Holy Fire in Jerusalem

Checked, and I hadn't thought of that.

The holy fire is not a miracle, because it contradicts our understanding of salvation. Bear with me:

God gives us free will so that we can choose to believe Him. He doesn't manifest Himself to us because that would interfere with our free will. If we had conclusive proof that He did exist, we would be making a free choice to accept him.

A repetitive "miracle" that proves the legitimacy of a specific church or religion directly contradicts that free choice, as it gives ample evidence to accept God based on that evidence rather than a free choice.

Who are "we", exactly? The Catholic Church teaches that God's existence can be known with certainty using human reason alone, and anathematizes fideism.

Are you the guy who made the thread "An Atheist prove holy fire is not real with christian doctrine" ? lol

How are miracles bad? Our Lord himself perfomed many miracles, and the people believed. Whatever brings people to God. Do not atheists/non-believers ask for evidence for God's existence?

That God exists can be known by pre reason is affirmed. This does not extend to the truths revealed in the scriptures or the dogmas of the faith, in this the church teaches that supernatural Faith is required. This is not a faith against reason, or without evidence, however. Look to Abraham, Moses, Mary, or the Apostles for models of Faith.

But it actually is a miracle and you're still using your free will to deny it. Just as you can use your free will to deny the truth of any miracle, just as the pharisees did regarding the miracles Jesus did in front of them!

I can only imagine why you think this is a bad thing.

Really?

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What do you mean lol?
Read Romans 1. God is self-evident to everyone already.

do it, and film yourself

So, there's this book called "the Bible". You should try reading it.

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This is unnecessary because very often the Holy Fire appears outside the tomb. And you know what? Nobody has ever been able to capture this on camera. People can see the appearance of the fire, but at the moment this happens the cameras always happen to be pointed at other directions. See this:
oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/holylight.htm

If the fire doesn't burn, why doesn't he hold it still and remove all doubt?

How about you put your arm over a fire and move it like he does and report back on how well your forearm got cooked. Or put a match to your beard for even a second and let us know how that goes.

He says that it burns, the fire produces heat but it doesn't burn his skin.
Fun fact: the Israeli police search the patriarch and the tomb before he enters it, they just can't explain it.

That is wrong because a miracle can hit you in the face and you can still refuse to believe.

In the Old Testament, the Paraoh was hit by multiple miracles yet he refused to bow(Granted, Iron Heart, so this one might not count)
Goliath's defeat by a slingshot converted… hm?
Samson destroying temple after temple did nothing
Also Jesus Christ is shown healing people after people and he even says this:

John 12:37 Although Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still did not believe in Him.
tl;dr Your theology is wrong, stop presenting it as factual.

I've heard this guy so much that I expected he would just be ignored by now. Nevermind, then.

not doubting you, but im gonna need a citation on that

Or alternatively:

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lebanontimesmagazine.com/holy-fire-between-reality-and-fiction/

This article describes the full procedure

no offense, but that does not look like a credible source

lord have mercy on me a sinner!

C'mon dude, here's the website of the patriarchate
Unless the Orthodox patriarch is jewing everybody (catholics, copts, muslims, jews) for 1200 years, the miracle is legit

en.jerusalem-patriarchate.info/the-holy-sepulcher-and-the-all-holy-church-of-the-resurrection/the-holy-light/

I wasn't doubting the miracle, I was doubting that the Israelis do an inspection every year. It just sounds kind of wieird. Why would they care?

Idk, the Ottomans also supervised and attended the ceremony before, and the crusaders before them
I guess you don't let someone claiming a miracle like that in your land to go unchecked.

That's assuming that salvation existed for the Israelites before Christ.

Basing your faith on a "miracle" and not on Christ is exactly why God doesn't give us repetative miracles as proof. Miracles are always given as private revelation to those who already have faith.

It didn't, but people in Abraham's Bosom went to heaven after Jesus Christ died on the cross.
Besides this relates nothing to , where the problem is free will, not salvation.

Excuse me?

Why are you assuming that I came to Christ based on a miracle? I came to Christ long before I even knew of the Holy Fire.
St Paul didn't have faith. He literally went around helping to kill those who professed that Christ is God. Are you implying that Jews who deny Christ are of the same faith of those who affirm that Christ is God?

Does anyone has the icon, Of the Pillar that caught fire? Lost it during a re installation of my Os. Pretty cool story when i was reading about it. Btw. More than likely, this isn't going to convince the super skeptic, they already have a worldview to explain away all the evidence. The problem was never that there wasn't enough evidence. But some far more troublesome. I'm silently Referring to the Fall. Which is a talk for another time.

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Also this book contains testimonies about the miracle by catholics, muslims, persians and others.
skarlakidis.gr/en/books/2012-07-12-06-57-11/18--1579-.html

Forgot pic

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*cough cough* Zoroastrian influence *cough*

You know fire existed before the Zoroastrians, right? And you know nearly all faiths have involved fire in their rituals, right?

The Bible does not support a word that you just said.

Yes. Must be that. God is never compared to a fire or performs any miracles that use fire in the Bible…

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He probably learned all he knows about Christianity through memes

but does the EO church stand by this miracle? would they allow whomever the priest is to wear a go-pro headset camera as he gets the miracle flame?

if you're gonna bet the entire kit-n-kaboodle on this, might as well go all the way

you can do this with a regular candle lol, its a fuel that doesn't burn very hot