I asked a pastor but didn't get a response. Anthropologically, speaking, Christianity isn't the oldest religion (Or Judaism, not in the modern sense but the pre-Christ religion of God sense), despite the religion's god being responsible for the creation of mankind.
I understand other religions could branch off from preChristianity and morph through distance and the lack of a solidified church stucture, but I don't see anything to suggest God ever just stopped communicating with humanity for a huge gap between Adam and modern humans, so why isn't the Christian God a constant in human worship for all of recorded history?
Or is He, and I'm just not aware? I know the Proto-Semetic people have been worshiping in some way or another since ancient times, but animism seems to predate their worship.
I know that. My question is why aren’t there older archaeological findings of worship to that specific god, since in Christianity God communicated with Mankind from the start. I know the Bible acknowledges other religions exist and doesn’t get into when exactly they started to exist.
I suppose
Robert Hernandez
You're not aware.People will call me a filthy gnostic even though i subscribe 100% to christianity but here we go. Consider Hinduism. We believe it's the biggest and oldest polytheist religion in the world and in a way… that is true, but it wasn't the case during the origins.
If you read closely the Rig Veda and other sacred books of Hinduism you realize that There is Brahman. The one and supreme God. Brahman has attributes. The attributes aren't separated gods like we believe but… "specialization" akin to our Trinity. So Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva aren't separated gods, they are still Brahman, but Brahma who appears under a special aspect. Brahman who create the world = Brahma Brahman who saves/conserve the world = Vishnu Brahman who transform/destroy = Shiva
And from those three, you can specialize them ad infinitum but THEY ARE STILL THE ONE BRAHMAN
And all "polytheistics" religions are actually like this, and there are a lot of interesting parallels to be drawn once you realize the """gods""" aren't gods but symbols of the divine.
However, human as fallen, so they've lost this knowledge and added their own rules, creating the "pagan" religions we know to this day. This is why GOD has chosen the jews to keep His truth sacred.
TL;DR Pagan religions were monotheistic but have degenerated towards idolatry and nature/human worship. God has chosen the jews to keep His truth pure in a world of fallen humans… And CHRIST have come to save everyone, the ultimate truth as it was in the beginning, free from all corruption.
What's your stance on Buddhism and its relation to Hinduism?
Angel Anderson
Buddhism emerged from Hinduism and, like christianity emerged from judaism, it was an attempt to restore religion as it was back then… A human attempt but an attempt nonetheless, whereas christianity was GOD coming to earth to restore His message. Buddhism basically says : "Too much gods, so let's erase them all and concentrate on karma, charity, good works, fighting passions, etc" that
That being said, Hinduism and Buddhism aren"t that different from one another if you study them both closely, it's simply the "package" that changes, so to speak,
Thanks for your posts, that was very informative. I did not know just how far back the roots of Hinduism ran. It does make me wonder just how far back it goes, considering one of my questions is how to reconcile religion and man as a product of evolution, but even “modern” man dated back to prehistory and there would not be surviving archaeological evidence of Adam, for example.
Blake Flores
There's also the Hiranyagarbha mentioned in Rig Veda 10.121.
Ian Myers
because it would trigger the Jewish, godless secularists
Sebastian Lee
Christianity couldn’t possibly care if it offended atheists, and there are surely Christian anthropologists
Angel Martin
This is actually very intersting. Hiranyagarbha is an "avatar" of Vishnu (Brahma who preserves the wortld) and is typically depicted as a "golden egg", the heart of the universe…
Why am I saying this? Because Hildegarde of Bingen (a saint from the XIIth century, in one of her many visions saw the universe as a "golden egg" protected by God, and she drew it. Pic related. That alone proves there was more to ancient religions than nature worship. It might have degenerated by some of their truth is still accessible. This is why the catholic church had no problem using ancient "pagan" symbolism during the middle ages (christmas being the most obvious one). Paganism is wrong and idolatry but a truth stays a truth, even if people forgot and defigured it.
I, know i already made a thread for this, but this may actually help you some. As this helped me a lot regarding Pagan Faiths. And also on their metaphysical outlooks on life. So far, this is the only full article i know of where, C.S Lewis touches on Pre Christian faiths in a more full detail; but they may be out there. Finding Works of C.S Lewis, is like finding a hidden gem that so many people have forgotten about it seems.
