When is it okay to disobey the 6th commandment, and where does it say so in the bible?

That's not what it means though.

so you just completely ignored most of what i said and just repeated the same thing.

No, I literally responded to everything you said. It's all incorrect. You might as well have said that "kill" should be replaced by "unicorn" and you would have effectively said the same thing you did: which is nothing meaningful.

Murder is killing against or outside the law. The death sentence is legally sanctioned, as is war, self-defence, and euthanasia.

Not that I think abortion or euthanasia are just in any way at all.

One of these things is not sanctioned in the Bible.

That's not your choice to make.

So, you're saying man's law > God's law.

Noted.

Because it doesn't conflict with the rest of the bible.

So you're saying I should press the triangle next to your name, check the "add filter" section, and click "ID" until you stop being intellectually dishonest?
Noted.

You can filter me, but you can't filter God.

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Stop this right now, this is sophistry. God gives Moses permission to use the Death Penalty once he completes his covenant with God by making an offering after the flood.

Genesis 9:6 - The penalty of killing a innocent man is the death of the murderer.

Matthew 18:6 - Killing yourself is better than offending an christian child.

Acts 25:11 - Paul acknowledges the legitimacy of the death penalty. "Deed worthy of death"

Or, as has traditionally been the case, it prevents him or her from sinning more, and making their case worse for themselves. You also would have access to a priest, and could receive the sacraments prior to execution.

God sets up and allows states to continue existing, and gives them authority over their citizens. Where a state's law doesn't go against God it is effectively an extension of God's Law, and should be obeyed. Ephesians 6:5

People put to death for their crimes are at fault for their own death.

Being put to death is part of their payment for their crimes.

It's leaving crimes unpunished or vastly underpunished that results in an environment of universal crime.

You're effectively punishing the innocent by forcing them to forgive an unlimited number of attacks against themselves.

and yet.. the 6th commandment is kill, and not murder. and most theologians agree kill is the correct word.

kinda makes your argument fall flat.

Jesus was all about turning the other cheek. Which makes you think that you really are supposed to just lay down and take whatever happens to you.

Didn't jesus once say that if a man is happy in this world, then god does not like you? that you should frown instead of laugh, be sullen instead of joyous? Almost like this world is so evil that for a man to be content here he must be evil.

The problem with the death penalty isnt even religious the issue is that you can never be 100% sure of someones guilt, Just look at the sheer number of murder charges overturned. Death penalty is a bad idea for this reason.

People seem to have forgotten, there's a distinction between Murder and Killing. And like most people i was one where. There was no distinction to me. To me before i really wanted to understand the ancient Christian worldview. I just saw the two as one in the same. Without even a second thought to it. How stupid of me… And to the people here arguing against the death Penalty. You only do the faith a disservice, of siding with the modernist, the materialist, the new ager. Stop lying to yourself lol.

Yes, pain and Death are very real things and do Exist. But they're not the worst things to exist. The idea that they are, is literally Materialist/Atheist Ethics. That pain and death, are the worst things in the world, and that they have to be avoided at all cost. You see how this, is starting to differ from the ancient Christian worldview? Stop with the newageism.

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Im sorry opinion on death penalty does nothing to the faith and you are ridiculous.

Sorry I worry about killing possibly innocent people, really hurting the faith with that idea ….

No, the Bible itself says that when someone commits murder, the blood of the murdered one desecrates the land, and the only way to purify is by killing the murderer.

tirzach = murder
taharog = kill
6th commandment is against murder

Since it was established earlier by that state execution requires man's sanction, what about places where the death penalty is not legal? Like for instance Vatican City. Are you seriously going to claim that every nation that doesn't permit the death penalty is corrupt? What about the man drawn lines in the dirt that make nations which didn't even exist when the Bible was written? How can a nation even have laws if it wasn't a nation created by God? Unless, of course, you believe that "ethnicity = nation".

And yet God didn't kill Cain. How about that, eh?

he made special provision for Cain, the Bible makes it pretty clear he was an exception and being granted special protection.

Are you seriously going to claim that every nation that doesn't permit the death penalty is corrupt?
I didn't say it corrupts nations. It just desecrates the land in some manner. What the nature of that desecration is and its consequences are I can't say and don't know, but we would surely be wise enough to take it to heart. All I know is that it has a negative influence on communities, and killing murderers is a way of mollifying that negative ifluence.

what about the 200 or so a year killed who are innocent by the death penalty, what do you think that does to land?

