see a lot of lightweight rounds in the murder statistics, but that was mostly because urban criminals tend to use cheap, shitty guns: the infamous Saturday Night Specials. The so called "Ring of Fire" companies (Bryco, Jennings, Lorcin, Raven, Phoenix) churned out garbage in ultra light shit like 22 LR and .25 ACP back then. .380 ACP was a heavy hitter for those guys. Most of those companies went/were driven out of business quite a while ago. Despite that their products are still floating around in huge numbers and you still see crime reports of criminals getting caught with their stuff all the time.

In defense of the criminals using a shitty gun makes a lot of sense. If you're mugging someone for their walking around money or knocking over a liquor store a non-shit tier weapon would cost more than your haul. Also, my understanding is that crime guns tend to circulate: criminals will often discard or sell a weapon after using it to commit a crime in an attempt to make it harder to tie the weapon to the incident. Cheap crappy guns are ideal for this kind of illicit trade. Very much unlike legal gun owners who are concerned with almost diametrically opposed attributes: reliability, ergonomics, and power.

pic 1 is from a 1995 report
bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

I couldn't find a more recent version of pic 1 but pic 2 is from an FBI report on weapons used to kill Law Enforcement Officers
ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2013/tables/table_35_leos_fk_with_firearms_type_of_firearm_and_size_of_ammunition_2004-2013.xls

As you can see it's all over the place but 9mm and .40S&W tend to come out ahead. That matches my impression that crime gun calibers have been creeping up over the years. The Ring of Fire is defunct and lots of manufacturers now make very affordable offerings in duty cartridges (9mm and up). Hi-Point being the obvious stand out.

So maybe efforts to crack down on Saturday Night Specials just led to more powerful handguns being used in street crime?

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Found a more recent data source. This is ATF trace data so it's weapons the ATF traced for whatever reason, not just murder guns:
atf.gov/resource-center/firearms-trace-data-2017

9mm comes out ahead by a long shot. I'm kind of surprised. Still a lot of 22 LR though. I'm also kind of impressed that there are apparently people going around and comitting crimes with 30-30s.

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Lmao.

Pistols are already under a blanket ban in Ireland, I don't see the need for why carbines have to be banned as well. They get rid of the concealability, which is the main concern people have with pistols in the first place.

There's no non-retarded way to do a retarded thing.

Possibly. There is also the advent of the "wonder-nine". Double stack 9mm polymer framed. More affordable than its steel contemporaries and generally boasting higher round counts.

Beat my country, user.

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Also politicians like purpose built hunting rifles/shotguns because either they hunt, someone they know hunts or they like to hang them up on the wall to look nice because "muh wuud".
It's like "collectors" in a lot of countries where they "collect" destroyed rifles which have been "deactivated" by some illiterate half-nigger who decided to take a torch to the action of a 150 year old, invaluable piece of national history and destroy it forever in the process.

I have a friend that found a Berdan rifle in his grandma's attic, nigger went and had it scorched instead of going through the process of having it legalized because "it were easier this way, an' cheaper too!".
I wanted to kill him.

Consider the following: in my country you can purchase a Yugo or Albo AKM for anywhere between 100 and 200 EUR plus ammunition.
By contrast, just the licencing process is going to run you almost 1000 EUR, that's not counting membership fees for like 2 years in a registered shooting club(which all do some ridiculous, infantilizing shit like starting you off on air rifles) all of which are ridiculously expensive.
Then you also have competition fees which you must demonstrate regular participation in.
Then you have the fact that the cheapest, shittiest 60 year old Yugo surplus SKS is going to run you 200 EUR just to buy.

So most people just buy illegal surplus from left over from the YNA or imported by the Albanian mob. Hell, some people have anti-tank weapons in their basement.

Laws have always stemmed from interest, it's just that on rare occasions when the planets were aligned and the particular people in charge had the right chromosomes in the correct number and order that some laws were passed that made some sense.

The tale end of the 18th century was one such period and we've been suffering cosmic retribution ever since.


Did that include "police involved" incidents?

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22 is bigger than 12 so its more deadly you fucking idiot

I didnt know Greece had such strict laws, thats really shitty greekbro.

Australia is a funny place, each state has different gun laws


NSW is funny.

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Maybe it's because .22lr is easily suppressible and shorter guns are great for assassination ops? I have no idea. Maybe they were IRA favorites that were banned by association.

Don't let a gyro hear you

Can't buy 9x19 or 5.56 because they're military calibers, but 9x21 and .223 are perfectly fine

So when are you marching on Canberra?
If you show the boys in green and blue that you're not a larp they'll switch sides immediately.

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The surplus dealer Samco Global here in the US, now out of business, at one point in time had a fuck ton of .45 HP which according to their ads was just .45 ACP that was shortened by a single millimeter to get around Italy's ban on military calibers. How absurd.

Maybe they don't want soldiers to steal ammo and sell it to civillians.

The original wonder nine is the CZ 75, you faggot.

I wonder. The wonder nines go pretty far back, the 70's or 80's depending on how you count. That would put the wonder nines and the Ring of Fire around the same time period rather than one causing the other.

Out of curiosity I took another look at the ATF trace data (their website only goes back to 2014 unfortunately). Pic 1 is the raw traces and Pic 2 is the relative traces.

The total number traces is fairly constant for all calibers except 9mm. This suggests to me that what we might be seeing is the effect of new manufacture more than anything else. In other words the old crappy stuff is still around and in addition there's an influx of 9mm pistols. That would kind of make sense. A lot of me-too wonder nines came out in the early 2000's: Springfield's X-whatevers, the M&P Shield line, whatever iteration of a 9mm that never caught on Ruger was selling, etc. Pic 3 is from the Small Arms Survey and indicates an increase in U.S. domestic pistol production during that period. Even if the new guns weren't ending up on the street the extra supply and resultant price drops could have made wonder nines more attractive to criminals. I wonder where the actual crossover from 22LR / 25ACP leading to 9mm leading happened.

P.S. Please bear in mind that these are just ATF traces, not actual crime statistics. So the data might merely indicate changes in ATF enforcement efforts over the years.
(I only included the most common handgun cartridges. Apparently if you use 10mm or 44 Magnum you are a special snowflake in the eyes of the ATF. And our British friends will no doubt be pleased to learn that .303 caliber weapons actually made the list in 2014. Shine on you magnificent Limey bastards. Still killing over a hundred years later. Either that or .303 Savage made a brief comeback I guess.)

Raw data if anyone is interested:
pastebin.com/GhtpAiKr

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I mean absurd in the fact that such a difference while meeting the criteria of the law hardly prevents the use of the ammunition in a standard military arm. A mm shorter OAL in .45 ACP isn't likely to stop it from functioning.

It's not about guns, its about control.

Any gun law that can be passed, will. The actual goal of these laws, is to outlaw dissent, free-thought, and open communication. The particular path the legislators have to take to get there is almost immaterial to them.

Just remember, that any anti-gun law has to be enforced by people with guns. Get your neighbors to put that in their pipe and smoke it.