Are these idolatry?
Are these idolatry?
Jordan Stewart
Adam Russell
1st 3 no, last one yes
biblestudytools.com
Ryder Bennett
The first three must for Protestants to be consistent. At best only Lutherans and Anglicans can be consistent on this matter, the rest isnt.
The first three pictures are proof of this, oddly enough when monuments are saluted and given gestures of honor, it isnt idolatry but when one does the same to honor heroes of faith, it is
Making the "but they dont pray to dead vets" dont count, as clearly venerating icons convey respect too and prayer to saints can be done without the venerative postures
Angel Scott
‘We bombed you to save you’ – NATO head Stoltenberg speaks about 1999 bombings on visit to Serbia
Although many people in Serbia hold “painful” memories of NATO’s 1999 bombing of their country, it was, in fact, done precisely to protect them from their own government, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said in Belgrade.
He was answering questions about the bombing and about the NATO campaign against the government of the former Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic, during a meeting with the students of Belgrade University.
“I stressed that we did this to protect civilians and to stop the Milosevic regime,” Stoltenberg said, as quoted by the local media, claiming locals have painful memories of the events.
So NATO wants the alliance and Belgrade to “look into the future.” Stoltenberg also boasted of an “excellent relationship” between NATO and Serbia, adding that the military bloc “respects” Belgrade’s decision not to join the alliance. Still, he maintained that NATO wants to be Serbia’s “partner.”
rt.com
Sebastian Gonzalez
Go ahead and click that link I posted, champ
Ethan Myers
The link you posted says nothing about the acceptance of respecting dead soldiers. If any, history shows Calvin to despise such a thing. Proven by how Oliver Cromwell had a disdain for the royal parliamentary mace. If any, those are superstitious to Calvin
Austin Barnes
...
Lincoln Davis
THIS BOARD IS IDOLATRY
Jeremiah Rogers
Nope. This does not work, as that only shows Calvin contradicting himself. Because if people can see themselves as paying reverences to dead soldiers and even their monuments and graves as not worship, they sure can easily see the veneration of saintly relics as not worship. So thus Calvin contradicts himself here.
Bentley Lopez
And also the very context shows what "civil honour" is being referred to isnt the honouring of momuments or tombs of dead soldiers but simply the respect to authoritative figures like the king. This is proven by Calvin's use of the example of Peter turning down honour rendered to him through prostration. This says nothing about honouring the dead
Elijah Walker
Now I have heard everything. Anyway, no. I've never ever heard ANYONE until this very moment say that graves are idols.
Well, if Calvin can't keep it straight on a basic level like this then who cares about that whinger.
Cooper Rivera
That's the point, it's as dumb as calling icons and statues representing Jesus and the saints idols
Caleb Hernandez
But that is literal idols of spirits in heaven
Hunter Barnes
You do know what idolatry means, and the reason it's wrong, right?..
Bentley Scott
Uhh ya… do you?
en.m.wikipedia.org
Ayden Campbell
I met a seer,
Passing the hues and objects of the world,
The fields of art and learning, pleasure, sense,
To glean eidolons.
Put in thy chants said he,
No more the puzzling hour nor day, nor segments, parts, put in,
Put first before the rest as light for all and entrance-song of all,
That of eidolons.
Ever the dim beginning,
Ever the growth, the rounding of the circle,
Ever the summit and the merge at last, (to surely start again,)
Eidolons! eidolons!
Ever the mutable,
Ever materials, changing, crumbling, re-cohering,
Ever the ateliers, the factories divine,
Issuing eidolons.
Lo, I or you,
Or woman, man, or state, known or unknown,
We seeming solid wealth, strength, beauty build,
But really build eidolons.
The ostent evanescent,
The substance of an artist's mood or savan's studies long,
Or warrior's, martyr's, hero's toils,
To fashion his eidolon.
Of every human life,
(The units gather'd, posted, not a thought, emotion, deed, left out,)
The whole or large or small summ'd, added up,
In its eidolon.
The old, old urge,
Based on the ancient pinnacles, lo, newer, higher pinnacles,
From science and the modern still impell'd,
The old, old urge, eidolons.
The present now and here,
America's busy, teeming, intricate whirl,
Of aggregate and segregate for only thence releasing,
To-day's eidolons.
These with the past,
Of vanish'd lands, of all the reigns of kings across the sea,
Old conquerors, old campaigns, old sailors' voyages,
Joining eidolons.
Densities, growth, facades,
Strata of mountains, soils, rocks, giant trees,
Far-born, far-dying, living long, to leave,
Eidolons everlasting.
