So Ben Shapiro talked with a catholic bishop about stuff. What's are the resident catholics take on this interview?

look! a cryptojew!

does shapiro ever pull a "oy vey why did the church persecute us so?" during the interview

How seriously do Catholics take bishop Barron?

As far as I know he is a bit of a joke. He said hell is probably empty and cause of Christ everyone is in heaven I believe.

I can't sit through a whole hour of these 2 patting each other on the butt.

oh boy

Hmmmm something is (((odd))) here.

I wonder which 3 words you've spoken your whole life that Christ will judge you by. Remember: the measure by which you judge, so shall you be judged.

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But is that shit that hell is empty an unfortunate mistake or is it his life doctrine? From what I've heard some of his ideas are quite unorthodox.

How about these 3.

"Lets re-judiaze Catholicsm"

I wonder how many other 3 word nuggets Barron has waiting for us to discover

Judaize =/= modern day state of israel

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I was honestly more mentioning the oppinion of another catholic, I barely know bishop Barron.

So were Jesus's. Just sayin'.

Barron never said that.

Barron never said that.

Na in the posted interview he says he says "Catholicism could use some re-judiazing"
or something along those lines, my memory is bad.

His exact quote is

"I want to re-judiaze Catholicsm"
Its right at 49:00 in the video. About 2 minutes before is the context of the statement.

Judaizing isn't just limited to following mosaic law. It can also mean an openess to rabbinic interpretation of the scripture via talmudic teaching, as well as adherence to oral jewish tradition. Which to me is a massive red flag, but I'm not catholic.

Actually Jesus was a orthodox jew in the true sense of the word. True Judaism becomes Christianity.
Nothing that Jesus taught was heterodox at all. Quite the opposite.

While from what I've heard Bishop Barron views are novelties in the Catholic Church. And there can't be new doctrine.

No wonder I got banned from Catholic answers. This is the kind of thing they accept as a Bishop apparently.

Oh well, I still won't be unphased by the Church herself.. even if certain brothers in it have a sickness.

Oh for the love of God, stop slandering this guy, that's not what he said and what he said is quite respectable and hope-giving.
And this coming from an Ortho. Congratulations, you forced me to defend a Catholic bishop.

What did he actually said orthobro?
I heard so many shit from both sides that I don't know what to believe.
Is the hell is empty just a meme or did he really say it?
I also heard he said Jesus became more gradually aware of his mission instead of the Catholic doctrine that Jesus is all knowing, that is he knew exactly what he was doing here and why.

That's some Gnostic crap right there. They also believed Jesus progressively became "the Christ" (or rather, that the "heavenly" Christ came upon the man Jesus).

Just to add, the scriptures clearly state that Jesus wanted to go about his "Father's business" when he was still a child (or young man, technically.. in Bar Mitzvah terms). But he only ceased because he obeyed his mother and I suppose that was the norm.. to grow in stature "both to God and men".

Only thing he said that we COULD hope that, thanks to Christ and his infinite goodness, everyone shall attain salvation. There is a serious difference between saying definitely that no one shall be damned (what this guy is accused of) and saying that we can have hope in God.
Non of that does even matter for me, I don't even regard hell as a place in the first place to begin with. But I genuinely feel bad for this guy for getting all the schlack he doesn't deserve. I hate slander.

This is basic stuff, man. He is still showing himself to need just the rudimentary milk of the gospel. He's an overgrown baby. Shouldn't be a bishop.

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few." Mt 7:13,14

Exactly bro. But I've heard people saying Barron said otherwise.

That is wishful thinking at best, but not heresy. Therefore those who attack him then have no point in this.
I too wish everyone to be saved, but it's very likely that won't happen.

Yeah this. Jesus himself said that many are called but few chosen.
So it's just wishful thinking but taken to the extreme. It's not heresy but it's a bit stupid to believe that Judas for example got saved.
And if there are angels in hell why shouldn't there be men?

Hoping is a good thing, but this is false hope.. and I'm not even worried about how he appears to outsiders really. I worry that as a bishop, he's stunting other Christians' growth as well. He wants to be a wishful child apparently.. and keeps others the same as well. It's irresponsible.

This is exactly my point. I doubt that, simply because he doesn't force his will on is and doesn't force anyone to love Him and by personal experience there are people who simply hate goodness and abhor it. But whether or not I accept that idea, it's a hopeful thought that even several church fathers held.
But these people don't even accuse him on that, but slander this guy and altering what he said.

It's good to love and show mercy. This is the time of mercy, here on Earth. But once you get into denying the realities of REJECTING that mercy, or downplaying hell, it's bad territory. It lacks any sort of seriousness.

Here's Miryam..an actual baby in stature, but a giant in faith.. and she doesn't have one smug smirk on her face when talking about the things of God. When she tells you it's the Holy Spirit speaking through her, I think you can recognize the gravity. Same hopeful message, but not so trite and watered down somehow.

