>The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, often informally known as the LDS Church or Mormon Church, is a nontrinitarian, Christian restorationist church that is considered by its members to be the restoration of the original church founded by Jesus Christ.
en.wikipedia.org
So then why do you guys say Mormon aren't Christians?
Check the meta.
But your definition is completely arbitrary. We are Christian whether you think so or not. Everyone else considers us Christians. You think God only belongs to you? He doesn't!
The Mormons aren’t Trinitarians. Also they have some weird and wack theology like space God and multiple gods which is heretical.
I worship God, who is a trinity. You don't do this, therefore we worship different gods.
The Christian God is the Holy Trinity, which is the trinitarian God I worship, and you don't worship.
Therefore you aren't christian.
It's not an arbitrary definition at all. It's very cut and dry. We disagree on the fundamental understanding of God.
It's not Christianity. It's not only heresy, but it's dumb. You believe in a dumb heresy and you should stop.
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Oh boy here we go
Psalm 82, 1 Corinthians 8:5, the first commandment even assumes there are other gods. We believe in the same thing the early church did:
All of us can become gods, this is the plan of salvation, to partake the divine nature as 2 Peter 1:4 says.
We do believe Jesus is God, just in a different way from Trinitarians. We believe the Heavenly Father, Jesus, and Holy Ghost are three separate beings but they are one in purpose, that purpose being God.
Let me just ask you this for a moment: If Mormonism is true, and three Gods named Elohim, Jehovah/Michael and the Holy Ghost created our planet, and there are an infinite amount of other gods out there, why worship Elohim and Jehovah? They knowingly and willfully created a planet where there is disease, death and distructuon, and it’s not a stretch to say they enabled it since Michael said we should mess up and learn from our mistakes over Lucifer’s programmability (which now that I think about it might have been a subtle jab at Calvinism on Smith’s part). Why not just chose another god that DOESN’T let his creation turn to garbage? In mainstream Christianity on the other hand, we don’t learn from our sins, quite the opposite sins are moments of ignorance.
Yeah that’s probably one of the weakest arguments against Mormonism ever, but it’s something that shows that American NeoProtestant logic leads to heresy.
taken out of context
jesus christ this is retarded the only difference is that mormons say the father Jc and the holy spirit are seperate unique being thats still fill the same roles instead of be represetnions of one being in different roles that literally it why the winnie the pooh is this the criteria to determine christianity
Orthodox Theosis is nothing like your paganism.
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how do you know what god really is did you ask him ?
did he reveal it to you?
Same principle applies here.
I thought we were talking about why Mormons shouldn't count as Christians?
We aren't the same. We will never be the same. Mormons are not, were not, and never will be Christians.
Michael is Adam before he got a body, he is not a part of the Godhead in anyway. The Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are a part of the Godhead and we worship them as one God. We worship them alone because the Bible and the Book of Mormon tell us to worship them only. To worship others would be idolatry. Same principle applies to other peoples in other realities with their own divinities.
The world was created perfect. Man was supposed to live perfect, grow in the Mormon faith, and become gods. But Lucifer ruined that plan and now Jesus had to die for us to allow this plan to happen.
We are not pagans as we worship only one God like you.
In what way do you affirm John 1?
No, that doesn't apply here. We have a very specific belief that you completely contradict. Therefore you do not belong in the same group. The term "Christian" does not apply to you because you do not hold christian beliefs.
We believe it in a similar way to how Arius taught. Arius taught Jesus is God just not in the way Trinitarians say. Arius was a subordinationist and so were all the early Church fathers like Origen. It's a fact look it up. We believe in a form of Arianism/subordinationism.
lel I made that meme. Not sure I would apply it to Mormons.
Yes we do hold Christian beliefs.
We believe in Jesus is the Son of God, born of the virign Mary, crucified for our sins, rose three days later from the dead, ascended into heaven, will come back to judge the living and the dead.
We believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. We believe in holy communion.
We believe the Holy Bible (KJV specifically) to be the inspired word of God.
That's a blasphemous belief that was condemned by our prophet President Spencer W. Kimball. Brigham Young was highly misunderstood, see BYU:
Exegete Isaiah 44:8 for us, please:
Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
*INSERT MASSIVE ASTERISK HERE*
Right, there is no other God of our particular realm but the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). So we affirm this.
Mormons don't believe in the biblical jesus, they believe in a native American jesus that came back and handed out gold tablets n shiet.
Prove me wrong
But we believe in their existence just like all Christians do. Muslims or Jews or Hindus don't believe in these three persons in their fullness like all Christians do, including Mormons.
Jesus preached to the Natives but we don't believe he was a Native. Though Jesus and the Native Americans both came from the tribe of Judah so they both descended from Abraham and were related.
*insofar as it is interpreted correctly
Also you only use the KJV because Smith died before he could complete his modified version. However, even that was outdated by the King Follet Discourse and the Book of Abraham, which had he not died, could have changed even further to the point Smith might have even stopped calling his church Christian and full on made his own pantheon of Gods.
