You fags need to catch up, your memorization of Critique of the Gotha Program isn't going to save you from getting kidnapped and the shit beaten out of you because you triggered a reactionary.
Do these mouthbreathers want a civil war?
Most likely, they just want to murder anyone that doesn't support their neoreactionary ideology. They were the same assholes responsible for the Unite the Right rally, back in 2017.
I wouldn't be surprised if they started hunting down "AntiFa" members and even murdering them. Better carry a gun and protect yourself, because the government doesn't give two shits about them.
Thankfully I don't live in the US but hopefully these larpers will just cast more discredit on themselves. More than their demise, I hope a credible leftist movement will take root in the US. The country is on the decline and material conditions are degrading at an alarming rate.
Even if they do, it's absolutely irrelevant. At best, they'll go to jail, join the aryan brotherhood and become even more dangerous criminals.
At this point, everyone should trust the government at their own peril. Patrior prayer are the sole reason I open carry my H&K USP at all times.
I meant *worst
THREADLY REMINDER THAT HAS NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG
Good stuff. It's about time we see some bloodbath and deaths. Might be just what the left needs to stop being so soft and retarded and finally wake up. I've thought their funny little march and killing a woman last year would be enough to finally make people see what's going on and act but it seems like more people need to die.
Shitposting flag checks out.
Clearly a porky.
What the Trump regime would like best is a domestic enemy they can rally against. Don't take the bait of escalation.
Das rite. When those fuckers appear out of nowhere to fuck with you just let them shoot at you and then throw some flowers back at them.
In interest of correctness they aren't the Charlottesville guys. UtR was openly white nationalist, patriot prayer is just civnat christian conservatives
You realize that you won’t win a civil war?
No civil war is going to break out. There's no reason for violence without reason. But if these crypto-fash groups start beating on leftists in the streets they should get a taste of their own medicine
Seriously Antifa isn't doing anything productive which is why anyone who isn't Antifa doesn't support them. They're not doing anything for communism,they don't rally the people they attack equally irrelevant people for a false sense of satisfaction and idpol. You go punch a fascist, get punched back, and then go home. Then tell people and convince them that the only way to fight is communism. That's bullshit but if you do I'll finally respect you.
Actually you should de-escalate and have a large, non-violent protest which both shows them they're not wanted while also not taking the bait OP
I bet you think capitalism can be overthrown peacefully too
I really don't see the point of these guys bringing guns to these rallies. What do they think is going to happen? Someone from the other side starts shooting so you shoot back? But then what? They must know there are police snipers waiting in the rear and they will start dropping people.
Totally unrelated to the point they were making, good attempt though.
If you use guns you're just going to get killed by the cops or arrested after the fact and brought up on serious felony charges. Can almost guarantee that.
Violence is an extension of politics by other means and erupts when non-violence fails to resolve the underlying political conflict. The conflict emerged when this guy, Joey Gibson, wanted to march in Portland with these assorted civnat livesteamer Jerry Springer fans in the mix along with WNs. But the antifas so far haven't been able to deter him so the situation is at loggerheads.
Really, at the end of the day Joey is bringing in a whole bunch of actually insane people who are looking for a fight. He says he's just trying to make a statement ("Portland wants me to shaddup and I'm not gonna") but the people who are coming really do want to fight. They're on their FB pages saying they're going to come and create bloodshed and all kinds of deranged stuff.
It's like when a conflict escalates past what it was even about and takes on a life of its own.
So the left in Portland has three options. It can either (a) surrender and not do anything, (b) continue doing what it has been doing by relying on the black bloc, or (c) turn out in large numbers and have a big protest and then just stand there and fight back if attacked.
Don't think they're going to go with (a) and (b) is not working. So imo it sounds like they're preparing for the third option from what I've seen.
Fucked up to realize the alt right and, heh, the nefarious proud bois, havent committed any act nearly as repugnant as the israeli ethnic nationalists cheering on the dying Palestinian boy. How many years will holocaust guilt be leveraged against the entire world while Israel more and more closely mirrors Nazi Germany
If I was a porky, why would I be warning about natsocs? Besides, even if it's manufactured by porky, the H&K USP is a great pistol to put down those fuckers.
That's my whole point. We need to defend against these fucks. The whole intention of Patriot Prayer is to intimidate the left with threats of violence, so they can terrorize freely anyone that doesn't share their white supremacist idelogy.
