WHO IS MARY?

WHO IS MARY?

all orthodox Christians: Mary is Theotokos, godbearer and Mother of God

Baptists: So you say that the Godhead has been born of Mary?

admit clearly that the Godhead has been born from the blessed Mary

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Other urls found in this thread:

biblehub.com/text/luke/1-35.htm
academia.edu/10578584/_Ignatius_and_the_Apostolate._The_Witness_of_Ignatius_to_the_Emergence_of_Christian_Scripture._in_M._F._Wiles_and_E._J._Yarnold_eds._Studia_Patristica_XXXVI._Leuven_Peeters_Press_2001_226-48
newadvent.org/fathers/0102.htm
earlychristianwritings.com/text/actspaul.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

But isn't Jesus God?

Actually Mary was called Chrisotokos because it emphasized God the Son's humanity (opposing the gnostic belief that Jesus was just pure spirit). But once the Arians came to the scene, Mary was called Theotokos, so to emphasize that the God the Son's is also fully divine.

Gold star, have you looked at the oldest prayer to Mary found?

Wow it's almost like this is supposed to have some greater bearing than what can be deduced through bare reasoning of the scriptures themselves.

Whoops

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What Jesus is holy? Do you mind explaining things yourself instead of autistically reposting page shots.

38 And Mary said, Behold, the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

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Are you so illiterate you cant read. Who is inside Mary's womb?

Here's a hint, it's Jesus who is GOD

That's not what the Greek James Bible says.
biblehub.com/text/luke/1-35.htm

The state of Baptists

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Well it can't actually be inferred through that specific verse anyways. Only that she is the Christ bearer.

Yes, because Christ is not God

Scripture says he is the son of God.
It says to believe in him.
So it's hard for anyone reasonably minded to conceive that she should be referred to so confidently as the mother of God the Father also.

Sounds just like what a certain heretic who was denounced at Ephesus said

It's not like they can confidently be proven to have disproven him since they same issue kept turning up continually throughout the ages.

No. It was only an issue then, and when Baptists came along

Implying this didn't devolve into the later schisms which took place which all probably had their roots in this excuse making of worldly ambitioned patriarchs.

...

Early Christian history was probably made up of more than just the trintarian Marian camps.

How ironic that the churches with the most political sway are the ones that claim absolute supremacy while those with less have often simply asked to be acknowledged.

It's a known fact that Greek and Romist bigots kept large eloquent churches around for the feudal aristocracy to worship in whose order they can often be attributed to having helped assume power, while less prominent minorities under their control had to meekly attend liturgies they had no connection with and also other diverse cultural traditions would all be collapsed into a single Franko-Roman practice at the expense of numerous native traditions.

Look at the practices even before grand churches are made. Before Constantine. They were all saying Baptism is needed for salvation, Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, venerating relics, venerating martyrs, praying for and even to the dead, emphasizing apostolic succession and saying one can only get true Scriptures in the church

Is such a church really Baptist? Is it really Protestant?

Think about it

literally this

Whatever tards. There were Nazarenes, Arians, adoptionists, Ebionites, Marcionites, and many others.
One doesn't have to be specifically Protestant to disagree with Romism.
How unsuprising that the faction most conducive to allowing the rabble masses to continue performing their favorite ritualism low key was the one coopted by the empire.

Yes. Let the butthurt flow through your veins

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Should mention that it was the faction with a simple easily supervisable practice of homage making was the one that would be coopted, since the sects which resembled superstitious mystery schools (gnostics) and those that were nonconductive to imperial cohesion would be rejected by the brainlet emperors. Until the most powerful factions left always ended up duking it out with eachother, Arians vs Chalcedonians, Catholics vs Orthodox, and Catholics vs Protestants.
Throughout the centuries Christian domains would do everything opposite what the bible would say.

immersion – sprinkling
aniconism – 2d painting – 3d sculpting
modest clothing – bust revealing attire
criticizing books written in gold on purple vellum and decorated with gems – jewel encrusted covers

Didiache permits both explicitly. But regardless, all agree on Baptismal Regeneration which Baptists deny

Which is nonsensical given early NT Text show visual markers like staurograms and nomina sacra and the OT itself show how Solomon's temple and the ark utilise sculpture and paintings. Before Constantine images in churches and Christian catacombs are known too.

Which is stupid considering that the first Christian clergymen would dress in white, so it would resemble how Zoroastrians dress when they worship. Baptist pastors don't wear white robes. Even early on, clergy are asked to dress the best they can

Literally zero evidence of this

Most of the "Catholic" stuff are there before even Emperors came into the scene!