In some alternate universe, there is a shrine in Salt Lake dedicated to the God King Baurak Ale and his spiritual father Amen.
There's no God but YHWH, but in other realms there are Gods other than YHWH? Do you really think this was what the inspired author meant to convey?
There are no material textual variants on John 1:1 - do you really believe it doesn't intend to convey homoousion (consubstantial)? Read it again:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Compare that to Joseph Smith's translation:
In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Do you believe the Joseph Smith translation conveys the same meaning?
So only Mormons. Got it.
Absolutely. Also only Jesus is Yahweh, the Father is Elohim.
The scholarly community and non-Trinitarians in general.
Except you don't. You believe in something completely different and are trying to play word games to make me believe they're the same.
By stating that you believe that the 3 aspects of the trinity are separate beings that fill a "role" of God then you are describing something completely contradictory to the christian understanding of God.
You're trying to tell me what I believe in? I know what I believe in and I don't need anyone telling me anything about my beliefs. I know I am Christian. I believe in the Father, I believe in Jesus Christ my Lord and savior, and I believe in the Holy Ghost who told me the Book of Mormon is true. Also, see pic above , we worship the same God as you and we love him. Don't tell me what I believe in!
You're the one who's saying what you believe in. I'm saying that it's not what I and the rest of Christianity believe in. We are in disagreement. We aren't the same. You aren't a christian.
I am Christian and I don't care what you say. I have refuted you multiple times yet you persist.
Wait, what? Isn't that weird? What is Gen 2:4, eg, attempting to convey then? biblehub.com
And if you look at it in the Septuagint, YHWH Elohim in that verse is translated θεὸς (theos) - they don't even bother with two words! Do you think the early church believed what you're saying?
I pray that you will actually be a Christian someday.
Sometimes Yahweh was called different stuff in the Bible. Names change. Joseph Smith received the full revelation.
I am Christian. I pray that you will reject your apostate church and come to Jesus. You follow the Council of Nicaea, I follow Jesus. Amen.
I hope you understand I don’t feel animosity against you. I am merely trying to show you that your religon has been sanitized and normalized from how it was when your first prophets were alive.
That being said, ask a Moonie how they came to know the Divine Principle is true, or a SDA how they came to accept Ellen White as true, and they will both say, just like you, that the Holy Spirit told them their writings are correct, just like yours told you. But again, that’s the least of my concerns, as the Book of Mormon, being the first thing Smith ever wrote as a prophet is actually very doctrinally sound when compared to mainstream Christianity. It’s the later stuff, the stuff that tells you that God the Father was once a human who was raised to Godhood, and that your sins are just “stepping stones” on your path to godhood, that worry me (also don’t you believe that the Garden of Gathsemanie was the place Jesus REALLY payed for the world’s sins, and that the Cross was a symbol of betrayal and that’s why you don’t have images of the crucifixon in your churches or on the spires of your churches?)
I don't care what they say they are wrong and I know I am right. I know it because the Holy Ghost filled me. I don't care what anyone else has said. We walk by faith not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7).
That’s your deal. Just understand that the history of your church isn’t what you have been told in Sunday School, and that it’s ironic you claim we follow the Church fathers too closely when your own church leaders could receive a revelation tomorrow saying something completely contrary to what was taught before, and you have to accept the new thing no matter what.
We follow the earliest church fathers, your church got corrupted by philosophy. I don't care what you say because the Holy Ghost says I am right and you are wrong. And I follow the Holy Ghost not men.
You happy now Luther?
Right, and that's not a problem in a traditional read, because YHWH Elohim is know to roughly mean The Lord God, or the God Over All. But if YHWH and Elohim are different things, then you can't use just one word.
I note you haven't actually answered: What's
Genesis 2:4 saying if YHWH and Elohim mean different things? Here's the whole chapter, I have a hard time makings sense of it if what you're saying is true.
Joseph Smith received the full revelation.
Ok then. I don’t want to argue with you too much, because truth be told, even though your theology is whack imo, you stand up for Christian morality way more then most Trinitarians. At least I can say that you wouldn’t encourage abortions and gay marriage or immigration. I just pray that even if you are right, you grow humble and stop making threads just to stir up controversy or to try and convince those who already made their mind up. I ask that for myself and everyone here too. May God bless you, and may you read the Bible and learn what it teaches for yourself. Not what your church says it says, but what it actually says.
Mormon is certainly the least cucked of all christian religion. The head of the Mormon church isn't kissing streetrapist tigger feet at least. I've gone to alot of mormon events, not only is nearly everyone white, but nearly all of them are blonde too. So the Mormon church is a good place to look for a traditional white women. Rather or not the book of mormon is true, pragmatically, I'd say the mormon church is an excellent choice for any white Christians who are redpilled.
Heretics confirming heresy. Color me surprised.
Is your list of scholars also non-trinitarian?
