Jew here, im up for respectful debate

i like christians. i really do. there is a lot of beutiful things about Christianity while i do disagree with some major parts.

for a long time a considered christians to be our comrades and friends, especially when fighting against the menace of islam.
i also know most christians are intelligent and compassionate so i hope this debate will go smoothly without vulgarity or vile generalizations.

the thing which irks me the most and i want to debate about is the notorious accusations that the jews killed christ and they are guilty of it to this very day.

now not only this accusation led to very incredibly immoral deeds in the pas. it's logic is completely broken.

so will analyze this is the scripture that painted all jews are "christ-killers" and attempt to deconstruct it and prove it false:
mathew 27:24

im sorry but if you know some history of Judeah you know this scripture just doesn't make sense.

Pilate is widly known as a cruel, corrupt and vinicitive Roman prefect. he was notorious for ordering his legionaries to assault jewish protests, to beat and and even kill the protestors.

the idea that this vile man would suddenly yield to a jewish crowd that demands death of someone who deems innocent is outrageous

furthermore, he absolute power in Judeah only he could carry out a death sentance. no one else. him sending Jesus off to be crucified and then washing his hands to proclaim his innocence is absurd hypocricy.

the idea that Pilate would find Jesus innocent is absurd as well.
Pilate didn't hesitate to kill those who got in him and his greed's way.
Jesus was a clear threat to him as he was anounced as "king of the jews" and was fighting against the corruption in the temple.
corruption that Pilate gained great profit from.
Pilate had more than enough personal and greedy resons to kill Christ. he did not consider him "innocent.

mathew 27:25

again. as someone who knows history of the jewish people. this scripture makes no sense.

A. not a single jew would ever want their children to carry the burden of their sins. not. a single. one.
there is not a single moment in history or jewish literature where a jews says that they are ok with guilt of their sins to be passed down to future genarations. except this one scripture.

B. god himself states that people will never be punished for the crimes of their fathers, and judges are banned for delivering capital punishment to the sons of the criminals.

yet this line basically says that ALL jews are guilty of killing christ FOREVER.
do i really need to explain why its a terrible idea?
it's like saying all christians are guilty for the crimes of nazi-germany.

so please there is no need for hatred between us. we all can work togrther for a better future

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interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2017/50-years-illegal-settlements/index.html
newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-map-of-israeli-settlements-that-shocked-barack-obama
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_curse
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

He says while Israel continues to scheme over how to displace and remove the native Christians and give their lands and homes to Jews

Then why are jews anti Logos and spiritually kill Jesus to this day?

Why? At the time his position with the Caesar was bad and if another riot broke out due to the Jews, that would be another black mark on his record. He had his own self interest out here.

That is correct, I think I wouldn't want to taint my children in sin either.
That being said, according to what I've read over here, Jews think that Jesus Christ was a blasphemer and that their judgement was correct. So it should be clear that the jews in that verse did not think they were committing any sin, but rather proud of it.

Okay, I'm a Jewish Christian, so I know my stuff here, and OP is full of pilpul.
He was a Roman governor that governed like any other Roman governor of the time. Just because he killed Jews doesn't mean he was any more "vile" than the governors that saw the deaths of other conquered peoples. In fact, we get the view from the Bible that Pilate was not very interested in dealing with the situation the Jews presented him here, and he actually handled himself with a lot of tact given the historical tension between Romans and conquered peoples, but especially with Jews who tend to be some of the most stubbornly nationalistic people to have ever lived. The gospels illustrate Pilate as a man of process, who followed the standard process expected of a man with judicial authority, and the process found that Jesus was innocent of the accusations the Jews brought against Him.
This is a spiritual sin that has been passed down from generation to generation of Jews because every new generation of practicing Jew follows the tradition of Judaism that evolved out of the Pharasaic branch, which has codified in the Talmud the doctrine that Jesus Christ, the Son of God - the very same God you claim to worship - is burning in excrement in hell. Not only have you sinned gravely in the eyes of God by rejecting YOUR OWN GOD'S Son, you also continue to practice a corrupted faith that declares that your own God's Son burns in hell. Even pagan heresies did not rise to that level of betrayal of their own deities. You may not have physically killed Jesus, but in spirit you have already done so. If you were present in the time of Jesus, you would have been among the crowd calling for His crucifixion.

