Latin Mass

Why do all these people who dont speak Latin want Latin only mass like whats the point in going to a Mass if you dont understand the Word of The Lord they read and their homily. It just seems so pathetic and larpy to think a mass whoms language you dont speak is superior.

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Homily is in vernacular,
also

I honestly don't understand the point either. Why listen to something you don't understand

Vernacular Extraordinary Form mass would be great, to bad you can only have it in Latin. Otherwise It's suprising to see how many people Catholic church converted when they pretty much had only Latin up until recently.

I go to mass to be relaxed and be around fellow Christians. 30 seconds chants won't help you better understand Him, you can do that in your spare time or with your group.
It's totally LARPy, but it's still cool.

I pity the fool.

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It's more important to be devoted at Mass than to understand it fully. Mystery is an important part of the religious experience.


1. Latin was the language of the Roman Empire, where Christianity grew, so it is a tradition.

2. The mass in Latin shows unity among Catholics. One can go a TLM in China and feel to be at home.

3. Latin is a beautiful language, therefore it resembles God.

4. Latin is a sacred language, used mostly in liturgy in the modern times, so it helps us to differentiate the mundane and the divine.

5. Latin is a precise dead language, which mean that words don't change their meaning over time. And this is very important since Christianity teaches eternal truths. It is not the same "hostia" and host.

Great explanation, the efficacy of the Mass is not at all contingent on our understanding or comprehension of it. In fact, allowing it to just happen helps me focus more on God's presence rather than the minutiae.

Vetus Ordo is a superior rite in just about everything, I can't really answer your question since I am italian and I can easily understand latin.
I only need to catch 2 words of the Gospel to understand which episode is being read.

It's just so beautiful the way it sounds like gibberish to me and I just love how I cant understand 75 percent of the mass I go to.

I wonder if 1500 years after (if) English has died as a language, people will claim it's a sacred language.

The Mass is a sacrifice not a lecture. If you actually believe this:
You are not a Christian.

The Mass isn't about you or the people in the pews. It isn't for your entertainment and it's irrelevant whether or not you understand the words being said, although you can easily follow along with a translated missal. The homily is always in the vernacular.

The new Mass has caused people like you to think that the Mass needs to be catered to your whims and interests and exists in order to be linguistically "understood", it doesn't, primarily. It has also caused people like to think that the Mass is about "relaxation" and fellowship, it isn't, primarily.

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And furthermore, the Church's tradition of sacred music and chant has been bringing people closer to Christ for the past 2,000 years. What do you mean the ancient liturgy of the Church won't help draw people nearer to Christ? You sound like a protestant.

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The TM in that picture is hilariously ironic. Is this what traditionalism has come to? A product to be marketed?

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Yeah, "traditionalism" is all a big product to be marketed. You've exposed our scheme based on that random picture I pulled out of my ass. We were raking in the big bucks before you came along, too.

Again, the Mass is NOT ABOUT TEACHING ANYBODY ANYTHING.


I'm not accusing you of being part of a conspiracy, I'm just saying, it's pretty ironic.

Ah, yeah I suppose, my apologies. I did just check that site out and the shirts they sell are super overpriced, and the marketing on the website is gross.

How to spot a prot that doesnt know what the frick he's talking about

The Gospel can, and often is in vernacular. The homily is always in vernacular.

It wouldn't be so hard to understand if it weren't forbidden to speak in the modern world.

English is by far the most common studied second language in the world.

t. exclusionist snob

The chants do sound majestic and creating serviceable melodies in all the vernaculars is probably one of the main impediments. Otherwise it would be reasonably desirable to have liturgy in every community's main tongue.

And there was a time when Latin was the language of the world. Now it's a dead language, claimed to be sacred. Hence, my IF … IF …
IF

I like Latin mass, but the liturgy of St Chrysostom in any language is better

Hey now, some Latin chants are among the best in the planet.

Maybe conservative Anglicans and KJV-onlyists

What's wrong with that ? Not my fault church is comfy.

And then people wonder why reformation happened

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this would be the best solution imo

The reformation happened because idiots like you prefer comfort and pleasure to the truth, so you listen to Satan. Luther was a monk who wanted to winnie the pooh women without feeling bad about it, that's literally the reason the reformation happened.