Jonathan Sullivan
Oh, oh, sorry I cannot think of a Christian who wouldn't walk on eggshells, so to not avoid offend atheist and try to keep the conversation going. Keep in mind that the majority of church leaders and theologists at universities are consistently trying get approval from secular university/millennials & zoomers which effects their apologetics. And don't get me started on the dispensationalists
Err, Excuse me wrong vid. This is the one. but the other is also necessary. This, is the big one. And contains the part where lewis touches on the pagan faiths. But they're both very educating.
Angel Perez
And they are ignored for wrongthink.
Elijah Brooks
Hindus have Dyaus Pita while Greeks and Romans have Zeus and Jupiter. The Greeks also had the concept of Theos which came to be used by translators and authors of scripture.
Jaxson Mitchell
This is also interesting.
Adam Rivera
It is, people worshipped the living God before Abraham, but it wasn't organised as Judaism before then.
Samuel Bell
It’s interesting that Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons sprinkled their dead with red ochre, possibly representing blood.
Dominic Rogers
Well firstly, bear in mind that most of them date their finds as they're taught by the evolutionary model. If you read "This site dates to…", do not EVER take that number at face value. Look into how it was determined and what assumptions the daters were making. You will always find a smattering of evolutionary thought.
That said, there are some examples of cultures that worshiped the true God. The very ancient Chinese appear to be one, worshiping him under the name ShangTi at first.
The Karen Tribe in Burma is another. They worshiped YHWH, and had an oral version of the Biblical account up until the dispersion of the nations. Once Christianity did come, they recognized it as being the rest.
An anthropological study of the Karen people here: books.google.com/books?id=4SsMAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA211 discusses their indigenous religious views: "The third conception in the religious traditions of the people is embodies in the 'Y'wa' legend, which tells of the placing of the first parents in the garden by 'Y'wa,', the Creator; their temptation to eat of the forbidden fruit by a serpent or dragon, etc…Were the "Y'wa' legend marked by distinctive features, we might regard it as one exhibiting only a general resemblance to other traditions extant in other parts of the world, but its parallelism with the account in Genesis precludes this view of the case… The contrast between the animistic and the Y'wa conception of the creation of the world is illustrated in the lines of the following 'hta' or poem:…'When first the earth was formed,/It was…Y'wa who formed it'……Characterization of Y'wa as the Eternal One is herewith given in two translations from an ancient poem…'Y'wa is eternal, he alone [existed] before the world was made…The life of Y'wa is endless…Y'wa is perfect in every meritorious attribute, And dies not in succession on succession of worlds'"…Besides being called eternal, [Y'wa] is described as 'all powerful' and as 'having the knowledge of all things.' He created man and 'woman from a rib of man,' and he made the animals and placed them on the earth."
And so on. I encourage you to read that chapter: it goes on to discuss their accounts of the first two people being tempted by the serpent to eat forbidden fruit, death coming into the world on account of that, and so on.
It concludes "There can be no doubt but that the above legend…has been largely responsible for the readiness with which the Karen people have accepted Christianity".
So that's a strong example of one culture that did this.
Andrew Bailey
OP, of course Judaism isn't the "oldest religion," just as much as Christianity isn't the "oldest religion." Before Judaism, what do you think existed? Read about King Jobab (Book of Job) and see how he worshipped God. What about Noah? What about Adam and Eve? Who do you think taught Cain and Abel to offer burnt sacrifices to God? The problem with your way of thinking is you're looking for a list of rules to follow mindlessly, instead of worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth. God looks at the heart. Christianity is the newest covenant God established with mankind through the fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies laid out in the Old Testament. Jesus Christ is the Messiah and He is the way, the truth and the life.
I suggest you read the Bible literally cover-to-cover. If you did, the answers and doubts you have would already be answered. God bless OP.
noice, will go on my list. Corduan's one only deals with the local early religions/animism in one of the first chapters and no isn''t a whole book about the idea for (other's) info.
Joshua Brooks
Consider also the Mesopotamian religion. Anu was the highest god, but by the time of the written records his worship had been largely superseded by lesser entities who were seen as more approachable.