But don't let that stop you from believing in His Name. Even Talmudic Jews can repent and believe in Jesus Christ, and be given eternal life. God's wrath endures for generations, but He is quick to forgive. You know this from the history of our people, who sinned again and again and again against God, but always found forgiveness in atonement. God will write righteousness on your heart should you repent and believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Lord.

Because they threatened Roman sovereignty in the province
One more rebellion and Caesar would put him to the sword
He did not hold exclusive power. The king and the sanhedrin had soldiers. And again, he gave them what they demanded to avert a rebellion
What's really absurd is you think you can convince us Jews dindu nuffin just by calling scripture absurd
How did Jesus do that again? I don't seem to recall all those times He ran afoul of the Romans, I think it was always the Jews getting pissed at Him
John 18:33-37
The corruption didn't have to do with Pilate, it had to do with the pharisees, aka the JEWS
They didn't consider it a sin, what are you retarded?
But you're completely unrepentant for the sin of God's blood. The whole point of this thread is a red herring to justify the murder of the Lord. You've yet to advance an alternative or even deny the Jews were responsible.
There is no better future apart from the gospel of Jesus Christ. Convert schlomo, or God's curses against your people for their apostasy will not cease

Can't you people argue without hostilities?

...

1. Where do you think you are?
2. Repent.
3. If you can't repent, go back to reddit.

Jews and Muslims are cooperating to destroy Christendom and this is what you say? You are our enemy.

Pilate was indeed a very cruel legislator, with not much respect for the Jews. It's not because he proclaimed himself innocent of Jesus's death that he was innocent - on the contrary, he was a hypocrite, and even if he personally thought Jesus was innocent, it means nothing if he still ended up getting him beaten up then killed. On the contrary, it makes his sin so much worse - he thought Jesus was innocent and still was directly responsible for getting him beaten up then killed. The author of Matthew is a Jew himself and knows that Pilate is not a saint, he does not portray Pilate as thinking Jesus is innocent so that Pilate may be forgiven for getting him killed.

We're dealing with a crowd of basic religious people excited and offended by something. I would say that not a single Christian would normally support LGBT rights, and yet I'm sure that a whole crowd of them would manifest to do so if they were motivated to. Your average religious person does not practice their religion to the best they can.

People are not punished by God for an offence they did not commit. However, not a single Jew who has ever read the scriptures is innocent of rejecting Christ and thus of participating in their forefathers' deicide by adhering to their heresy rather than embracing the Messiah.


Psalm 139:21-22

Heretics like you Jews are not only outside of the Church, but you also blaspheme God daily with your heresies. And worse, the race of the Jews is cursed and this curse can only be lifted by baptism. I will much rather cooperate with a pagan, a Buddhist, a Taoist, even a Satanist, than with heretics like Jews, Muslims, Filioquists, Monophysites, and so on.

I will add something - your objections boil down to "it doesn't make sense from a Jewish perspective". But the gospel of Matthew was written by a Jew, for Jews. In fact, both Matthew and Hebrews are specifically Jewish texts, written by Jews for Jews (unlike other texts of the NT that are either written by a Gentile for Gentiles - Luke, Acts - or written by a Jew for a mixed audience - basically every other text). If they do not make sense to you, it's because 1st century Judaism did not look like the Judaism you have in mind.

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I'm posting here for two years already

get off from your prelest.

I didn't think it was possible to fit that much pilpul into a single post.
Congratulations OP, now come to accept Jesus as your savior.

Hello (1) and done, we have IDs here.

You people have no honor so co-operation isn't only undesirable, but downright insane.

...

you…do realize that proxies change here, right?

You're really bad at lying. Lying is a sin, user.

IDs change from thread to thread. Also, in a

Being Jewish = blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Repent or you will burn in Hell for all Eternity.

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I don't think it is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That was a more specific thing Jesus pointed out that particular Pharisees did. But being a non-Christian Jew is blasphemy against the Son, and God will forgive the repentant for that. The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, on the other hand.

You got blown out quickly. Where are your rebuttals?