Exalte, rapt, ecstatic,
The visible but their womb of birth,
Of orbic tendencies to shape and shape and shape,
The mighty earth-eidolon.
All space, all time,
(The stars, the terrible perturbations of the suns,
Swelling, collapsing, ending, serving their longer, shorter use,)
Fill'd with eidolons only.
The noiseless myriads,
The infinite oceans where the rivers empty,
The separate countless free identities, like eyesight,
The true realities, eidolons.
Not this the world,
Nor these the universes, they the universes,
Purport and end, ever the permanent life of life,
Eidolons, eidolons.
Beyond thy lectures learn'd professor,
Beyond thy telescope or spectroscope observer keen, beyond all mathematics,
Beyond the doctor's surgery, anatomy, beyond the chemist with his chemistry,
The entities of entities, eidolons.
Unfix'd yet fix'd,
Ever shall be, ever have been and are,
Sweeping the present to the infinite future,
Eidolons, eidolons, eidolons.
The prophet and the bard,
Shall yet maintain themselves, in higher stages yet,
Shall mediate to the Modern, to Democracy, interpret yet to them,
God and eidolons.
And thee my soul,
Joys, ceaseless exercises, exaltations,
Thy yearning amply fed at last, prepared to meet,
Thy mates, eidolons.
Thy body permanent,
The body lurking there within thy body,
The only purport of the form thou art, the real I myself,
An image, an eidolon.
Thy very songs not in thy songs,
No special strains to sing, none for itself,
But from the whole resulting, rising at last and floating,
A round full-orb'd eidolon.
Austin Bennett
Idolatry against god is the worship of anything created over the one true God, modern consumerist culture is a prime example of idolatry. An idol doesn't have to be religious, and Catholic and Orthodox icons/staue's/imagry isn't idolatrous, nor is an image of Christ idolatry because Christ himself is the revealed God incarnate.
Justin Robinson
Did Christ sin when he become incarnate? do we commit idolatry when we pray to him?
Leo Gray
No, because he is God, and actually in heaven.
Depends, are you going to "venerate" it and make up prayers for a hunk of stone that marks a grave?
Not quite right….
Levi Price
and man who was on earth :p
Jace Morgan
Yes, God said not to make an image of anything on the earth of heaven. Also, venerating tombstones is pagan. To an extent, even loyalty to a secular government is pagan.
James Miller
They are saluting and kissing it
Benjamin Garcia
You can express gratitude to someone without necessarily worshipping them
Matthew Gutierrez
What about expressing that gratitute by venerating icons?
Justin Hill
The people in the first 3 pictures aren't asking the dead to relay messages to God like the people in the last picture are.
Just pray to God directly.
Gavin Foster
They are honouring the dead. The "they are not asking the dead for so and so" point is redundant given the sheer fact that you dont reverence the altar or icons to salute saints
Brayden Adams
the relevance of which to this thread is . . .
lel
Thomas Hill
Imagine conflating two things in order to justify ones own desires
Asher Bailey
Except it isnt conflating. It is literally the same.
Protestants try to avoid the implication of inconsistency by claiming that no one supplicates a dead soldier for intercession or regard him with praise. But this is a misrepresentation of OP who simply focuses on the act of honourable gestures, both of which no doubt is meant to honour the subjects involved.
So either Protestants denounce these civil ceremonials and be consistent, allow no condemnation of venerating the altar, cross or icon or be consistent with themselves and do it so that they can now use the excuse they so desparately want to employ
Asher Gonzalez
The first three shows respect towards dead, the fourth is just liturgy. None of those is idolatry. None of them (probably) worships the stones. Prots talking about idolatry without even knowing what idolatry is…it's always a terrible cringe.
I'll just leave this here: I get that americans want to honor their dead….but seriously if you;re american rather ask yourself why those people died…what for?
Your empire is evil incarnated. All those wars you created and supported were absolutely disgusting. I feel bad for your dead but I wish you no luck in your recent wars because you fight for evil, not for God. There is nothing I despise more than american military claiming they fight for "good" or for "their country" It;s all just lies.
Wake up americans. It's been quite a ride so do not be surprised europeans generally do not like you because of the cancerous influence you have had.
God bless and good luck in you
Aaron Wilson
*in your struggle
Cooper Butler
I'm not even sure anymore but I think Europe is 70%+ heresy. What say do they have in this?
Otherwise, your post is okay I suppose.
Dylan Mitchell
JW should be banned. You aren't Christian.