Saint Serapim of Serov’s Daily Rule of Prayer

Very easy, any Orthodox or even Roman Catholic could do it in less then 3 minutes (from: stjohndc.org/en/orthodoxy-foundation/lessons/prayer-rule-st-seraphim-sarov)


Fr. Seraphim said “Keeping this rule, it is possible, to reach Christian perfection, for the three prayers indicated are the foundation of Christianity. The first, as the payer given [to us] by Christ Himself, is the model for all prayers. The second was brought from Heaven by the Archangel to greet the Virgin Mary, the Mother of Our Lord. The Symbol [of our faith] contains in brief all of the salvific dogmas of the Christian Faith.”

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Why should I ask the Virgin Mary to have mercy on me? Is she going to save me?
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"

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This is paganism

And then these same people say Cathodox shit up our board. OP and everyone else actually concerned with these prayers should ignore these posters.

First guy’s got a legitimate question, second is a shitposter.

I am sorry that I am going to steal this thread but I am Orthodox and I want to understand the protestant way of thinking so I am going to ask some questions.

Suppose the following scenario. I live in some old kingdom and I need a favor of the king. So I go to the mother of the king, I tell her about my needs, she goes to the king, her son and the king does what I need. My question is this: who is saving me: the king or the kings mother? (My answer is both.)

Now, I understand that some (all?) protestants do not think the relations between Virgin Mary and the Christ are analogous to the my example with the king and his mother. I am not going to argue. My question is this: suppose (even if only for a moment) that my example is applicable to Virgin Mary her Son. If this is so, then do you think that in this case it will be ok to say the prayer "O Most Holy Theotokos, Have Mercy on Me"? If not, then why not?

My final question is this: does the Bible say that my example is not applicable to Virgin Mary and her Son? If your answer is 'Yes', then can you give me some references? (Please don't shower me with tons of citations, just give me what you think will be the clearest Biblical evidence in my view, not in your view.) If, on the other hand, your answer is 'No', then does this mean you deny the prayers to the Mary not because you are certain that this is bad, but rather because you are not certain that Mary has the ability to help?

Do you ask living people to pray for you? Why don't you do the same with those who are now with Christ in the heavens?

To me it seems unnecessary. Are we not able to come to Christ directly, with faith like children?

Your example seems like the king is some arrogant guy who won't listen to you, only to the people close to him, so that to reach him you need to ask his mother first. Not Jesus at all.

Interestingly I was thinking something on similar lines: in the various litany like loreto, only titles for God are asked "have mercy on me" whereas all titles for Mary are "pray for us" . Is it theologically acceptable to ask Theotokos to have mercy?

In your example the scenarios are not analogous. If I am asking the queen mother to speak to her son for me, even if it is to ask for mercy on my behalf, I am not going to ask her to have mercy on me, because mercy is not hers to give.
Well, it does not say it is applicable, which is enough, but Mary holds no authority in heaven because she is the mother of Jesus Christ, not God the Son. He was king long before she was created.
If it were so little, it would be the grave sin of necromancy, and we are forbidden to commune with the dead. However, the practice of the Cathodox is much more, as their devotion shows they do not merely ask for prayers, but pray to the saints themselves on account of an innate power which is falsely believed to subsist in them. The concept of "patron saints" betrays this fact. I recall an instance where my Roman Catholic mother was helping her Roman Catholic brother move, and they sought out the statue of some saint to bury in his yard for help in the sale or something. How is this superstition different from pagan worship of their patron gods?

You yourself can have mercy, can you not?

I am a sinner. I make sins, sometimes unknowingly, sometimes by negligence and sometimes I am like insane man and I sin intentionally. In order to "fix" myself, I am looking for any help I can get. I ask God for help, I ask Christ for help, I ask the Holy Spirit for help, I ask Virgin Mary for help, I ask the saints, I ask my priest to pray for me, I ask my fellow Christians to pray for me, and I give alms because my heart always looks at my "treasures" and I want my heart to look not to the Earth but to the heavens. I don't know if it is necessary to ask Virgin Mary for help but I do know that I need help and I do know that Christ gives me all the help I need when I don't disdain his mother. My passions mitigate, my indifference becomes replaced by eagerness, the wounds of my soul heal.