Spotted the LARP
Look, if you're not sure, you need to look into it. You're being told things that aren't true. A big part of my spiritual practice is the intro to Psalm 24: The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
God owns everything. God does not fear truth, God is Truth (John 14:6). Seek the truth as one would seek a pearl in a field, and it shall set you free.
cringe
When the winnie the pooh did we get icecream?!?
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Even if I thought that the Catholic church was true for example, I'm not going to join or support a church who's pope kisses the feet of invaders. In fact, I doubt there is a true christian church. The Mormon church is certainly closer to what i'd imagine god wants, Ie. much more traditionalist than any other organized christian church i'm aware of. All of the other main christian churches are completely perverted. The only other christian church that isn't completely pozzed is the orthodox ones from what I understand.
What church are you the foot fetish church of somali? I think god will damn all the other large churches much more for declaring he is a woman and kissing invader feet. rather the book of mormon is true or not, the mormon church is a far more true and pure christian church.
Forgot to add, that for anyone to assume they have the complete and perfect written word of God is silly, because all of these books have been translated through many ancient languages by people with agendas. Entire books, or parts of books could have easily been edited, left out, or lost to history. My point is that basically all of the churches outside of the orthodox and the mormon church are so corrupt in the modern age, that anyone with common sense should know that they have drifted a long ways away from what God would want.
No, it’s a more WHITE church. In which case, why don’t you at least become a full on pagan or something, considering you have turned the rightfully good traits of racial preservation and morality into idols that you place over true doctrine.
Not only are you a faggot, but you're a relativist (as if there's any other kind)
Also I'm not a catholic. Saying God is a woman is heresy, and that foot kissing stuff disgusting virtue signaling.
Mormonism is just Christian fan-fiction. Smith made-up a bunch of shit, turned it into a book and millions have been believing it ever since. It's sad more than rageworthy.
This thread has three IDs I've counted so far defending Mormon. Is Zig Forums really THAT much of a threat to the world that it's "bring your heresy to work"-day everyday?!?!?!
>"Everyone else considers us Christians"
kek. The media still calls you "mormons", too.
>(((Intellectuals))) and people who are heretics like us in particular
Good to know.
Y U no finish? lol
Adam is Michael the Archangel. Now I think my heresy set is complete
Don't think Isaiah records God qualifying Himself, there.
#whatIsCatharism for example
< Mormonism: what church authority can get you but for the Grace of God.
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I'm sort of a Norse Germanic Christian hybrid. I think Christ may have been the God Baldur, Odin is God the father, and Satan is Saturn/Chronos. The Mormon church is the closest organized church to my beliefs. Hell the book of Mormon even says everyone used to be white before they fell into sin so long that God changed them brown/black. Literally white=right lmao. Both religions are pro-white. Mormons also do a great job of making white kids, and maintaining family values in their communities.
Not what I said retard. I said that I'll admit the Mormon church may not be 100% true, but it is likely the most true of all christian churches. The other churches which may have been more true in the past, are completely corrupt in leadership and as such cannot be trusted nowadays. I'm not a relativist, I just understand that no modern christian church is going to be 100% accurate to what Christ wanted, to much has been changed/lost throughout history to know for sure.
don't do that
How many wives are Mormons allowed to have?
how did we sink this low? should this thread just be deleted? isn't it against board rules?
Kissing migrant feet, lesbian priests, and God as a woman is probably a Godly original church. How do you know that you have the true 2000 year old bible, and not some book edited for 2000+ years by every jew who infiltrated?
If you are Fundamentalist Mormon, you can have as many as you can handle. Normal Mormons only get one, unless you can convince your first wife to go polygamist with you.
Why can't we discus the most pragmatic, traditional and true branch of Christianity. Outside of Mormonism all that is left is eastern orthodoxy, unless you want to start you own church up.
No, I was there. I saw all we oldfags using it. It really happened. The normies weren't yet sperm
"May not be 100% true"
THIS IS RELATIVISM.
Look up the word, user.This is getting embarrassing. Objective truth does not contain ANY percentage of falsehood. THAT WOULD MAKE IT RELATIVE.
Also your heart is in the right place for wanting to preserve your people, but you aligning yourself with completely retarded cultist.
Two reasons
This first one is why they're not allowed on this board. This board is for trinitarians only
This is why the greater Christian community (generally) doesn't view them as Christian. Restorationist churches are groups that believe that all forms of Christianity are wrong, and new divine revelation given to them uniquely is how God restores the true church. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, et al have new revelation beyond the Holy Bible. If they are Christians, why aren't Muslims also Christian?
If you can find a shred of archaeological evidence for the book of Mormon, maybe
THIS IS WHAT MORMONS ACTUALLY BELIEVE
Pretty difficult to find archaeological evidence for anything in the bible. Anyone of any religion relies on faith so.
There is tons of evidence for Jesus and the house of David, and some questionable evidence for Moses. Most other stories could have happened but there wouldn’t be a big archeological footprint (Abraham, for example)
What I’m talking about is the existence of horses and pigs in the Americas before they were discovered by the west
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