Lucas Morales
Christianity is the oldest one, because that's the actual religion that god envisioned with ancient Israel
Carson Bell
Symbols are science, not paganism. And you are right that traditions worldwide knew a lot more than we can ever imagine. What did the indigenous people of Africa and America know, before their artefacts and books were destroyed, robbed? What is being lost in the Iraq and Syria right now? What was lost in China's great leap forward, or during the Christening of Europe? All of this points to a consistent war on terror/terra(the feminine, and sacred knowledge) aimed at maintaining the severe ignorance among human beings.
I Humans have only gotten into that whole writing thing and writing on long-term mediums for a few thousand words … y'know, a few years before Abram.
II What records do we have of other gods being worshiped, OP? They wouldn't be little shrines and statuettes and temples and things like that, would they? Y'know, the VERY THINGS God told His followers not to get into?
III The Book of Job is said to be pre-Abram which kinda undermines the lack of worship theory.
VI What this guy says and I'll throw in Shang-Di, the Chinese equivalent, and endorse user's statement that: >Pagan religions were monotheistic but have degenerated towards idolatry and nature/human worship I very much believe this. Our ancient-most ancestors knew of the Lord, but a slow and progressive rejection of Him over generations – because their deeds were evil – lead to worshiping forests, lightning, the sun, and all manner of other things that frightened them or they knew they depended on.
This post is not in a reply to you, specifically, but more an elaboration of why this has been so, for the benefit of those who do not know the Church's stance and who confuse matters by not seeing certain distinctions.
The reason the Church has seen no problem with this is because what is wrong with paganism is its nature worship, not its use of symbols, which can always be appropriated and given a new use and meaning, a dynamic that exactly describes what the Church has done to make the process of conversion more agreeable for new followers from these religions. It also stands to reason that there is nothing particularly offensive about symbols as such, considering they find for their source the one true God.
The genuine moral concerns for these uses seem to fall to the areas of suitability and scandal. Take, for example, the Cross of St. Peter, a completely Christian symbol, which through the years has received a decidedly opposite meaning from its original, and would no doubt, given the current state of the Church, be considered unwise, at least, to suddenly give it any distinction within the Church.
can you give us some idea of the contents of this book?
Dominic Roberts
Christianity as an organized religion is not the oldest Not even the Israelite religion is the oldest In the beginning there was no need due to the direct connection to God. After severing that connection, many other religions sprang up as they came to worship other deities. Who knows what the oldest is
Sebastian Brown
According to St. Augustine Christianity has always existed, but in other forms and by other names.
Carson James
IE Pagan religions didn't suffer a polytheistic devolution. The notion of Deus was the by-product of the personification of Numina. The idea of Gods and Goddesses was not in the beginning and is a degeneration of the prior knowledge of forces and their manipulation, the further degeneration of these ancient pantheons and the rites surrounding them leading to the inevitable disconnect from the supranatural.
Jacob Jackson
All the false religions came from Babylon from the Tower of Babel.
Levi Powell
Man, prots are some legit morons
Ryder Walker
He's clearly talking about Temple Judaism, you buffoon. Can you contain your vitriol for even a second?
Benjamin Murphy
Can go one better than some ideas m8 It goes into the concepts and beliefs, worship practices and rituals of each of the faiths and makes sure to make a distinction between the 'high' theologian's take and how any particular faith is practiced by regular folk on the ground. I haven't read it all yet though.
A new religion will take over just like it has through history Religions come and go It’s how parts of the world control there people Religion slows progress of the people and leads to fighting Example look at the United States of America they have gone extreme religion and there progress stopped soon instead of developing they will pray for development. Only when people develop developing improves. Praying and not getting any development. That’s how fast USA has fallen out. They now pray and not actually do anything. This happened to Europe in the 80s why there is no economy and hatred to people Trying to explain to a drug addict not to do drugs and be productive in society. As the same goes for praying, they rather pray then be productive in society. USA has a society that is praying for the messiah to end the world. When other parts of the world are productive and social to each other.
Jeremiah Rogers
Christianity is the oldest of Abrahamic religions. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Jews no longer have a temple or priesthood. The old Israel is dead. Their rabbinic and talmudic replacement came after Christianity, and it barely believes in the old scriptures at that. It gives the Talmud more value.
Jaxson Taylor
Interesting, glad he included Schmidt. I would hope someone takes a closer look at what exactly what processes they used to dismantle Schmidt's theory and why are they are no longer applicable.
