Is God really actus purus? I heard an Orthodox theologian describe an active potency within God

No it's not

Yes it is. We believe God the Father is the source of the Trinity. You, on the other hand, reduce the Trinity to simple relations that generate the essence.

go to bed jay dyer

Looks like someone doesn't have an argument.

I'm not going to get into an argument over esoteric theological speculations on the metaphysical nature of God. What does matter is our moral choices, and carrying our cross to die to this world with Christ. In practice Orthodox and Catholic spirituality is the same thing and is meant to bring us into eternal communion with God, we don't believe in different God's we believe in the same Christ

Wow, that's the exact same argument Muslims and Arians use against the Trinity, that it's an "esoteric theological speculation."

Everything I just wrote is central to Orthodox theology. Orthodox theology rests of the energies of God because it's essential in Theosis, which is what salvation is. Oh but to you these are just "esoteric". They're not. This is Orthodox theology. You believe in heretical theology.

It absolutely is not. You believe in multiple heresies. You believe in the false doctrines of papal supremacy, original sin, actus purus, the filioque, scholasticism, and a host of other heresies. You are heterodox. True salvation is only found in the Orthodox Church.

The Orthodox actually do believe in papal supremacy but they've separated themselves from the primary bishop in Rome. The schism was a result of pride, albeit on both sides, but there's no longer any reason that we shouldn't reunite Christendom. I don't believe that all Orthodox Christians are schismatic, and they have valid sacraments and spirituality, but you certainly are schismatic and probably an ex protestant who still holds anti Catholicism in your heart.

We have never believed such a false doctrine. We can talk about Papal Primacy, but supremacy is a horrendous heresy. You, the Roman Catholic Church, split off from the Orthodox Church after the papacy was usurped by heretics. Your Pope is a heretic.

The schism was a result of your being heretics for accepting papal supremacy and the filioque. Also, you have no grace in your sacraments, therefore you have no priesthood, and so none of your sacraments are valid.

You are heretical and there is no salvation outside the Orthodox Church.

The papacy is necessary, the proof is in the pudding, the orthodox don't hold councils anymore, they don't evangelize (this is a huge problem), they're a completely stagnant force politically. The primacy of Rome was always understood even before the schism, it's not some made up doctrine by evil westerners. You can believe what you want, but Christ commanded us to all be one, not the national church of serbia vs the greek church vs the copts vs the orientals

We don't need to hold ecumenical councils anymore, everything necessary for the faith can be found in the seven ecumenical councils and the writings of the Church Fathers. But in fact we do hold councils just not ecumenical. You don't have ecumenical councils either since you are heretics and none of your councils bind in anyway.

We evangelize all the time. We have numerous websites devotes to spreading the Orthodox faith:

orthochristian.com/

We even have missionaries:

ocmc.org/

Sure, I'd concede you on that, but certainly never supremacy. St. Cyprian of Alexandria (258 A.D.) actually refutes papal supremacy.

Well then, according to your logic, the Roman Catholic Church isn't one either since you have the Latin Catholic Church, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, the Maronite Catholic Church, the Coptic Catholic Church, etc.

Your definition of universal and one is faulty. The Orthodox Church is one, we are all in full communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople and with each other. We all share the same doctrines. The difference is is that we're not ruled by a heretical tyrant who defends pedophiles like your church.

lol shout out to all my fellow atheists

Get out.

Look I'm glad to see some examples of the Orthodox stepping outside of their own bubble, but it's really not the norm, and it's not completely your guys fault either. In separating with Rome, you've been constantly oppressed by the enemies of the church. Pope Francis isn't the best pope, but that's a people problem, Christ built his perfect church and chooses imperfect messy people to lead it. In the end Christ will prevail, his church will prevail. Popes come and go, the good the bad and the ugly, Francis won't last forever, and liberal Catholics will eventually leave and die off. Reunion has to happen, this prideful arrogance won't work in an increasingly satanic world

Why can't Zig Forums be more like this?

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Converts from Catholicism and Protestantism are usually doing that lol. There are still many differences though.

It's just a matter of philosophical point of view.
If you accept the definition of aristotelian logic and philosophy then God can't be potential but pure act. From another point of view were 'potentia' is differently defined then God can have potentiality.
Don't assume a single point of view and a single definition of words: it's only a matter of the limited understanding and frame of the human mind. If we want to bound God according to human thought it is a form of idolatry, we can try to understand him in different ways the best we can but we should never make an idol of this limited understanding.

There is no negativity towards the human rationality. The negativity is towards the fallen human rationality which is like a reed shaken by the wind (Luke 7:24) where to each argument there is a counter-argument. The doctrine about the papal infallibility was a necessity because in 19th century the Catholic theology was collapsing, falling apart in its own impotence and contradictions. This centralization, however, only delayed the inevitable. Today the traditional Catholic theology exists no more. Nowhere are you going to find it and this happened long before the current liberal pope. The modern Catholic theology is chaos and this is not exaggeration. The only way the next pope can fix this is by proclaiming that all this doesn't matter, we believe in the same God, we believe in love and other slogans with no substance, paving the way to the Antichrist.