Of course, senseless violence is off the chart, if we can avoid it, but the left cannot pretend to rely on the government. Heather Heyer was killed back in 2017, the government did jackshit about that. We are alone, the white supremacists have the government by the balls.
All these pansy-assed "muh pacifism" liberals need to fuck off. Either step the fuck up or go to your safe spaces, fucking normies.
It was a joke about you having enough money for an HK, you sperg.
You wont do anything except bitch online
I completely agree with you, I don’t understand why you’re getting shit ITT. The government is not our friend and white nationalists / crypto-fascists (not to mention idpol in general) are getting worse in the US. There’s a mentality on imageboards that we should never do anything, doing anything is LARPing. It’s cancer. Leftists need to organize against this stuff. All of this said, be careful what you say online
I agree you should be able to defend yourself. I have friends who have been harassed out of the blue by neo-Nazis for daring to participate in the most lukewarm social democratic reformism. You also cannot rely on the cops.
I don't think this is quite accurate. I read a lot of neo-Nazi sites to see what they're talking about and they simply do not feel this way. They felt that way for a time and it was a major misreading of the situation. The guy who killed Heyer is potentially facing the death penalty for what he did and several others have multi-year prison sentences resulting from the violence there.
Honestly you sound like these alt-right guys I was reading before UTR. They talked in exactly these terms and it blew up in their faces really bad.
But guns win wars? Even without the government on the side of the people, they would still win against you. Even when the government is on your side. Stay low, don’t take the bait, for your own sake.
I'm a fan of "everyday anti-fascism" I guess as most people don't like Nazis and don't like Nazis screwing with them. I think organizing those people will bear fruit over the longer term than relying on some uber-militant left-wing militia group.
I mean there's a reason why these fash groups have largely stuck to sneaking around at night for harassment jobs, or when they actually organize, pick largely white and liberal college towns. If they tried to do a big rally in a place like Chicago, Dallas or Philadelphia they'd get wrecked because ordinary people would turn out. Black and brown populations will also not play games with these guys.
Like Indonesia. Work your arachnohoxhaism counting neighborhood to neighborhood.
No, dude. Your mission while these guys are around are to literally wipe out anything that does.
We know their transnational organizations. Hoxhaism u far-right disappearances from indonesia-frisco gang. This is the age you are in, no big, grow vegetables.
Yes, and the problem with this is?
This. Let the liberals, FBI, and cops take care of LARPers, we socialists have more important things to do. Want to actually fight capitalism? Blockade pipelines and ports against harmful commodities, support unions with illegal strikes, occupy workplaces, strike against landlords, etc.. Don't forget your guns. Unlike LARP, such activities are illegal, meaning they're actually transgressive against the interests of capital.
Waco started as a siege against a fundamentalist death cult, not a peaceful protest that escalated into muh violins.
Sorry meant to clarify. I'm talking about the biker shootout in Waco that left nine dead in 2015. Fight broke out between the Bandidos and Cossacks at a restaurant, weapons got drawn, some shots were fired, and then the cops started offing people with AR-15s which put an end to it. Afterwards the state put the hammer down on both groups and started collecting uncashed checks on the leadership and many members.
Point taken. I should've chosen more thoughfully my words. I'm mostly pissed off about these "muh pacifism" liberals that think shitposting on 4/Zig Forums is somehow "radical" or that they are making a change.
We are outnumbered by fascists. We are outgunned by the militant right. They have all government power; meanwhile, the left is cannibalizing itself with identitarianist and sectarian horseshit.
Socialism is about unity. We need to stick together, regardless of race, sex… whatever and defend ourselves against those fucks.
Pro tip, LARPers: The militant right doesn't give a shit about your edgy memes. They are coming for you, while you're regurgitating that useless ass frog meme. If you're not gonna do something about the fascist rise on america, then GTFO.
Fuck. I forgot to add my manarchist flag.
The problem with this is, the government are handing them an even bigger safe space to become even more dangerous criminals. Are you seriously trusting the government to protect you? The very same government that blamed the left for Charlottesville?
Buy a gun; learn how to use it; join your local leftie militia. These Proud Boys and Patriot Front motherfuckers are no longer dicking around or LARPing as edgy provocateurs. They are willing to kidnap people, possibly even kill them.
What more wake up call does the left need to actually get their shit together? SJWs and feminists are utter retards; that has been regurgitated ad nauseam. Right now, both Partior Prayer and Proud Boys are the bigger threat.