You and I know that's not true. Don't darken the holy mother church by spreading lies.

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Want to know why vernacular is terrible? For decades, the English mass was translated INCORRECTLY. Saying "Lord I am not worthy to receive you", but the Latin Mass (and the Bible) is literally "enter under my roof". So we have some made up line that's not in the Bible or the Mass and was there for decades until just recently they decided to correct it. And what's more hilarious/disgusting, I had to listen to a homily from a Priest who said he "hated" the change. Like what…

So yeah this is why vernacular is terrible. Plus the handshaking is gross and disgusting as well. Some people come to mass and are really filthy, coughing, homeless, etc. All you can think about is washing your hand afterwards. We don't need to do this nonsense. Latin mass is way better, more reverent, no stupid guitar songs with like twenty chord changes and the most idiotic melodies. Honestly NO in general is just gross. Learning the mass in latin if you want to follow along isn't even that hard, it stays the same anyways.

Desire for Latin Mass is a sign of extremism.

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Is it true it was encouraged/okay to hate jews before v2? I thought they didn't change any doctrine. SPLC is the last place I'd get facts from but I'm still curious about this point.

Because Americans and Catholic kids in culturally deprived countries want to find comfort in a culture they can feel nostalgic about but know nothing about. Extraordinary Mass is beautiful and all, but it's treated like a tv show you watch every week. That's why the bell is there: to get your attention after you stopped paying attention and say that the consecration is happening. Pope Pius X was vehemently against the lazy treatment the Mass had developed, hints why he started encouraging people to pray the Mass instead of just going to Mass and praying during. The issue of people lazily sitting and watching Mass was addressed by the liturgical reforms and V2, which is why Mass became more participatory. Thing is, a lot of converts get turned off of the New Mass because they want to be reverent but they end up at a parish with an irreverent population, but that's not representative of the New Mass. But the irony is that these people will say "Mass isn't about you!" but then immediately complain about things they don't like at an Ordinary Form parish.

Didn't post video

So you're saying your stupid.

Wtf I'm Latin vulgate onlyist now

Because they hate the bible and don't want anyone to hear it

Bloody heck people are stupid.

Ahh yes, protestant arguments.
Bit strange that the readings are either in vernacular or translated in the homily but hey got to have that fanfiction narrative I guess.

?

Didn't the eastern half speak greek?
So why won't the church make eastern catholics use Latin instead of their local language?
agreed
Would you also say greek is a sacred language? What about Armenian?

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Tiggro, please.

Lol you dont know latin?

This video is good even though I wouldn't endorse everything from them.

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It wasn't encouraged to hate jews, but you weren't expected to pretend they dindu nuffin, and the Church was far, far wiser to their tricks.

Honestly, I’m Orthodox and even I’m tired of Luther bashing. It has nothing to do with the thread. To have the main liturgics of Mass done in the vanacular was the Vatican’s own idea, Luther just happened to come up with something similar first.

And yet, Christ washed the filthy feet of sinners. Really makes you think.

Yeah, he WASHED them, he didn't play footsie with them.

Honest question: What is the mass about?

The Mass is a sacrifice. The literal sacrifice of Jesus Christ to God.

If it was used specifically as a special, liturgical language, I guess it, for exactly this reason, would indeed become a sacred language; ways of celebrating liturgy other than the Latin, Roman one exist in the Catholic Church, and the people who use these other ways use other langauges than Latin for this purpose.

That's blasphemous and abominable

lol OK you dumb Protestant. Literally no-one worshipped Jesus correctly until the 15th century, that makes perfect sense.

At the Crucifixion, the Son offered Himself to the Father for the forgiveness of mankind's sins. The very same sacrifice is what happens at the Mass; it is the same event cutting through time and space.

now THIS is protestantism!

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Never fails to amaze me that anyone finds this "argument" weighty considering it's literally just a baseless assertion by people who generally don't even know their own church's history past vatican 2

I've heard it before pal, I ain't buyin it. Not even going to bother explaining why it's false because the only response I've ever received is to repeat the initial statement

It's pathetic to think that Latin has a special place in Christianity because the biblical languages are only Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

So you have arrived at a truth that has eluded every Catholic and Orthodox theologian who has ever lived over the last 2000 years? Wow. That's definitely more likely than that the devil has used your own pride to blind you and trick you into damning yourself.

