What is your position on salvation?

We have a body and a soul, when we die the soul departs from the body, and exists outside of it, going to a place where it experiences a foretaste of it's future judgement. There are things we describe as immaterial, but they are only comparatively immaterial as God alone is truly immaterial, so there is no need for any additional vessel or anything. We don;t roam about the Earth at our deaths, so the supernatural experiences may in fact be real experiences, but they are experiences with demons and not deceased humans

At this point I'm in between B and C.

I disagree with this. Though we aren't confined to Earth after death, the saints have early agency and the ability to make apparitions and the Orthodox have stories of even the damned appearing to ask for prayers. If you're a prot I understand why you might think differently. I used to think the same thing you do and I grew up in protestant US.

I'm Orthodox and am completely aware of tollhouse mythology, slavic rumors, and strange tales from the desert fathes

In favor of it
F) salvation is the work of God not man for his purposes

D if you change "worship" to "believe in"

James 2 19 tho

In the very same passage as John 3:16, Jesus also said "Amen, amen, I say to you, you must be born from above." This entails a lot more than simply belief. It's a dramatic change. A new birth, literally.

works are a proof of the holy spirit after salvation, so absence of works demonstrates lack of salvation

agreed, the term "believe" is not strictly knowledge

I really do hope that God is gracious and save my family who are unbelievers, so a part of me really want that to be true

I just read 1 Thessalonians and Paul called the dead "sleep", and also in 1 Samuel when Saul summoned Samuel from the dead Samuel said why did you disquieted me, which implied that he was in his sleep (quiet). But anyway my pastor believe that we're in heaven once we're dead. I'm just wondering what verses or what led you to believe it? Not an argument I just want to know your thoughts

Yes. This is exactly what Paul would've told us. LOL proddies are so dumb

I go by believeing in Christ as God. That’s all to be saved (not sure about baptism tho. It’s a good idea but not sure if it’s required. Better safe than sorry.)

I think the story of the Ethiopian and Phillip is pretty telling. In that short trip, Phillip had already told him enough about Jesus that the Ethiopian stopped the carriage and said "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" It was central to the Gospel for Phillip to even mention it.. or the other man to pick up on it that fast.

Fair point

Ultimately, it is whoever God judges worthy. I have no right to make an assertion. My guess, from what little I've learned, is that it is dependent on your relationship with God. If you had never known God/Christ, at judgement you either accept or reject Him and move from there. If you know God/Christ, at judgement you are measured by how much you accomplished as a Christian. This meaning Baptism, Confession, Prayer, Fasts, Communion, etc. You're "on the hook". Having said that, we are saved only by faith; but faith without works is dead. It is Gods final judgement that matters, and you had better settle as much of your issues with Him as you can.

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

Er, wrong. Deceased can appear to the living and interact with them, usually asking for prayers.

d. I guess.

A and a bit of B. I'm Orthodox so it's not like I have a choice here anyway. All those who are not Orthodox go to Hell when they die, unless they sincerely seeked to join Orthodoxy (such as by professing faith in Orthodoxy before being martyred, or by dying as a catechumen).
The sacrament of the Eucharist is necessary for salvation, and only the Orthodox churches have it. Christians outside of Orthodoxy do have the sacrament of baptism but they don't have anything else.
Note that unbaptized children go to Hell too.

I have seen that theory on 'spiritual' but not necessarily Christian people, like Manly P Hall or Hans Willhelm.
I dont dislike it, reincarnating in order to learn virtue and grace until you are worthy of ascending to God.
Are there passages in the Bible that points to that? Or it comes entirely form other sources?

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It's a good thing.

Your obsession with sacraments having saving power betray your allegiance, apostolicboi

You reeeeeaaaaally think that's the sum-total of protestantism, or do you not actually give two fugs because this was a rigged survey from the start?
Or do you think I am incorrectly reading you?

B.
You need to be in the Church, however the institutional Church is the visible form of the Church in Heaven. So, many who are in the institutional Church are not saved because they are false believers and thus not part of the Church in Heaven.
At the same time some who are not part of the institutional Church, through no fault of their own, yet follow God in the best possible way given their limited knowledge of truth may become part of the Church in Heaven. This includes people with true faith in Jesus part of other denominations and wise pagans (but only after judgment, not immediately at death).

B.
t. Gadolig

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What is trying to say I think is that we don’t follow the literal law of Moses, but rather understand what those laws were trying to enforce or prevent and try to live that out in faith.

Also c., since I’m GOARCH who has a soft spot for the more Anglo-Catholic parts of the Continuing Anglican movement and tradcat/Western Orthodoxy.

hey you're the one's who constantly profess the "salvation is by faith alone" slogan. Inescapably means you just need to believe in Jesus to be saved.

ie. the instrument of salvation is belief in Jesus.
The effective cause is Jesus' payment towards the faithful's crimes.
and that ultimately God is saving you.

on a side note on the effective cause… I'm certain you do not become pure spiritually from this in Protestantism, you just become forgiven of your impurities (that you still keep) by the payment. Such is the nature of a foreign payment accredited to your account, it alone in no way changes you internally at all. In Protestantism, the internally changing regenerating grace that is associated with baptism is not the thing that saves you, and necessarily isn't even required at all, because if it were, well then you would really be being saved by your purity, not the "payment that comes from Christ", which is Roman Catholicism - in Protestantism, "no one could be saved" by purity as no one can be pure… (even though in the old testament Abraham was justified by his works lmao).