If it's done by thorough and fair legal procedures, carried out by government authority then it is lamentable but acceptable. Again, it is murder that has desecrating influence, not killing as such. Government authority and courts of law are good things. For the government not to execute criminals would be injustice which is an evil.

I dunno I consider it a bigger injustice to kill possibly innocent people. But to each their own.

I would rather 1,000 guilty men go free than execute a single innocent.

You're free to follow secular humanism if you like, but don't call it Christianity.

A worry of killing innocent people isn't secular humanism.

BASED
A
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Also to add a life of suffering in jail is a much greater punishment than death.
Polite sage.

All the same person…
1 to make the worry of killing innocents into an idea of literally freeing murderers when it's actually keeping them suffering with their sin for life and avoiding death if innocents.

How many people did Christ execute? He even allowed a murderer to go free (Barabas) while he went to the cross.

I never switch IPs, Mr (1), but thanks for trying.

He who lives by the State, will die by the State.

Do you actually think this is a good argument? lol

It's the best argument … unless you don't believe in being Christ-like.

Do you think being Christ-like means being a pacificst hippy? Christ is king. Christ judges all mankind Christ condmens sinners to hellfire.

You are condemning killers to a life of suffering with their sin and no freedom much worse than instant death, its not a hippy concept to worry about killing innocent people, its called being a good human and knowing how to make the real killers suffer even more.

Jesus didn't start any wars. Jesus didn't execute anyone. Jesus never even struck anyone (and before you bring up the whip, he didn't hit anyone with it, just swung it around). I'm sorry that your fee-fees are filled with such blood lust, but Jesus didn't share in that blood lust. He even healed the man who came to arrest him, saying: "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." (Matt 26:52)

Does that sound like an angry, vengeful, "kill 'em all" kind of guy?

Conquest of Canaan.
Firstborn of Egypt.

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"As of October 2015, we have executed over 1,414 individuals in this country since 1976. 156 individuals have been exonerated from death row–that is, found to be innocent and released - since 1973. 3 In other words, for every 10 people who have been executed since the death penalty was reinstated in the U.S., one person has been set free."

Look how trust worthy American court system is…

Your argument is trash anyway, since putting innocents in life is wrong anyway, so better just get rid of criminal punishment all together right? And your methodology is bullshit as well, since in 1976 the technology to consider DNA evidence didn't exist, so the rate of wrongful executions that could be avoided by DNA evidence will plummet so long as investigations are conducted properly.

Also your original argument was garbage in the first place "name one time Jesus did X!" Well name one time Jesus got married or sired children. Haha can't do it, looks like God really just created mankind in order that it might subject itself to voluntary extinction.

Poster status: Disingenuous larping progressive

You need to learn to ID, friend.

Your whole post was just a poorly reasoned non-sequitor then, the point stands, get lost

No. I'm going to stay and spread the good word of Christ to balance out your fear mongering and nationalism.

Nobody adressed my earlier post.

EVERY ONE THAT DISAGREES WITH ME ISNT A REAL CHRISTIAN AND EBIL PROGRESSIVE HURRR DURRRR

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It is never okay to disobey the 6th commandment.

It is however acceptable and even necessary to kill in 3 circumstances:

1. In self defense

2. In a just war

3. For the proper authorities to punish grave crimes.

No they don’t, it’s clearly referring to “murder”, especially considering God said certain crimes should be punished with execution

ok, thanks. where in the bible does it say this btw? and is it in all versions?

same response for you too, just curious.

Don't bother. They're going to interpret it in any way that satisfies their need for blood libel.

It's not about, a mindless need to satisfy some need for blood. It's about what's right, just, and even commanded by God for Action. Self defence, the Death penalty, Just wars. If we were to take the 6th commandment to its logical conclusion to mean. *No killing Whatsoever in anycase*. Then to all the christian nations of the world today. All we can say is, Surrender, turn over your weapons, Disarm, And hand over your nuclear weapons to be Annihilated. But even more problematic is the fact that. Christian history really doesn't line up with this line of thought. Many Saints. And the church, Both Roman And Orthodox have supported just wars in the past. And Not just purely *Defensive*, But also offensive wars. Meaning they saw a distinction, and knew it. The Crusades, Russian conquest of Siberia and parts of China, India, South america, Mexico, American midwest, Australia Hello??? Where's this Christian pacifism in ancient Christian history if seen to be True?? Don't you see it. You're believing an interpretation, that literally just comes out of the Enlightenment. Why you anons in this thread so obstinate about this. I literally have to ask, but are you an Evangelical lol?

