My sister is an atheist. She says she believe in science over the Bible. She believes Jesus was just a magician...

My sister is an atheist. She says she believe in science over the Bible. She believes Jesus was just a magician. She also accuses the Bible of promoting genocide and oppression against women. What do?

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youtube.com/watch?v=yto4jXOOen8
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias_of_Hierapolis
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I'm sure rising from the dead after being crucified is a common magical act now a days.

Which is it?

Ask her first of all if she can tell the difference between a recording of a historical genocide, and the advocacy of genocide in general.
"Oppression against women" is a broad category. Ask her for examples and then go through it with her. Some of them you will have to own (women should be silent in church etc.) but others (e.g. "the bible forces rape victims to marry their rapists!") are just blatant falsehoods.

I never understood why fedoras get mad over Deuteronomy 22:28-29. It actually sounds pretty fair and reasonable imo.

Either because they haven't read it (and also the verses immediately preceding it which actually do deal with rape) or because they can't get over the idea that fornication is a sin.

Dangerous case of autism

Wouldn't he come back after three days like nothing happened?

Genocide and oppress her.

How do you mess your gramma up this badly?


All the disciples went to their bloody deaths because magic tricks were enough to convince them?
And many of the followers of the apostles were willing to go to their bloody deaths, these people had seen the miracles preformed by the apostles as well, so I suppose the apostles were preforming magic tricks, meaning they knew what they were teaching was a lie, and were willing to go to their bloody tortured deaths for it, as well as every other Christian who preformed miracles after them.

And the problem is…?

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No, "if" and "a" are both spelt correctly

Wow you really got us.

He was killed mid-sentence by the Vatican's elite death squads.

What about Neuroscience?

My whole family are atheists and they always belittle me. My sisters call the bible a fairy tale story and act like they are wiser than God. My brother says I've been brain washed. They say I'm only christian because I must have some form of autism. Wat to do?

I would just go the Philosophy route, cause in philosophy, materialism, and naturalism. These are dead ends and end up going nowhere, or just end up going in circles like vid related. I would start with the basics. Ip, is ok. He's not orthodoxy on his theology, but, in terms of theology, and philosophy, i know Jay Dyer, gets memed here sometimes, but i come to like his answer regarding the, Transcendental argument, and how we ground are theology first, then go to our philosophy from there. But for instance just simple vid show how in, Philosophy we just end up going in circles with, these new age philosophies dating back to the enlightenment.

I don't think a young woman would be touched by philosophy.

Family is a very important Christian aspect, and you should pray for them regardless. But besides that, if they keep acting like how you say, they’re not treating you like family at all. You should distance yourself from them for now, but don’t completely abandon them.

"For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother." Matthew 12:50

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters–yes, even their own life–such a person cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

"And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." Matthew 23:9

Our Lord is very clear on this. You have a new family now, stick with them and hope you old family will someday join the new one.

My parents take holidays seriously. On Easter my dad kept telling me to say "Christ has risen, it's true that he has risen" in our native tongue as we knocked coloured eggs together. But then one time I was gonna buy a shirt at a mall, with a cross on it, and he was like…"it's too flashy, what are you christian or something?" Lol
So I'm really confused about them.
My mom prays but sometimes she says stuff like " you gotta work hard can't just rely on God to solve your problems…look at hobos, they're just lazy druggies most of the time, doesn't matter how much they pray.

There are a ton of philosophical and metaphysical arguments you could make to argue for the existence of God, but your sisters don't sound like they would be able to understand any of them, or at least it sounds like they wouldn't listen to you enough to even try to understand them. People like that usually just look at you with their eyes glazed over and accuse of playing word games when you try to make those sorts of arguments.

Since he's an atheist he probably watches a lot porn, which means he literally gets his brain washed, with dopamine, every time he faps. In all seriousness though, you could try the same arguments with him if he's more receptive. If you want to be an asshole, you could also try to throw bantz back at them. Make fun of them for thinking the universe created itself.