What?

This. We have confirmation that lots of people are there. Not just in the Bible but also in visions of the saints.
If I kept that opinion with me none one would be affected.
Now a sheppard and teacher saying this shit puts the whole flock in danger.
It is exactly this kind of thoughts these new theologies provoke.

Unrelated question isn't Bishop Barron that bishop who was fit was winnie the pooh? Or am I confusing the names?

It’s not a new theology. It can be found in people like Isaac the Syrian and the Eastern Church, before and after the schism.

No, it doesn’t. Hope that all men be saved =/= All men will be saved

Theologians (i.e. Hans Urs von Balthasar in his ‘Dare We Hope “That All Men Be Saved?”’) and Catholics who hope in this way do not deny that most people will be in hell, nor that hell is impossible.

The East doesn't teach a lot of specifics about the afterlife. It's why they can go from traditional fire and brimstone to "toll gates" to Isaac the Syrian. But Catholics are known to be sticklers for a more.. systematic/cohesive approach to things.

That may be so, but to Hope that all men be saved isn’t contrary to the faith and was taught by Eastern Fathers.

Don't have to say anything else for me to watch this.

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He did mention this in some other interview, I think it was with Dave Rubin and Peterstein. He said how "European Christianity" is very different from "American Christianity". AKA Protestanism was made for the Jews for the benefit of Jews, and real Christianity (deservedly) hates (((Judaism))). Bishop Barron is a Crypto Gnostic Atheist though. He thinks it's reasonable to assume Hell is empty, despite Jesus explicitly saying in scripture that only a few are saved, as well as the testimony of saints throughout history. He also believes that Jesus only fully knew "His mission from God" when He was baptized. This guy is probably one of the worst faces for the Church around today.

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Beautiful

It's not wishful thinking or reasonable to think everyone will be saved. Everyone will NOT be saved, this is a clear fact. Praying for the salvation of all men is totally different from actually thinking it's even possible for all to be saved, because it will not happen, because that would make Jesus a liar. How is all people being saved only a few being saved? How clearer does Jesus have to be when he says only a few are saved?

Yeah, arent we glad to have you to correct church fathers that held these ideas?

It's possible, in some sense. By Hell do you mean the outer dark, or the fire where satan is tossed in?

I really doubt you could stand your ground to Bishop Barron.
Let alone you spewing some fallacies and calling him a heathen.
Shame on you.
This man has brought more people to Christ than you could ever hope of doing.

Because morons like you take words clearly meaning metaphor as literate "fact" when Jesus also explicitly made it clear that he did not reveal all the ways of God to everyone. Even the first apostles probably didn't have all the knowledge and somehow arrogant pricks like you totally deny theological concepts by far superior people just because you don't feel like you could agree to them.
How clearer does Jesus have to be when he says only a few are saved?
This just proves your own total lack of understanding.
Jesus said all things are possible in God and hoping that everyone, eventually can/will be saved is a thought of of great grace.

You're totally overblowing what he said.
What the hell is wrong with people like you? Seriously.
You make it sound like he wants to chop up baby genitals and institute animal sacrifice or something.
Listen to what he says next. He literally wants Jews to be a part of Christ's church, not reducing Christ to something he's not.

/thread

I closed the video not even 10 seconds in.

It is exactly this dude Barron talks about a lot.
Ive heard lots of shit from this dude. I figure he isn't an orthodox theologian (as in orthodox Catholic, not a orthodox Christian)

churchmilitant.com/main/generic/faq-barron

Thanks user.

You honestly think I'll take this guy seriously, even over Bp. Barron?

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Jew and Gnostic together. The first enemies of the Church.

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When a Hollywood actor is a more based Catholic than even a Bishop.

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Mel is cool and I feel like watching one of his films now… but I wish Winona Ryder to be brought to the truth and saved. Not tossed into an oven. kek

No.

I think there's good in him, but he needs to lay off the drink.

If your source is a cringe inducing bowl of bad info, it definitely doesn't help your cause.

Trad sources unnecessary. I think you can just go to EWTN or something to find solid AND mainstream Catholic teaching… and it still will have a distinct, orthodox difference from the Barron type of stuff. Not sure why they're using his series for intro courses. And there's no doubt in my mind that Mother Angelica or a Mitch Pacwa brought more people to Christ than he has.

Uh what? No Jesus clearly says not everyone will be saved. Why are you going clearly against what Jesus said? It's not only not pious, it's idiotic and calling Jesus a liar to think that all people are saved. God doesn't contradict himself. Not all things are possible through God, such as God contradicting himself. Is it pious to wish that God lied in the past, since all things are possible with God? Believing that all people are saved is Satanic and going against extremely clearly what Jesus said. If that wasn't true then literally nothing Jesus said was true.

He's brought people to modern Catholicism, which is basically atheism, or actually worse than it.