The Orthodox preaching is not in the persuasive words of human wisdom, but in shewing of the Spirit and power so that our faith might not stand on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. Yes, we speak wisdom among the perfect, this wisdom, however, is not of this world, neither of the princes of this world that come to nothing. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, a wisdom which is hidden, which God ordained before the world, unto our glory. We have received the Spirit that is of God, so that we may know the things that are given us from God. And we speak about these things, not in the learned words of human wisdom, but in the doctrine of the Spirit. Unfortunately, the sensual man didn't perceive this because it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand.

It is good to confide in the Lord, rather than to have confidence in man.
It is good to trust in the Lord, rather than to trust in princes.
The Lord is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?
If armies in camp should stand together against me, my heart shall not fear.
If a battle should rise up against me, in this will I be confident.
One thing I have asked of the Lord, this will I seek after;
that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life.
That I may see the delight of the Lord, and may visit his temple.

No, we just find usage of fallen human rationality in matters of theology to be retarded. It always ends up with scholastic autism

You should know cataphatic theology has a place. Human reason is a divine gift and is capable of understanding Truth, to a limited degree.
While not making idols of theology and theories we must also accept that thoughts based on logic and non contradiction are not entirely artificial constructs. Else we share the same constructionist nominalist nihilism of postmodernists.

You are implying the crap of jesuit theology and similar modernist heresies are not already condemned. Make no mistake, their heresies are not unrefutable claims opposed to Catholic doctrine, they are already answered and refuted.
The problem is not the impossibility of true doctrine among contradictory theory, the issue is just discipline.

See, here is the problem: this is not the only way to fix this.
A normal Pope like those of the past only need to say: "you know, we actually believe in this, in case you forgot. All your theories are heretical and we already know this, reject them or go away from the Church".

Yeah, I wish I can believe any of this. Sound very idealistic but history show that your theologians sperg just as much as ours over artificial details created by human theories.

Actually, to a great degree. But only when our mind works together with God, not alone, not without the Holy Spirit. Scholastics are modern pelagianists.

If a natural scientist says about his theory that it is the absolute truth, he will be ridiculed. There is some truth in the scientific theories but none of them is the absolute truth. And the same goes when logic is used in the theology. The use of thoughts based on logic in the theology are permitted only when the theologian agrees in everything that has been revealed by God, including to the teachings of the Saints, old or modern, and, in addition, when the theologian acknowledges that everything he has proved but which can not be found in the revelation is uncertain.

We have the continuing Divine revelation.

I wish this could happen. I really wish this could happen, but it won't happen. Nobody cares. Nobody is going to trade the billion lukewarm who like the things the way they are for the few remaining conservative Catholics.

This is reality for those who walk on the path leading to God. Try Orthodox faith plus asceticism and you will see God.

I agree with you.

Because the "Orthodox" widely accept a heretical theology known as Palamism, which introduces a "energy and essence" distinction within the God head, where in God's energy is somehow distinct from his essence but still somehow God.

Now you may be think to yourself that this is utterly absurd and logically impossible, totally contrary to the teachings of the church fathers and the councils of the Church. And you would be 100% correct.

Faith Hope and Charity you nerds

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Heretics cannot have faith in Christ since they believe in a different Christ than the orthodox do.

Do you even understand these words you're using?

- St. Theodore Abu Qurrah

Orthodox

Catholics

This is wrong. Causation in God is attributed to the person of the Father.

No relation whatsoever.

Catholics believe that God's essence and energies are distinct in the economy but not in the Godhead, so that we do not participate in or understand God's essence necessarily by participating in His grace. In other words, they believe in a virtual/formal distinction but not in a real distinction, following Aquinas.

Monopatrism is a heresy according to Catholicism, you know. You can't say as a Catholic that you and the Orthodox have equally correct doctrines.

St Maximus interpreted the filioque to mean the Spirit proienai (progresses) *eternally* through the Son, *thus showing the Son and the Spirit's consubstantiality*.
He did however renounce any notion of causation for the Son.

St Cyprian of Carthage denounced that the Pope had supreme authority and judgment, but believed that communion with Rome was necessary to be part of the Church, because Rome has the primacy from apostolic origins and thus it shows the unity of the Church.
St Firmilian is a better example of anti-papism.