Tell her to read Proverbs at least.

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I Timothy 5:8: If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Mark 7 9-13: And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.”


These passages ring a bell too though…I wish they would stop being so condescending is all I ask. Everybody does it to me when they find out I'm christian, happens at work as well. Except my Boss and his Son, they're nice.


Yeah he does watch a lot of porn, Asian porn too. Ruined all my Lego with all his sperm. It all has to do with John 3:19-27.

I do throw bantz back at them, like "You're going to hell" and "Go eat an apple", but it never works to my advantage.

Call him a fedorafag
In all serious I'd say look up some theologians
Or the questions thread

Also forgot to mention,
Video related
And another video which I can't embed youtube.com/watch?v=yto4jXOOen8

nothing wrong with that

I feel you Brother, families can suck sometimes, my Dad is my problem. To all his redneck friends online he will say he is Christian and he will say he is in person when it suits him, but all my teenage life he always told me he didn't believe. He'll share Christian memes and templar memes all the time but never touches his bible. When I try to talk about faith and I have my apologetics in order he gets offended, attacks me for my own sins, spouts off things like "how do you know its true?" over and over, and starts quoting scifi and things like popculture scientific crap that has no strength behind it.

Came to faith from a lifetime of atheism myself, something I've realized is that you cannot change someone's mind if they don't want it to be changed. They will ask you all the questions in the world only so that they can find an "AH HA!" moment to crap on your faith and your religion, and as soon as you slap them with truth they will get more and more hostile and eventually shut down altogether.

Shake the dust off your feet and move on. Those that have ears, let them hear.

Bad translation. Should be does not provide for his "own." As in, the family dependent on you in the domestic sphere. As far as this refers to your wife and biological children, true. Your biological parents, siblings, etc. aren't under your control, your duty comes first to the church.


This isn't saying Christ endorses the traditional interpretation of "honor thy father and mother," because we see who Christ considers his father and mother in the other verses. Rather, it's pointing out the hypocrisy of the Pharisee's claimed view.

Just saying, none of it contradicts, you just need to read them in light of the other passages.

Last Vid - Lol

Show her pic related. God gave us instructions, we just haven't found the scientific proof of all of them yet.

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Tell her to refute Aquinas' Summa if she's so smart.

No matter what religion you believe in, there are people who have gone to their deaths in the name of beliefs you consider false.

But the apostles were doing some of these "magic tricks" and would have seen the trickery of it. It'd be like a kid believing his grandpa can pull a coin out of his ear until he learns the trick behind it and the magic is gone.

Finger her to understand the science of how it works.

That table looks rather hokey.

Yeah, that table is completely retarded.

Allegedly they did. Why should I trust accounts from people who had the specific agenda of making their own religion look true?

Well, at least she doesn't have a leg up on you on muh contradiction arguments with that kind of thinking.

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"Magician" as in "does tricks", not as in "does actual 'magic'".

Ah, well, no-selling bleeding out and getting stabbed multiple times in public for awhile would be a pretty good trick. Houdini didn't even manage some sharp right hooks.

Pre-modern medical science sucked at knowing when someone was actually dead. As recently as the 1700's someone patented a coffin with a window to the surface and a bell for the 'corpse' to ring if it turns out by accident that they were buried prematurely.

Also, y'know, I'd be a lot more willing to accept that all these things actually happened if there was one person who reported a single one of them that wasn't also a believer in his claims to Messiah status.

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If it actually happened, then any objective observer would agree that it happened, even if they think it was some sort of trick (e.g. wasn't actually dead, etc.)

Yes? And that is exactly what we find. Every person who was a witness to Jesus deeds believed he was who he said he was. Asking for a source that doesn't believe his claim is asinine since anyone who saw Jesus ministry with their own eyes would have known he was the real deal.