We are not talking about a civil war. We are talking about an agressive self defense against those fucks. If they are organized to terrorize anyone that isn't a white supremacist, carrying military-grade guns no less, why the left is segregated under sectarian horseshit? We need to form a DEFENSE militia group, ala old black panther party.
Pacifism is bourgeois ideology. Porky & Co love "pacifism", because then they can crush you with their armed forces/mercenaries.
Preventing fascists from organizing in the west is productive you fucking tard. You need to realize that communism will literally never happen in a core imperialist country. As America falters its petite bourg will become more and more radicalized. The goal of antifa and all other revolutionary defeatists is to prevent reactionaries from seizing power and carrying out their agenda, both domestically and internationally before America is completely dead.
Like what? Get beaten up by fascist gangs while trying to protest pipelines? Fuck off back to your vegan bookclub.
Full on fucking agree. The entire raison d'etre of the militant right is to intimidate us and terrorize us to be complete classcucks; not to mention that they are more than willing to use violence, possibly even kill, all their political opponents. I used to be an anti-AntiFa dipshit, in the name of centrist faggotry, but I soon realised their important job on preventing the rise of the militant right. Like them or not, they are our comrades in arms, at the very least.
Wake the fuck up, fellow lefties. Shitposting generic as fuck memes isn't gonna drive back the rise of the militant fascists. As I said before, the government PROTECTS these dickbags, creating a safe space for them to terrorize anyone that doesn't share their white supremacist ideology.
You don't fight fascim with fascism (cops, military, government, etc). ´You fight fascism with socialism. We are the natural enemies of the fascists and it's our job to erradicate those fucks.
No, both LARPs are outnumbered by liberals. Still beating on that strawman?
SJWs and feminists are utter retards; that has been regurgitated ad nauseam. And yet they maintain an absolute monopoly chokehold on the leadership of every leftist org from the most milquetoast center-lib garbage fire to the most "radical" "socialist" groups.
Yup, just bring enough liberals to make them sperg out at counter-rallies, and the po-po will put them in the can. If some closet fash cops get outed and fired, so much the better. Uh oh, you gonna start up about "labor aristocracy" next? That wasn't "fascist gangs", it was national guard troops. You know, the actual footsoldiers of porky, rather than the LARP distraction for lifestylists like you?
When I'm adressing "liberals", I'm refering to the so called "socialists" that think pacifism somehow works against the bourgeoisie. No war has been won without violence. That's a fact.
The militant right is armed to the teeth and the government isn't gonna do shit about them; in fact, they actively protect them. The fascists are enjoying their biggest momentum in history, since the ww2 era. They act with almost complete impunity to terrorize left wingers.
Feminists and SJWs maintain a complete monopoly on the leadership of mainstream left politics because the actual left is shitposting on 4/Zig Forums, instead of joining their local leftie militia. THAT'S THE PROBLEM, NOT LIBERALS.
How about this? We get together and combat the rise of the far right?
Really? The National Alliance had a Charlottesville-sized rally in D.C. in 2002 and there's barely any record of it, and that was a vertical organization with an actual HQ bringing in a million bucks per year. In my city in the late 80s there were real neo-Nazi skinhead gangs. They're more organized than they have been in years, true, but I can go downtown now and not worry about being jumped by some fash.
Also in Britain I don't this Free Tommy stuff is close to the National Front in the 70s and 80s.
We never fire the first shot, because we're the heroes. We organize, we impose reforms, we weaken capital, and we shift public opinion. Only once we have the numbers to win an election, and porky completely shuts down the ballot box by force rather than be legally eliminated, do we have both the numbers and the justification to fight a war. The last right-radical group with genuine threatening legal impunity, the KKK, was almost completely suppressed decades ago. Everything since then are petty criminals with a splash of fash paint, or delusional LARPers, all lousier with LEO informants and plants than the American Communist Party. I really, really hope the few thousand UIPs spread across here and the handful of gulag memers on Twatter/NSABook aren't all there is. I like to imagine that within the rank and file of activist orgs, and perhaps spread among the centrist normalfags of labor unions and charities, there are tens of millions of isolated socialist ideologues.
What I mean is, the fascists are having their biggest momentum worldwide; Charlottesville et al are simply the tip of the ice-berg.
During 2017, and early 2018, most of the terrorist attacks, at least in the US, were perpetrated by white supremacists. That's a serious alarm no leftie must ignore. They are not targeting the government; they are targeting left wingers and minorities.