Eg: Ignatius high view of the Apostles to the point that it verges on veneration by a Calvinist scholar
academia.edu/10578584/_Ignatius_and_the_Apostolate._The_Witness_of_Ignatius_to_the_Emergence_of_Christian_Scripture._in_M._F._Wiles_and_E._J._Yarnold_eds._Studia_Patristica_XXXVI._Leuven_Peeters_Press_2001_226-48


Cult of relics and martyrs which is idol worship to Baptists today
newadvent.org/fathers/0102.htm

Chapter 17. The Christians are refused Polycarp's body
But when the adversary of the race of the righteous, the envious, malicious, and wicked one, perceived the impressive nature of his martyrdom, and [considered] the blameless life he had led from the beginning, and how he was now crowned with the wreath of immortality, having beyond dispute received his reward, he did his utmost that not the least memorial of him should be taken away by us, although many desired to do this, and to become possessors of his holy flesh. For this end he suggested it to Nicetes, the father of Herod and brother of Alce, to go and entreat the governor not to give up his body to be buried, lest, said he, forsaking Him that was crucified, they begin to worship this one. This he said at the suggestion and urgent persuasion of the Jews, who also watched us, as we sought to take him out of the fire, being ignorant of this, that it is neither possible for us ever to forsake Christ, who suffered for the salvation of such as shall be saved throughout the whole world (the blameless one for sinners ), nor to worship any other. For Him indeed, as being the Son of God, we adore; but the martyrs, as disciples and followers of the Lord, we worthily love on account of their extraordinary affection towards their own King and Master, of whom may we also be made companions and fellow disciples!

Chapter 13. The funeral pile is erected
This, then, was carried into effect with greater speed than it was spoken, the multitudes immediately gathering together wood and fagots out of the shops and baths; the Jews especially, according to custom, eagerly assisting them in it. And when the funeral pile was ready, Polycarp, laying aside all his garments, and loosing his girdle, sought also to take off his sandals — a thing he was not accustomed to do, inasmuch as every one of the faithful was always eager who should first touch his skin. For, on account of his good behavior he was, even before his martyrdom, adorned with every kind of good. Immediately then they surrounded him with those substances which had been prepared for the funeral pile. But when they were about also to fix him with nails, he said, Leave me as I am; for He that gives me strength to endure the fire, will also enable me, without your securing me by nails, to remain without moving in the pile.

Funny how regardless Jewish sculpture and painting is scant nonetheless.

Medieval Carolingian fashions left and to the right emphasized ideal of 17th century noble women

There is substantial evidence as it was written by Euseby Hieronym himself.

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Except when it isnt because of the fact that we have synagogues with mosaics in them and even in some, actual human representations too. But despite this, the fact that the Temple have these imagery as Scripture approvingly states is sufficient alongside catacomb paintings and early archaeological evidence. This is why scholars now move away from claiming the early Christians were aiconists as Robin M Jensen and Charles Murray had done

Which explains nothing, as that does not change the fact the early Christian clergy would be dressed similar to today's Zoroastrian priests, with the exception of wearing the secular pallium which is simply just white in the form of your pic, or even with some basic patterns here and there.

And try again when you actually quote scholars, not some random nobody

And some actual primary sources for prayer to saints by pre Constantinian Christians

1.5 John Ryland’s Papyrus:

Beneath your compassion
we take refuge, Theotokos.
Our petitions do not despise in time of trouble,
but from dangers ransom us,
Only Holy, Only Blessed

3rd Century Letter [5]
Egypt, Circa AD 250

1.4 3rd Century Papyrus:

As we sing to Father Son and Holy Spirit, may all the powers join with us to say Amen. To the only giver of all good things be power and praise. Amen.

Probably Egyptian, 3rd Century AD hymn

1.2 St. Hippolytus of Rome:

Tell me, you three boys, remember me, I entreat you, that I also may obtain the same lot of martyrdom with you, who was the fourth person with you who was walking in the midst of the furnace and who was hymning to God with you as from one mouth? Describe to us his form and beauty so that we also, seeing him in the flesh, may recognize him.

Commentary on Daniel, 30.1[2]
Rome, Circa AD 202-211

earlychristianwritings.com/text/actspaul.html

18 But Thecla at night took off her bracelets and gave them to the doorkeeper, and when the door was opened for her she went into the prison, and gave the jailer a mirror of silver and so went in to Paul and sat by his feet and heard the wonderful works of God. And Paul feared not at all, but walked in the confidence of God: and her faith also was increased as she kissed his chains.

28 Now when the beasts were led in procession, they bound her to a fierce lioness, and the queen Tryphaena followed after her: but the lioness, when Thecla was set upon her, licked her feet, and all the people marvelled. Now the writing (title) of her accusation was: Guilty of sacrilege. And the women with their children cried out from above: O God, an impious judgement cometh to pass in this city. And after the procession Tryphaena took her again. For her daughter Falconilla, which was dead, had said to her in a dream: Mother, thou shalt take in my stead Thecla the stranger that is desolate, that she may pray for me and I be translated into the place of the righteous.


29 When therefore Tryphaena received her after the procession, she alike bewailed her because she was to fight the beasts on the morrow, and also, loving her closely as her own daughter Falconilla; and said: Thecla, my second child, come, pray thou for my child that she may live for ever; for this have I seen in a dream. And she without delay lifted up her voice and said: O my God, Son of the Most High that art in heaven, grant unto her according to her desire, that her daughter Faleonilla may live for ever. And after she had said this, Tryphaena bewailed her, considering that so great beauty was to be cast unto the beasts.

Odd, Baptists dont believe in prayer for the dead or even the notion that a martyr's prayer for someone who is dead can be beneficial

Yeah sure

So our current understanding of the Trinity didn't exist before Nicea said so? What faulty logic.