...

Wow homophobe, you're anti-gay? Looks like you've been blinded by your own pride and bigotry into thinking you're wiser than every Catholic and Orthodox theologian who've lived for the past 2,000 years

Christianity doesn't claim that Old Testament worship was incorrect. The opposite actually. The sacrifice of Christ is the completion of the sacrifices instituted in the Old Testament which renders the previous sacrificial law obsolete because it is a more perfect form of it.


What? No Catholic or Orthodox theologian has ever been pro-gay.

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You were unsuccessful in making whatever point you think you were trying to make.

No, you're just too daft

Latin is lame

And then people wonder why proteatants arent taken seriously

Vatican 2 said : "LOL, Stop hating the Jews, they are NOT our mortal enemies, #NotAllJews, #WeHaveNoEnemies"
Which lead to the catastrophic situation today, where we can't even name our enemies.

Imagine saying this while defending the modern mass with their weird rock or music bands.

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yeah, there's this one old dyke in my parish's band who rocks out with her guitar strumming two chords like she's jimi hendrix. and they all stand up on the platform in front of the statue of joseph and frankly i find it disgusting. latin masses are so much better

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Some people think everyone but them is extremist…

m.ncregister.com/daily-news/dc-knights-of-columbus-respond-to-senators-criticism

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During Latin (extraordinary form) masses, you can't even hear the priest, he may as well pray in Klingon. You'd know that if you actually went to a Latin mass. Hearing the priest and 'participating' in the mass was never the point, the faithful would just pray the rosary through the mass in silence. No singing, no dancing, no holding hands, no hugging, no clapping. Just silence and prayer.
Now, in SSPX chapels they give you small missal with latin text on one side and vernacular on the other if you reeeally want to follow what the priest is doing but it's really not important.

I do not want to be the guy that rants but:
You go to mass to meet God first of all.
Art helps you understand God because the beauty comes from God. There is nothing LARPy about the rite as there is nothing larpy about the chants

kek. For further reference see Revelation 2:9

Because its part of their culture so as their rites which are beautiful expressions of the devotion to Christ in several places.
Latin shows unity among westerns because we have a winnie the pooh load of languages and no one would understand mass if they went to France or Germany for example. Kinda like the tower of Babel.
Greek was the first liturgical language along with aramaich. The kyrie eleison is a remain of the Greek mass. Of course its a sacred language.
As for Armenian its beyond my knowledge. I have to get informed better.

Hating Jews just because was never the church doctrine. Even in the papal States Jews were allowed to live and practice their satanic rituals.
But every Jew is an enemy of the church and that still applies.
What VII condemns is antisemitism in the true sense of the world, since catholics aren't racist (in the true meaning of the word). Therefore it follows that not every Jew is guilty of the death of Christ because if he converts his race means nothing. If he remains a jew then yeah he is guilty.
I think E. Michael Jones makes some good points on this.

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Latin being a dead language is exactly why its superior for this purpose. Its meanings are known and set in stone, and since it's not spoken in everyday life, its meaning will always be the same and not subject to the whims of language deevolution.

There's also a bit of the call of the traditional in there. The latin mass is what was had for centuries, and it's reasonable to see the 1960s+ changes to the liturgy as strictly inferior to what came before.

It sounds cool :^)

Theres a booklet/pamphlet to follow along…Plus it is SILENT except for the priest/music. The entire atmosphere is much more reverent, holier.

Smh tbh lad

A thread died for this.

Might as well just Begome

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I like it because the priests who do the latin mass and the people that participate tend to be far more reverent (and based) than the average folk, and their churches tend to be quite beautiful.

but it isn't really necessary at all for it to be latin, for example the Marian priests tend to be quite good as well. I've attended some exceptional norvus ordo as well

...

You do have access to a book with the language you speak / Latin

Thus you can follow along with your language so you can understand everything. After a while you will start to understand the Latin and it becomes second nature.

I love the Latin Mass and wouldn't do anything else.

(On a side note - I took this picture on Saturday 2 Feb 2019 right after Mass and Rosary. If you don't see an angel with a trumpet over our Church then you have no imagination.

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Redpill me on them. What's the actual name of the order?
I think I've heard the same, but applied to fringe sedevacantists.

The same thing everything else in your life should be about:

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