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that's judaism, the ten commandments do not apply to Christians

HA, HA , HA , HA .

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Honestly, how can anyone possibly think the bible represents gods word, when people also think that it has no universally agreed version, and varies from person to person based on their own man made laws/morals?

what is the point of the bible if man can just choose to rewrite it in subtle ways at will, to bend it to their liking?

Pure liberalism. How much taxes to you pay a year, bad boy?

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Nice (((translation))), it is murder not kill

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I pay my fair share of taxes. It's cheaper to keep someone in prison for life than it is to execute them.

I knew I'd see this post sooner or later. It's the logical conclusion of Islamic abrogation of old law which so many CINOs believe in.

are you replying to a different person?

which version does it say murder?

the hebrew version

you mean the torah? confused here.

The ethical dilemma is meaningless in reality.

If you employ smart investigators, train them well, hold them to strict ethics: you will have justice as good as anyplace else. If you pick people for reasons other than ability, if your "training" is more about politics than the job, if your ethics committee likewise revolves around politics: your land is run by gangsters.

You don't pick between convicting the innocent and releasing the guilty. If you do one then the other comes with it at no extra charge.

i think we can all agree that as men, we can come up with suitable laws acceptable by men.

but this is about gods law right?

In the case of "convict innocents" vs "acquit guilty" I'd say it's more a matter of performance.

If you perform good, you get good justice. If you perform not at all then you get justice not at all. If one claims to be holier-than-thou but their performance is abysmal, scrutinize their claims.

God has instituted capital punishment for a lot of grave acts in the past, yet he still added the 6th commandment (and this all at the same time in the desert with Moses).
The 6th commandment is "thou shalt not murder", but "thou shalt not kill" has been used in the same context because everybody knew the actual meaning of the commandment.
The real, absolute reading of the 6th commandment would mean not only no capital punishment but neither any form of possibly lethal self-defense, no retaliation when troops are invading your country, no disabling a band of thieves from raping your wife and kids if they'd break in, and going even further to Christ no self-sacrifice (because you're basically killing yourself for someone else's sake).

This commandment, together with "love thy neighbour" teach us that life is sacred, and should not be taken lightly and someone's death needs to be avoided at all cost.
Keeping someone in a prison for life, however, is as bad as capital punishment with an extra added flavour of hypocrisy.
The hypocrisy comes from the supposed more humane treatment by banishing someone in a boring environment with hostile people and mediocre food while imprisonment as a concept has been meant to reeducate inmates to a non-criminal life in society.
A life sentence is an abuse of power for sheer display of hypocrisy on the cost of society's money.
If one cannot be rehabilitated into society and keeps on coming back by doing severe crimes after getting multiple second-chances to a normal life, only capital punishment would be a true solution.
They had that the multiple times they went out and even before that.

It's actually cheaper to keep someone in jail for life than it is to handle all the logistic details of killing some one in america under the law and i assume you mean america cause you keep referring to the prison environment in america.

God approving of capital punishment basically is the same thing as saying all men are righteous enough to judge when another person will leave this earth.

Jesus says that he is the only one who can pass judgement on matters of life and death in accordance with his fathers wishes.

What are the guidelines for man to decide when killing is justified? Sure you can lay out the obvious scenarios that make perfect sense to me and you.. but thats only to me and you, and we are men. When men make rules, they make sense to men, just like when men sin, it makes sense for these men to sin. It does not mean that it is within God's laws.

Its just like any other commandment, following most of the commandments usually seem to result in hardships for people. It has always been the case that those who are wicked and do not follow the commandments that they gain the upper hand on those that dont in this world. Why not break all the other commandments as well since they seem very inconvenient to adhere to?

Thou shalt not kill.

based

I guess the Hebrews got it wrong when in the same book it is recorded they went to war against their neighbours at the command of God.

O wise and mighty user, please explain that.

which jew said that god said he should kill people?

where can i find this passage? im interested.

If you were to come across two people, and one was obviously about to kill the other, assuming you have the capability to end the violence, what do you do? If you had a gun, and use it, the would be murderer would probably go to hell. If you DONT use it, the person about to get murdered might go to hell, and you'd be complicit to it by inaction. So what would you do? You cant say that God had arranged, or is allowing, the death of that person. Maybe He sent you there to stop it? Things are not as black and white as you think.

theres about a million things in the bible that lead me to believe that god/jesus doesnt even know if they want people to go to hell for no reason at all.