First of all, we don't even have any written records directly from people who saw him with their own eyes. And for another thing, if we believe the testimonies about him, why shouldn't we believe comparable testimonies about miracles performed by bodhisattvas etc.?

Gospel of John was was written by the Apostle John and Matthew was written by the Apostle Matthew.

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Which explains why it mixes up Hebrew and Aramaic, I suppose. Despite the fact that Jesus most likely taught primarily in Aramaic, meaning any apostle of his would be familiar with it.

Matthew originally wrote his gospel in Hebrew for a primarily Jewish audience. It was translated to Greek later.

And the Hebrew-language manuscripts, or even fragments, or any evidence whatsoever of this claim, are where?

Eusebius quoting Papias
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias_of_Hierapolis

That's one person, and even the wiki page you linked to mentions different theories about what he means, including the possibility that he was simply mistaken- he was after all still only human.

There is no reason to doubt it. It's perfectly congruent with the facts. The Gospel of Matthew is written from a jewish perspective to jews. It places a high emphasis on showing how Jesus fulfilled messianic prophecy. It makes perfect sense that a gospel written by a jew to jews would be written in Hebrew.

Then again, why is there not even a single manuscript or fragment, or any evidence except for one ambiguous quote?

Because papyrus is a notoriously poor medium for preserving writing over centuries. Finding mostly intact papyri from 2000 years ago is a rare occurrence. It's likely that the Gospel of Matthew once translated into Greek was only preserved in that language as the majority of the people in the region spoke Greek, not Hebrew and the Jews showed little interest in preserving the gospel themselves.

Einstein was not a Christian and believed in an impersonal god with no afterlife

They still screw up. More than one morgue story about a stiff that wasn't quite dead.


Look at it this way; his execution was pretty public. Unless the local authorities went through a big production of faking all the injuries recorded, which they have no reason to, he's probably not going to get up and dust himself off if he's a normal person.


Well, you do, unless you think the apostles are also fictional…but then you'd have to explain their followers, like Polycarp. He's unquestionably historical, and a direct disciple of John by all accounts, so John would certainly have have to had existed as a consequence to take him under his wing. And this line can be developed further, if needed.

That said, we are lucky with Polycarp since he was a dynamo. We certainly know a lot about what happened in that era, but there is also a lot of history from then as well that just simply doesn't exist in a reliable format. See for an example, written records are less available as you go further and further back, even in a society that produced literate educated audiences like the Romans by all accounts tried to do. Which why, for example, the graffiti at Pompeii is so remarkable. It's a preserved slice of their society that we wouldn't have otherwise.

And you're not exactly helping your case here.

Wait, who taught Matthew and them to write?

Hebrews were surprisingly literate according to stuff found on archeological sites. Might've been taught by parents, someone else close, in order to read the Torah - hence he might've only be able to write in Hebrew

How so? Are you talking about the resurrection? His injuries were not likely to lead to a situation where he was mistaken dead, for a start, and you also must account for the tomb being tightly sealed for three days. With that trauma, and more importantly no water or other nutrition to replace the blood lost through the nails and the spear, survival for an ordinary human would have been impossible. But, then, he wasn't ordinary.


In general literacy was not as good as it was in recent times but it was still highly valued, and something that people at various social strata would have had. Obviously rich people would have tended to be more literate, but not exclusively. As such, historical illiteracy is somewhat exaggerated, usually.

Maybe, but I remember they found writings from a common foot soldier (based on location, equipment) in a Hebrew fort from antiquity and there's other evidence than some poor commoners knew how to read and write. Matthew knowing how to write is improbable at worst and, being perhaps the literate one of the disciples (John may have learned Greek later, who knows) was completely reasonable from even a 10% literacy rate (he had 12 disciples, makes sense one could write)

t. didn't even see the video

Why would jews accuse Christians of practicing sorcery if they'd never seen them preform miracles? And if those Christians were just doing illusions why would the be willing to go to their violent, torturous deaths for something they knew was false?