What a classic, two-faced Jewish sentence; "I know most blacks are a smart and peaceful people, so I hope I don't get insulted or murdered when walking by them.".
Don't twist words. Speak honestly about your feelings towards Christians.
Yes, many Christians were subverted into fighting and dying in wars to expand the territory of a Christ-denying people. Many still are.
"Israel is a tiny nation full of white Christians that's being persecuted by the surrounding Muslim nations", my Boomer father used to tell me. Like other pro-Jew Christians, I have the feeling he knows nothing about Judaism.
It's spelled out in the scripture, my friend. You know, the scripture your ancestors rejected and the scripture you reject to this very day? The blood will be on your hands as long as you deny Christ.
Stop following your false religion - which is the equivalent of a child not getting their way, throwing a tantrum, and writing mean things about their parents in a scrapbook their parents gave them - and repent.

He needs to ask his imam friend for help. Give him a few minutes.

Respectfully: turn from your worship of the created and worship Our Creator, Our Holy Father in heaven. Leave the synagogue of Satan. Take as many "jews" with you as you can, turn as many to the light as possible.

Antisemitism has no disadvantages for humans (which jews are not), only advantages.
Philosemitism has no advantages for humans, only disadvantages.

They're still descended from Adam, and therefore human. See: the Bible. OP is still being deceptive, though.

As much as I want to believe this, Jews who legitimately convert to Christianity are our brothers in Christ. I still don't want them living in our nations, but would support them in making Jerusalem Christian again.

Eyup

BULL S**T! we do not displace anyone. especially christians who enjoy our protection.

what is this crass and arrogant strawman? not accepting him as a lord-and-savior instantly is considered as bad as killing him?
this is bogus


WRONG.
A. Pilate governed over Judeah AFTER ceaser was killed. they had no relations at all.
Caesar died in 44.BC Pilate ruled over Judea from 36-26 BC.
also, there were no jewish riots prior. jewish resentment of roman rule only started with Pilate.

according to Judaism, jesus was indeed a blasphemer. bible clearly dictates that there is only ONE god. jesus claiming he is the son of god is 100% blasphemy and goes completely against the old testament.
although according to historic texts I read. he never considered himself as son of god. that's something that his followers were saying.
so I doubt if he truly was a blasphemer. because he deeply cared for the jewish people.

...

and no. rejecting Jesus as my lord and savior doesnt' make me an evil heretic.

I can recognize his contribution to the world without worshipping him like a pegan god.

I did not ask him to get crucified for me 2000 years ago.
god explicity states that he is merciful and forgiving.
i do not need jesus because i can pray directly to god to have my sins forgiven, because god knows i will try to not do them again and that i am a flawed human

...

Holy shit, you actually are retarded

I don't care. His blood is upon you and will be until you are washed of it because you choose to be. That said:

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Okay you really lost it there buddy.

If the Trinity is blasphemy then explain Judges 3:10:
"The Spirit of the Lord came upon him and he judged Israel"
You mean the lord came over to judge Israel?
Also, double wammy: This is a passage of God judging Israel for being unfaithful

Oh great.

lol…

interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2017/50-years-illegal-settlements/index.html

newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-map-of-israeli-settlements-that-shocked-barack-obama

You sound new to me

I never saw Pilate as an innocent. His washing his hands of Christ's execution is hypocritical and cowardly since he still had the Romans crucify him. Also if Pilate was so vindictive towards Jews, and the bulk of Jewish leaders hated Christ, consider that he may have acted as if he liked Christ simply to irk the other Jews. The same reason he ordered a sign be placed over the cross declaring Christ 'king of the Jews', to the Jews' chagrin. In modern parlance we would call that an 'epic troll'.
The Jews calling for Christ's blood to be on their children is only calling for a sin to be passed on to their children if you believe killing Christ was a sin. But they did not believe it to be a sin, as they thought he was a wicked sorceror. Anyway it doesn't matter what the Jews said, Biblically God does not curse infinite generations of a people for their ancestors' misdeeds, even if their ancestors requested it. I do not think Jews are under a curse. God views them like any other nation with respect to salvation. He is certainly glad when they convert, due to their former favored status.