For instance, jesus literally says that the people would never be guilty if they didnt know about him, but since he showed up, now they are guilty if they dont believe in him.

The whole damn thing doesnt make sense, why even come around in the first place if everyone would never be guilty, jesus's own words he says this.

And the commandments can sometimes command you to break other commandments, for instance honor thy father and mother. What if your mother or father asks you to bear false withness? or to steal? What if your father or mother teaches you to always steal, kill, and covert neighbors goods? when is is acceptable to break commandments? where are the guidelines? seems like an easy way to land in hell if you interpret it the wrong way.

I am a christian, but sometimes I really only feel like a christian out of raw fear alone, and to me that makes me feel like god does not love, moreso conquers.

hmmm it's almost like piecemeal interpretations of scripture apart from holy tradition and the church lead to absurd conclusions

to add to the first part, what happens if jesus first introduces himself as the messiah to a crowd, and he explains that if they do not believe in him, they are all damned, if they do they are saved.

What if a second later a man keels over from a heart attack. He had time to understand jesus's words, but he did not have time to be given explanation about his miracles,. sacrifice, or any other reasons for belief that the bible pounds into you.

Would this man go to hell because he knew jesus was the messiah before he died?

says who? men?

and who came up with your interpretation of scripture? did you receive it through a second revelation? the holy traditions are not invented things subject to the whims of individuals, they are passed down understandings of how to interpret scriptures, how to live a christian life, knowledge regarding sacraments etc. holy tradition is from the holy spirit, your personal interpretation is from your limited intellect

yes its my personal interpretation, and i asked if you had any source for these traditions being holy, and if you do, where are the holy guidelines for all of the questions we are asking in this thread?

yeah, they were passed down by saints of the church, people whose testimony and opinion is far more reliable than yours. my source is that the best christians who ever lived said so, and if i cant believe them who am i going to believe?

I have the sneaking suspicion this thread was made by a Muslim or some kind of weird New Age cultist.

but can you actually post the source? also pretty sure no one said they were more reliable than anyone else, why are you so passive aggressive about discussing something that you believe in?

seems like a legit question for anyone with a brain to make a thread like this.

If the person who made the thread were truly interested in answering their question, they would have picked up a Bible and read through the relevant books themselves (or just searched on the internet for the relevant information). Instead, they have come here to waste the time of other people, all the while sitting back smugly repeating the same nonsensical drivel as if implying they are wiser than everyone else.

Out of charity, let me explain why the original question is idiotic, and why the continued whinging of the OP and his fellow sodomites is so nauseating.

From Wikipedia:

>According to the Priestly Code of the Book of Numbers, killing anyone outside the context of war with a weapon, or in unarmed combat, is considered retzach, but if the killing is accidental, the accused must not leave the city, or he will be considered guilty of intentional murder. The Bible never uses the word retzach in conjunction with war.

In other words, the commandment is a condemnation of murder, not lawful defence or offence as seen in war. In other words, killing an innocent is sinful, whereas killing an invader, or someone who is a threat to the general good, is not.

In the Gospel according to Matthew, Our Lord, the Son of God, Jesus Christ, tells Saint Peter that, “Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.” Not that, “Those who live by the sword are sinners,” nor that “Those who live by the sword are a big bunch of meanie-poos,” but that, in essence, in life we reap what we sow, we get that which we give. Jesus is not saying that working as a soldier is sinful, nor that bearing arms is against the will of God – after all, earlier in Jesus' ministry He sends His disciples out to other villages to spread word of the kingdom of God, with the express command that they carry a sword in addition to their other belongings – but rather that the lives we live will tend to dictate our eventual fates.

It is also helpful to remember the death of Saint Peter, for he glorified God by crucifixion, similar to Christ Himself. Were the saint to keep his sword drawn against the guards who arrested Christ, his death would have been of a different sort, which is why Christ told him to surrender instead of fight. In conjunction, we must also remember that it was necessary that Christ was killed by the Jews in order to bring about His most miraculous Resurrection.

In short, Our Lord’s command to Saint Peter was not one of pacifism, rather to one to bring about firstly the Resurrection, and secondly Peter’s martyrdom. Murder is always sinful, however killing in war or defence is not.

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If a person is so toxic to society that he must be in prison forever, to protect everyone else from him, then it's better to remove him completely by execution.
Offer him chances to repent before execution, but if he won't then carry on.