I refer you to Hume's principle that to establish a miracle the evidence and/or testimony must be of such a nature that it would be more miraculous for it to be false than for the supposed miracle to have happened. Hearsay written in ancient books doesn't really fit that criterion for me, though you're welcome to explain how it does.

Hume's principle relies on confirmation bias. He decrees that, because he has not witnessed miracles, he cannot rationally believe in them. That's fine, but it's an illogical argument.

To a rational person, whether a miracle happened or not depends on your perception of reliability of the witnesses and the probability that they were mistaken.

I am not of the opinion that the miracles happened outside of natural laws- what Christ did any perfect person could do… except no one is perfect but Christ. However, there may come a time when we understand how he did what he did.

That doesn't make it any less miraculous. God doing the improbable, when we put our faith in Him, is in itself miraculous and because faith in God is an ingredient in the miraculous, it only stands to reason that the skeptics and atheists will never have experienced it and, even if they saw it performed, would swear it was illusion- favoring their cognitive bias.

My point exactly- to rephrase slightly, one should only conclude a miracle has happened if the witness being mistaken is more improbable than a miracle happening. A miracle being, by definition, a highly improbable thing- probable things aren't considered miracles.

And highly improbably to make an illusion of

Also, this still doesn't explain why so many "magicians" would be willing to go to their violent, tortureous, humiliating deaths for something they know they are faking

Right, but what's I'm saying is Hume ignores the reliability of the witnesses for his own confirmation bias.

Twelve guys all saw Jesus alive at once. One of them definitely touched his wounds. They were sure it was his physical body resurrected, not a vision.

That they saw Jesus up and walking around is clear from like says, their willingness to suffer, preach, and die for the message.

I don't know of any situation that creates such an event besides resurrection. I mean, Jesus was clearly dead and placed in a tomb with a rock bigger than he could move- the Roman's wouldn't have taken him off if they weren't absolutely sure.

So, considering the amount of witnesses who were sure they saw what they saw. The incredibly high improbability that what they saw was something else. The answer is either that they're all lying or Jesus was resurrected.

There's no incentive for the lying- look at what they got from it in temporal terms. Thus, Jesus is risen.

You can teach her that there exists a god but that doesn't guarantee that she will become a Christian. You can also teach her philosophy and remove the lies she has believed but that still doesn't guarantee that she will become a Christian. I don't know if I have the answer that our brother is asking from us but I know that his sister needs a change of heart to accept Christ. She needs faith.

◄ Matthew 18:3 ►
and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

◄ John 6:64-65 ►
However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.) Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father” has granted it to him.

Maybe your idea and the other ideas that everyone has provided here will help with directing her towards the truth. I believe prayer will be effective as well.

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I often wonder how many Christians have used the sufferings of the disciples as reason for why the Bible is true. I feel bad and angry when this happens. It reinforces to me how hardened mens hearts are. As if we need the sacrifice of people's lives to prove that something's true. How many of us are willing to die for the faith? How many of us are willing to die in so that others may believe us?

I feel bad for the disciples but I understand why God would allow them to die painful deaths.

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12500 years ago water levels rose by 100 feet in less than 30 years.
Crippling humanity and wrecking all literate civilized coasties.
I mean, the flood sort of happened.

With aerosol engineering the US can easily make the Tigris and Euphrates dry out.
For real political reasons the prophesy is likely to come true. But it's debatable how far we've advanced in geo-engineering.

We live on a plane. Surrounded by a 60000 long ice wall.
Earth's gravity is due to earth's magnetic field. That's why objects with a magnetic field weigh less than objects of comparable mass, say a charged battery vs and uncharged one.
The bible says the earth is round, but the bible doesn't say the earth is a sphere.

Most women always fall for forced memes. That's how God created them.
You can try and convince your sister of truths like Pythagoras was a freemason but I suggest you spend your time doing something you like doing instead.

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