What is the protestant opinion about the following words by Ap. John: "If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death." Isn't God merciful? Then why does Ap. John want us to ask from God forgiveness for our brother?

The Orthodox answer to the above question is this: God is merciful but he doesn't want us to be passive participants in the salvation because this is not beneficial for us and God wants for us only the best. Is he going to forgive our sins if the saints don't pray for us? Well, this is wrong question because the saints pray for us only because God wants them to pray for us. God wants that we all – saints and ordinary people – pray for everybody so that we are saved together by our mutual efforts. We are not saved individuals and thats the real meaning of the word Church – Church means togetherness.

Yes, the great King is not an arrogant guy. However, I try not to be an arrogant guy too. Because of my mistakes my King has been beaten, spit upon, crucified. So standing far off, I would not even lift up my eyes to heaven, but I beat my breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’. (Luke 18:13) Knowing that my King is merciful I approach his house with my head bowed down. And there, before the doors, I see some beggars. These beggars are the guardians that the heavenly King has installed to guard his house. The guardians tell me that I am not permitted to enter the house of the merciful King if I am not merciful. I try to be merciful, then I enter the house. There I meet Apostle Paul and I say: "Please have mercy on Me, please intercede for me before the King". And Apostle answers: "Don't be afraid. I was a sinner and I persecuted the friends of the King but he made me a new man. He will make you a new man too, he will save you from your sins and you will be free." Then I see the Holy Mother and I say "O Most Holy Theotokos, save me!". And she says: "You have the goodwill of me and my Son. Don't be despairing. The heavens exult when a sinner repents". Finally, I meet my Lord and he says "You are forgiven. Now come and eat my body and drink my blood so that your passions may heal. See, you are well now! Sin no more and be victorious, so that nothing worse may happen to you."


The mothers give bodies to their sons and yet nobody will say they are mothers of bodies. The mothers are mothers of persons. Mary is mother of Jesus and Jesus is the same person as God the Son, therefore, Mary is mother of God the Son, incarnated. She didn't give him divinity, he gave him humanity but it is the same person that is both God and Man.

The word "authority" seems inappropriate to me too. She has found grace with God, not authority.

The Orthodox Church does not have a doctrine of patronage on the part of Saints. The concept of patronage is informal. For example St. martyr Boniface of Tarsus has been a drinker so naturally people suffering from alcoholism or drugs will turn to him – not because he is "officially" protector of such people.

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Of course, but He did not cease to have that divine nature, so inasmuch as Christ is God, she does not relate to Him as mother.
Then why should we go to her instead of He who alone can set us free?
And that's idolatry. They're turning to him for help instead of Jesus, they're setting him up as a false idol

The human mothers provide humanity to their sons, they, however, are not mothers of bodies and souls. They are mothers of persons. Mary is mother of the Christ, there are no reservations about this in the Bible. If, however, we reject that the one person of Christ is at once God and human, we fall into the error of speaking of two sons. We must not divide the one Lord Jesus Christ into two Sons. The Scripture has not said that the Word united to himself the person of man, but that the Word was made flesh. This expression, however, “the Word was made flesh,” can mean nothing else but that he partook of flesh and blood like to us; he made our body his own, and came forth man from a woman, not casting off his existence as God, or his generation of God the Father, but even in taking to himself humanity, he remained God.

We do not hesitate to call the holy Virgin Theotokos, not in the sense that the divine nature of the Word took its origin from the holy Virgin, but in the sense that he took his holy body, gifted with a rational soul, from her. Yet, because the Word is hypostatically united to this body, one can say that the Word was truly born according to the flesh.


Ok, I am trying to understand this. What is the definition of idolatry? For example when we ask the prayers of living people is this idolatry? (I am not arguing here. I want to know how you interpret the word "idolatry".)

Every time you pray the Rosary a protestant cries.

Reminder to pray the Rosary every day

OP here. The part everyone is so hung up about actually says on the webpage cited “most holy theotokos SAVE me a sinner”. Not that it changes the main crux of the argument, which I’ll explain here:

Yes, Mary is not god, not by any means. Yet because of her sinless life, she took on the traits of devinity, just as we all will when Christ returns (1 Corinthians 15:52-53). She does not only meekly ask her son for assistance, but rather has been gifted power to fight the devil herself, although by no means alone.