Now in RC, your spirit needs to be pure to enter heaven, which is why there is a purgatory and a baptism, but your body still has it's learned propensity to sin (concupiscence) while here on earth even after baptism. You also must be baptized so you can be born of the spirit and not the flesh; which is absolutely necessary as our lord has testified [John 3:5].

ie The instrument of salvation is Baptism / the rebirth and overall regeneration of baptism.
The effective cause is your own righteous purity (attained through the grace of said regeneration/baptism).
and that ultimately God is saving you.

It's ridiculous to think something impure could enter heaven. I don't know how protties can unironically believe this. What wishful thinking. All that is the case here, is that the gate is in fact narrow, as our lord said. Just accept the responsibility, it is really not so hard a life neither is it so bad. Put down this rebellious spirit and live under the authority of the church; if those who do not honor their parents are condemned before God, then how much worse is it for those who do not honor his church?

Did Judas not betray Christ from the very beginning? Or what of the many false teachers Peter was constantly shepherding his flock away from? How is it that you can ignore this corruption, and yet cite the corruption of the church as a reason for disbelief? The devil has always infiltrated the institutions of the visible church - it's an absurd position to hold.

Peter teaches us that to be Christian is to be of one faith. No doubt, he said "one God, one faith, one baptism", even our lord himself had prayed aloud "that they may be one, even as we are one." John 17:21 - it is central to the Christian faith. Imagine then you go and make a parody of this teaching and produce thousands of faiths! How can one have such a faith? We are to be of ONE faith, not a jelly-mush of many. Do you not say this in your creeds, "one faith, one baptism for the remission of sins"? In fact, do you even say this? At this point I don't even know.

Know this, however. Those who corrupt the teachings and thereby the faith of the church will be sent to the unending fire intended for the devil and his angels. Those counted among the faithful will not pick and choose the faith at their pleasure, it is only to be held in totality as it is the divine law. God will not forgive you, great as your alms may be, neither if you spill your blood for him; no matter how great your faith is his wrath will remain upon you as God is impartial, until you return in unity and communion with his church - such is the grave importance of one faith. This community is the ark of all's salvation, outside of which is only death by the flood. It is a weighty and terrible thing to know, but it is in the end a righteous truth and a charity to be told.

Contemplate the thought "is there anything inside of you that can save you?", you will see that hope is rightly based on the grace of regeneration that comes from baptism. Though it is through our sinlessness we will receive salvation, we should only place our hopes in grace, as we only become sinless through grace. Imagine the man who puts his hopes in his righteousness, he will not remain in grace and soon enough will not remain righteous. Therefor work out your salvation in fear and trembling, for even the thought of damnation is a weighty and terrible thing, but work it with hopeful confidence in god's grace.

Far, far longer post than I should have put, but I hope this is of service to you. If anything I have said is against the faith of the Catholic church, I withhold, recant, and reject these statements. Praise God.

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Whoever to whom God gives the grace of leading them to salvation, and who continually responds to that grace.
Plus this

...

no, when the earth was formed, first was formed water, and the holy spirit filled the air.
When the flood came below, the spirit was above during the times of noah
When moses led his people out of slavery, they passed through the red sea, and the holy spirit was above. This is what you are doing when you baptize someone. You are christening them with the water and the spirit.

These factoids don't go to support your point

The parallelisms clearly necessitate that we're talking about both births, but either way you can not use this as a defeater argument against the fact that baptism is a work and works salvation is impossible Ephesians 2

catholic here, for me it's a hard A.
i think most catholics won't even end up being saved, unfortunately. i rarely go to confession, but whenever i do there are barely any people there. i think the church is doing a grave disservice to people by being so lax about these things. it seems to me that most people think religion is just a background thing, like a hobby, rather than the meaning of our life, and i think you relly have to be thinking about God 24/7 and living in accordance with Him as much as you possibly can even with the smallest, most seemingly trivial things, and that's what i'm trying to work towards. if i died right now i doubt i'd go to heaven.

Probably C

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:8‭-‬13 NKJV

You need to be an Orthodox Christian to be saved

That is your interpretation. Origen interpret it differently. The sinner will die, but only the sin in him will die. He can't enter the kingdom of heaven as a sinner, so he have to die (that's a frequent metaphor for baptism…). Every creature is in the book of life since it has being. It's what is saved. But the thing that is not life (that have no being) will disapear, the death will be defeated as saint Paul say.

I don't think there is a biblical explicit basis for reincarnation. But for apocatastasis, fathers of the church claim there is. Reincarnation is thought by Origen.

Ultimately other religions are a mystery, I can't imagine so numerous people being deceive by God's providence with religions that talk of God in truth, but for whatever reason, people who follow these religions for their salvation would not be praying God.
I'm definitly not in favor of a limitation of God's saving plan, since he wants all men to be saved.

A and B, with the caveat, that this can be accomplished in purgatory (for all those not catholic).

It's a good thing

Oh, hang on, I replied sarcastically to this a month ago

Why is this thread still?

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D

I don't know who's gonna be saved in the end, that's for God to decide. But while I'm here on earth, I'll love all of God's creations and follow His law to the best of my ability. And as long as you love Jesus and worship Him as your lord and savior, I'm not really gonna complain.

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have faith in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, son of God, God in flesh form, believe he died on the cross for the sins of the world and your sins, he was buried, and resurrected three days later, and you will be saved
Matthew 18:21-35 King James Version (KJV)
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

also this
Luke 7:36-50 King James Version (KJV)
36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.
37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

If you are against this you are a anitchrist no excuses

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