Stop reading papal supremacy into things like "Peter is the rock upon which the Church is built", "Peter holds the keys of heaven", "the Pope is Peter's successor", "the Church of Rome is the See of Peter", and so on, things that the Orthodox do not deny.
Rather, see the other patristic and historical ideas that the rock is the faith of Peter, the rock is Christ, the rock is every believer who confesses the true doctrine, all the apostles hold the keys of heaven, the See of Peter is shared by all bishops…

The Roman tradition may have consistently seen the Pope as the unique guarantor of orthodox doctrine and praxis, the Church of Rome as being impossible to fall into heresy, the orthodoxy and ordination of all bishops to be derived purely from communion with the Pope, and so on, but the Byzantine tradition had a much more balanced view between primacy and collegiality: the Pope fulfills his role as successor of Peter and the coryphaeus of the choir of the bishops, and the bishops follow in response. Ecumenical councils are ecumenical if all 5 of the Pentarchy agree to it, including Rome's final confirmation of the council's ecumenicity. Communion with Rome is essential to belonging to the Church, as long as Rome is Orthodox - if not, the primacy falls upon Constantinople. Rome's practice is not normative, and can be incorrect, but should be respected. The Pope does not have universal jurisdiction but universal right to hear appeals or get involved in a dispute in another church for the sake of peace and unity. All bishops have the keys of heaven, through Peter, but the Pope's primacy is framed by the honor he receives from being directly ordained by Peter (he is not the only bishop in that position however) and by the Church of Rome's patron saints being Peter and Paul.

If you think, as a Catholic, that Orthodox are not heretics, then you deny several of your ecumenical councils (most obviously Florence).

But hey, maybe that attitude is why your popes have joint prayer services with Muslims and Buddhists.

Orthodox are not heretics, our Eastern Catholics brethren share the same faith and it's the Catholic faith expressed differently. The Orthodox churches are in schism, but they were never considered heretics by the church

Where in the King James Version of the Holy Bible does it say any of these things? God is God. Your stupid Cathodox philosophy and heretical church fathers mean nothing.

Palamism is heresy dude, and so is this equality of bishops stuff that the Orthodox espouse.

They might be pretty close to the Catholic faith, but they're still wrong.

You're all wrong and going to hell unless you repent and accept Christ as your lord and savior. Pleas get rid your stupid icons and stop conjuring the dead at your dumb mass and advocating for cannibalism. Thank you. Now repent.

Eastern Catholics agree to Florence. We don't.
Popes have been calling the Orthodox heretics since the 12th century, you know this, right?

The equality of bishops stuff is also what Catholics believe…
You don't believe that the Pope is a grade above a bishop. The Pope is a bishop, he is ordained like a bishop, his special charisma as head of the Church and successor of St Peter does not give him a clerical status other than that of a bishop. Even Pope Leo considered the apostles and Peter to be equal in a way.

Equality of rank does not mean identical prerogatives for all bishops though, but again the Orthodox wouldn't say that "Patriarch", "Archbishop", "Metropolitan", etc. are honorary titles devoid of any functionality.

None of this is philosophy, all of this is revelation. Philosophy is only useful insofar as it allows us to put words on concepts.
You are the hellbound heretic if you reject that Jesus is God who became incarnate as man, with all that this implies.

Show me where the word "actus purus" appears in the Bible? Can you show me where the word "active potency" appears in the Bible? Point to it and I will believe in these things. But you cannot, because they are stupid philosophy.

Since I am saved I cannot be damned. You are not saved because you belong to a pagan religion. I believe Christ is the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, who incarnated as a human. This is what Christians have always believed. Christians do not believe that Mary is a goddess though. Christians do not conjure up the dead or make vain repetitions. And you know what? We don't follow stupid philosophy and traditions of men like you do.

Your caricature of the Catholic faith is as ridiculous as your theology.

lol, you can't do theology without philosophy, or much of anything else for that matter.

Also I'll show you where "actus purus" is in the bible, if you might show me where sola fide or sola scriptura is in the bible k thx.

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...

It seems you can't show me verse with sola fide or sola scripture in it verbatim; but instead give me verses that allegedly point to the philisophical/theological construct.

If your standard of evidence is no longer so stringent, I can most definitely point out "actus purus" in the bible:

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One."

Also, it seems you forgot one verse that actually says by faith alone verbatim:

James 2:24

24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

huh weird.

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I'm not a Catholic. This is not my problem.
Bring up an issue that's actually relevant to Orthodox theology. Maybe the essence-energy distinction? Scripturally it would be better said as the distinction between God's residence in Heaven (which is stated throughout the Bible) and God's existence through all things (which is stated throughout the Bible), best shown by what happened at the Transfiguration.

So you finished your race? That's funny, Paul waited to be imprisoned and about to be martyred to make that claim. Until then he did not consider his race to be over.

Congrats, then you're probably not a heretic, although there still needs to be clarification on what you mean by this.

When your talking points come from the Quran, that's when you know you took a wrong turn somewhere.

Based and redpilled.