No, It is impossible. Many are not saved, Jesus explicitly said so. What is wrong with you Barronites? At this point I prefer Steven Anderson to Bishop Barron and his followers.

lol.. seriously. Anderson actually touches on a lot of truth and has many of the same enemies. He just doesn't put two and two together and realize who is actually on his side or not. If he did, he'd come to the fullness of it.

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i hate this bullshit argument so much. warping the truth to lure more people in with you convenient lies helps no one.

I gave an accurate explanation of what judaizing means in the contemporary sense and purposely set that apart from his actual quote.
Then you waltz in and start projecting while attacking me for things I never stated.

Those are your words user. Not mine.
Stop being hyperbolic. Stop posting out of anger.

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The absolute state of the Catholic Church.

Which again brings up the same question I had in the Vatican II thread:

Why bother being a Catholic when I can be saved if I am a Jew or an atheist?

According to some, and he probably has some unorthodox opinions (I am particularly suspicious of his book ‘Razing the Bastions’), but so do Saints. But the problem with those people is that they cannot see anything but Thomism as orthodox (and it is orthodox, mind you, but so can a lot of stuff) and anything informed by other Fathers of the Church is basically heresy. I am exaggerating, but they typically aren’t partial to anything but neo-scholasticism.

He's funny to watch. He got completely blown out by Tucker Carlson, then turned to the camera to give an ad for online therapy, then started talking to Carlson about something else.

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sauce?

youtu.be/Bh8vqof9hAk?t=1739

lol
man, do i hate jews.

Ben Shapiro is just a joke. He's Jewish sure, but he's not some Jewish elite, he's a high school debater in a suit with a show.

bro, go to 7:45 to laugh your ass off

It doesn't really exists, and either in eastern orthodoxy at the moment.

You know, Tucker Carlson is cool enough to carry me through an hour of Shapiro, but Peterson is just so what ever

So when he was 2 years old, he was omnipotent and having complex inner monologues like the movie 'look who's talking'?

It says many are not let into the kingdom, that the door is shut, and the first shall be last, vice versa…. it doesn't say that they're thrown into hell fire so you are talking rubbish when you use that verse as justification.

The most offensive thing about all of this is that Bishop Barron apparently didn't take the hard true line that there is no (or almost no) salvation outside the Church.

No you didn't.
You literally said it would open it up talmundist jews and took Bp. words out of context that he wanted to make Catholicism more traditional based like Ort. Jews.
Don't you call me for what you're doing.

He isn't wrapping the truth, he literally knows more about the faith than anyone on this board.

I'm not going against what Jesus said, nor is Bp. Barron. What the hell is wrong with you people?
You literally claim dominion on God's word and condemn others because "that's just how I read it."

If the best of Christians like Bp. Barron is not welcome here, then this boards has lost its mind and I don;t want to be a part of it.

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Waah. Smarmy guy right. Mean guy wrong.

P.S. Are you a sede?

Bishop Barron is far from the best, he's likely not even a Christian or amongst the worst. But this thread and board are full of Barron fanboy and apologists.

And "that's just how I read it?" It's the consensus of the Fathers and throughout church history of the fewness of the saved. Enjoy following your false prophet.

Apparently Padre Pio said to a Catholic that his father who was an observant Jew *would* (not could) be saved, with no conversion. I don't trust these modern saints. Mother Theresa saying that a Muslim should be a good Muslim and a Hindu should be a good Hindu. JP2 saying let St. John the Baptist bless Islam (clear heresy) and so on. We live in dark times but foolish people support these people more than anyone else

But this was and still is the Catholic doctrine. Jews no matter what will not be saved unless they convert.
Although the Church is now softer with the Jews they still need to believe in Jesus to be saved that is explicit even from the Vatican II documents.
I'd like the source on what Mother Theresa said btw.

Ps: I don't even know why this is up for discussion.
Everyone knows that outside the church there's no salvation.
I don't know we're that meme from the Jews came from, but it's against Vatican II itself and plenty of documents that came after it saying that theory was wrong and heretical.

It's almost hard to believe this is real, it's like a parody.

You have got to be kidding me…
He's literally a BISHOP
Yeah. Maybe because he's good at being Bishop and spreading the good faith?
Well eff you too. Stuck up pooh.
I'd rather follow Bp. Barron than listen to crazed proto-baptist fanatics like you.

There have even been Popes who have been heretics (Honorius), being a bishop doesn't make you automatically not a heretic. Ordination is valid regardless of the sins of the ordinee, and being ordained doesn't remove free will, so of course a bishop could could be a heretic.
Are you actually claiming that the fewness of the saved is "proto-baptist" doctrine when it's been the consistent teaching of the Catholic Church throughout its entire history? That's just insane. The weirdest thing is that baptists these days are more Catholic than the majority of Catholics.

winnie the pooh this.