Any honor she is given is warranted. She is the Queen of Heaven, the Mother of the Martyrs, Princess above the Angels.

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I mean you could take the prayer advice of a guy who managed to get so close to God that the Holy spirit shone from him and performed miracles on a daily basis or you could not.

We shouldn't let memes, however, obscure the criticalness of a habit such as the Rosary, thus robbing some of an immeasurable boon to their own lives. Protestants should realize the essence of the Rosary does not consist of mere repetition but of deliberate meditation. The Rosary in short is a form of mental prayer, a powerful type of prayer I urge all of them to thoroughly study and put into practice themselves.

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yeah, what of it? sure most of us call it the angelic salutation, but it is practically the same prayer, so what are you trying to say?

Thank you for sharing the prayer rule of a righteous man - it has already helped me.

Im protestant and I learned the rosary when I was 14 and use to do it daily. But remember all protestants are crazy and hateful ;) They are the literal minority controlling this board and silencing others! alright sorry sorry this probably isnt the right moment for sarcasm..

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Yes ed, "hail Mary" is a coin prayer for cathodic despite differences about teachings about Mary

Common prayer
I hate phoneposting
With that being said, St. Seraphim's opinion was, well, opinion. There is already a at of prayers for the morning and night. Though it, as basically every prayer includes "our father" and Nicene creed anyways

Same except what was up with me is I originally was interested in Catholicism > protestantism. I use to do the rosary daily and read this book whoms name I forgot on catholic theology. Now I've settled for fence riding denomination of Lutheran still plan on trying out a Saturday evening mass at local catholic church though and maybe keeping with that so I celebrate Sabath and Lords day.

OP here. While yes St. Seraphim’s Prayer Rule is but one option (heck, I’ve found another one supposedly by him that’s longer and more intense), people who either don’t have a lot of time or are new to Cathodox Christianity might benefit from the speed and simplicity of the words.

pic not related although St. Andri Rublev has become not only my favorite iconographer but one of my favorite artists period

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Meanwhile in early Christian

John Ryland’s Papyrus:

Beneath your compassion
we take refuge, Theotokos.
Our petitions do not despise in time of trouble,
but from dangers ransom us,
Only Holy, Only Blessed

3rd Century Letter [5]
Egypt, Circa AD 250

3rd Century Papyrus:

As we sing to Father Son and Holy Spirit, may all the powers join with us to say Amen. To the only giver of all good things be power and praise. Amen.

Probably Egyptian, 3rd Century AD hymn [4]

Origen of Alexandria:

Now supplication and plea and thanksgiving may be offered to people without impropriety. Two of them, namely pleading and thanksgiving, might be offered not only to saints but to people alone in general, whereas supplication should be offered to saints alone, should there be found a Paul or a Peter, who may benefit us and make us worthy to attain authority for the forgiveness of sins.

On Prayer, 14.6 [3]
Alexandria, Circa AD 253

St. Hippolytus of Rome:

Tell me, you three boys, remember me, I entreat you, that I also may obtain the same lot of martyrdom with you, who was the fourth person with you who was walking in the midst of the furnace and who was hymning to God with you as from one mouth? Describe to us his form and beauty so that we also, seeing him in the flesh, may recognize him.

Commentary on Daniel, 30.1[2]
Rome, Circa AD 202-211

First guy is a shitposter also.

This is actually me the one you are claiming attacks Catholics and orthodox

Opps wrong qoutes
Polite sage

You hit the nail on the head.
They believe each saint has special unique powers, like how the pagan gods before them had special unique powers.
If they were only asking saints to pray for them in heaven (because saints are righteous)why do they have these attached patronistic powers?

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The fact we’ve been over this on this thread alone means this was bait, in which case shame on me.

the prayer of the righteous availeth much

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More honorable than the cherubim
and more glorious beyond compare than the seraphim
without defilement you gave birth to God The Word
True Theotokos we magnify you

Well that is a point

Nice bait, but jesus was the god-man.
Not half and half, but whole and whole

If the bear is on the icon, does it mean the bear is a Saint?

The bear does not have a halo, so no.

this

Bump for the brothers struggling against porn