Between fallen angels and humans, who is responsible for sin?

Between fallen angels and humans, who is responsible for sin?

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Or rather, who is responsible and who is accountable?

Both are responsible, both are being held accountable.

Also we have a QTDDTOT thread up so that's where you should ask

Adam.
We are.
Humanity.

>Jesus said to His disciples, “It is inevitable that stumbling blocks will come, but woe to the one through whom they come!
Looks crystal clear to me mate.

You fall short of the glory of God if you sin, and everyone has sinned
Each sinner is accountable because the Bible says he deserves death because of his sin, but that accountability can be paid by Christ

I realize you're talking about the fall, I just wanted to clarify for all the other sins
Even though it was by deception, Adam and Eve were held accountable.
The deceiver will also be held accountable


good short answer

I have a more root question: would a just God damn anyone for the crimes of others?
What about ancestors?
Is it consistent with God's goodness that he would damn people for some inherited guilt from Adam?

Of course not, as you can see the Catechism of the Catholic Church does not teach that, so its obviously wrong.

Now comes the, how do we know the difference between good and evil if we have not eaten the fruit?

Because we watched bob the builder as children.

403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam's sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the "death of the soul".291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin. 292
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm

You are
and I am

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

>It is clear that the traditional teaching on this topic has concentrated on the theory of limbo, understood as a state which includes the souls of infants who die subject to original sin and without baptism, and who, therefore, neither merit the beatific vision, nor yet are subjected to any punishment, because they are not guilty of any personal sin
All answered.
Nope.
Not at all.

Outskilled/10

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I'm in agreement with your conclusion and that's the point I'm trying to make.
giving yourself a rating and posting some movie screenshot is really cringey though, please stop

This limbo doctrine is a catholic workaround to the obvious injustice related to original sin, and the obvious answer is that original sin (as in, guilt) is false
I would say the very idea of limbo is also counter to God's justice and at odds with the Bible sans apocrypha

Did David go to limbo, or did his innocent baby go to heaven?

I'm sure the guy that made the image would be a bit flattered you think that this is a movie screenshot, but moving on.

Cute idea but no, not really.
So far, to me, this confusion seems form your idea that all sins bring people to hell, which is untrue.

Neither. His baby went to Abraham's Bosom since this was before Jesus Christ's death. Not a single human has passed by to Heaven or even Purgatory yet.

...

What is the biblical illiteracy regarding Abraham's Bossom lately?

That was said on the same day Jesus Christ died for humanity's sins. Is that your best citation? Don't you have a earlier example of someone going to heaven?

1 John 5:16-17 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
Funnily enough, Catholic doctrine is the only one that approaches and explains 1 John 5:16-17. Just wanted to point that out.

I misunderstood you saying "Not a single human has passed by to Heaven or even Purgatory yet" to mean this our point in time. Did you mean to say "had" but now they're in heaven?

The death here is the first death, but the death of Romans 6 is the second death
There are sins that bring you to death, especially through execution
If you die, you can no longer repent (Heb 9:27)
If you lie, "a sin not leading to death", it's not certain you will physically die as a result

Every theological system has to address all doctrines mandated by scripture. The Catholic one is immediately self-contradictory with Romans 6 and 3, so extrabiblical systems have to be devised with "venial" and "mortal" sins, just like purgatory and limbo

another evangelical answer is that the sin unto death is ultimate rejection of Christ resulting in eternal death

Yeah.

That seems a bit inconsistent. 1 John 5 is talking Heaven, and the bit I quoted has this:
Life here means being alive in the Faith of Jesus Christ, correct? That relates to spiritual death, not physical death.

Additionally, If someone is going to die, would it not make sense to pray to them? Specially before their death where they might think things over and genuinely repent?
Why not pray for them?

life means "eternal life", not dying the second death.
I think you've cornered me on the execution thing, that can't be right. A murderer on death row can still repent.

Can you restate the catholic position for my benefit? is it "mortal" and "venial" for "to death" and "not unto death"?

For whose sin?

tiggerS

I wish to further my position.
Yeah. So when on 1 John 5:16-17, John mentions "I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death.", he is talking about Spiritual Death, because the context of the verse has been set on spiritual.

On Catholic Doctrine, perhaps you can translate this to,
"Pray to those that commit venial sins",
"But if someone sins mortally, you must talk to him about it".

Mortal sins send to hell, which is the second death.
Venial sins can lead someone to mortal sins and are evil, but don't send to hell by themselves.

Satan and all that decided to follow him on the angels side, and Adam and Eve on the human side.
Both creatures are responsible for their own sins.