Pilate was indeed cruel at the beginning, so the Jews complained to governor of Syria who then reported him to Caesar Tiberius. After that Pilate mellowed considerably because he was treading on very thin ice.

Caesar is a title, not a name. I thought Jews were supposed to be smart?

Are you a Jew? I ask because you don't have the same ID as the OP. If so, you have a very poor understanding of how atonement works according to your own religion's doctrine in the Torah. If not, you're literally NPC-tier in religious education. Also, here:
You contradict yourself. If you are a flawed human, then you will sin again. That is why we need Jesus. With the shedding of Jesus's blood and justifying faith in Him, the rules of atonement are eternally satisfied and you will be forgiven.

Depends if the price is right, shlomo.

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Stop blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Accept Jesus Christ as a messiah or you are going to burn in hell for eternity.
After experiences from Russia and Eastern Europe for 100 years, no thanks.
For Christians out here: Read A. Solzhenistyn, Learn about Holodomor

It does

It has never worked in history but yeah…perhaps you're the elected one to do the job.
kek
Won't happen.

Stop shilling and most importantly stop swearing. This is a Christian board. Nobody is interested in your degraded language.

meant for

Literally anti-christ lol

Aaaaaaaaand we're off … !!

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shut le heck up prot
go back to you're huwish masters

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Actually it started as soon as the Romans formally took over. The Zealots formed in 6ad as soon as Quirinius's tax reform effectively declared the Herodian Tetrarchy to be a Roman province and not a client-state, and cemented direct Roman rule, and the sicarii were getting stabby a little while later when "jaw-jaw" didn't seem to be getting the campaign for liberation anywhere. The Zealots were from the moment of their founding opposed to Roman rule and were instrumental in the later revolt that ended any form of Jewish state for the next 1,878 years.
Pilate didn't have much to do with it.
Judas of Galilee revolted long before Pilate was around.

(pic unrelated)

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Are you by chance implying we should not believe the apostles? Because you seem to say St. Matthew lied when writing it.


This

yes this is exactly what im saying.

historical documents and contradict these time and time again

… You do realise Caesar is a title user, don't you? Julius wasn't the only Caesar of the Roman empire

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He wasn't wrong

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Why aren't there any St. John Chrysostom quotes in this image? He wrote the definitive Christian writing against the Jews.

You're not a jew, kike.

reminder

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_curse

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I'll historically document my foot up your ass fag!
U know where u are punk? Stuff like that gonna get your ass banned forever.
How dare you say the apostles lied?
Here's one for you. How many time did the jews lied? How many times did they trick people? How many times have they been exiled from countries?
You piece of garbage!

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History is hard, i know. Go on and play with your crayons

smoloko made this image idk why they didn't put any st john chrysostom

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Sadly, this thread didn't go over so calmly but I wanted to point something out. You seem fixated on this blood guilt because you seem to see it as the primary source of Jewish persecution, but this is in error. The causes of such persecution have had very little to do with this, which is simply a red herring. Also, obviously, whether it truly became a real live curse would not be up to any Christian to decide. I think has it right.

Stopped reading there tbh

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The apostles didn't lie. They were there and were witnesses to those events. The jews distorted the truth about Jesus' miracles and they do it now (i am talking about you).

This will be funny.
What else did the apostles lie about? Come on. What other lies do those stupid christians believe?

distorted Jesus' miracles then and they do it now….

Hyrcanus and Aristobulus both in their own way tried to cozy up to the parthians. Herod did nothing wrong! Make Iudaea Roman again!

T. Flavius Iuvenus Romanus

The understanding presented on good friday anymore is that we all killed him, and this is a fundamental thing to understand when considering vicarious atonement. When christ crucified says "forgive them, for they know not what they do", he speaks not only of the romans or the jews, but to all men in all places as well, just as when he is offered at golgotha he is also offered on every altar in all places and all times.

The jews condemned him, pilate a roman mocked him cynically, likely ethic greek roman auxilliae beat him…

We all killed christ.

Jewish deicide isnt a modern reason to get angry at you lot. Youre a competing religion, and zionist politics hurt the arab churches in palestine. Those two points alone constitute the root of anti-judaism.

An attempt was made.

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