Compared to the events you listed, the neoreactionaries/fascists have government support right now, and lukewarm at best opposition by pansy-assed chicken-shit liberals, in the name of "pacifism" and "tolerance". We are giving them hugs as punishment, while they drop the hammer on us.
Of, for fuck's sake. I forgot to add, yet again, my flag.
Good luck with that, when they fire the first shot against you. Do you seriously think those asshats give a crap about your pacifism? They are gonna intimidate, at the very least beat you to a pulp, while you're embracing bourgeois pacifism.
True but that has been the case since the early 1980s at least. Don Black of Stormfront even convinced some of his KKK buddies to try and overthrow the government of Dominica in the early 80s by convincing them that Reagan had their backs. The feds intercepted them before they set sail in a boat full of mercs, guns and ammo.
Hate crimes went up in the 1990s, escalated dramatically after 9/11 and stayed high until Obama came along, when they plunged down. They spiked after Trump got elected and have likely gone up in 2017 and 2018 but the long-term historical trend isn't as dire as you suggest. I still think you should take white supremacist groups seriously though.
While that source you're citing is actually quite informative and valid, it merely lists up until 2016. There's no official data for 2017, but based on several violent events following Trump's ascencion to power, including the infamous Unite the Right rally, most of them are associated to the alt-right, neonazis/white supremacists.
Hate crimes, along with mass shootings/terrorist attacks are on the rise. Almost every day on the news, independent or not, there is a documented case of a hate crime.
Also, we need a breakdown of the nature of those hate crimes, pre 2016. During the Bush's era, I'm betting over half of them were against Muslims. Remember 9/11?
Go back and look at the chart. There would be 700+ hate crimes per month during a Bush year. Of course there's hate crimes every day. There are 300+ million Americans.
Yes, they've surely gone up. Yes, you should take it seriously and organize. No, it's not the end of the world that demands the most radical, militant action (which comes with it a lot of problems – namely, the risk of you over-estimating the actual militancy of the situation and fucking up).
Anti-Muslim hate crimes after 9/11 yes, and also anti-gay hate crimes during the Bush years.
I suspect the big spikes recently are in anti-Semitic incidents, and also crimes targeting the transgender population.
Most hate crimes I hear on the news are of white supremacist nature; the overwhelming majority of them against black people and mexican immigrants (or even mexican-americans).
See a pattern here? They are focusing on white identity politics, not about the islamification of the country, like Europe does. It's about white supremacy.
Aren’t islamification and white supremacy in mant ways linked though?
The report suggests a forecast of a "small to moderate increase for hate crime in 2017" and also "a significant national decrease in 2018, but only for the first half of the year." (Because the second half of the year is only just starting and they don't know.)
It's hard to say whether anti-black hate crimes, long a leading category, have increased substantially. The report notes that in Los Angeles, anti-black hate crimes have increased by two percent in 2017. Anti-Hispanic, up 28 percent, and anti-trans which increased 187 percent. Most of this is in the form of property damage and vandalism but some of the crimes can be violent.
"Despite the consecutive increases totals remain far below various highs tallied in recent decades."
Yes, but apparently neo-nazis and white supremacists don't like Islam at all. Just go to any of Zig Forums's threads about Islam.
Either way, the escalation of violence is something to be concerned about. We are relying on the government that actuvely protects them. Neither the government, nor the establishment, give a fuck about the rise of the militant right. Most socialists are LARPing as pacifists and the entire left is divided by sectarianism.
The absolute state of anti-antifa "leftists" in the west.
Fair Enough. That being said, the fascist right has now become a mainstream movement. We were pushed underground by them, if only because we went to our comfort zone and allowed liberals to speak for ourselves (feminists and SJWs).
Right now, they are not targeting liberals. They are targeting us. Liberals are merely enjoying the shitfest and becoming even richer in the process, mostly because they are preventing us from gaining control over them.
I admit I used to be a sectarian dickhead, arguing the same shit, until I came to my senses.
I might disagree with marxist-leninists and ancoms, but I acknowledge that they, along with AntiFa, are our comrades in arms.
Enough sectarianism. Let's actually "unite the Left" if you must, and smash the right.
You know even Lenin started as a reformist, only resorting to open revolution when peaceful protests were met with massacres, and returning to reformism after each revolution up to the civil war, right?
Please don't lump me in with them, I'm actually capable of remembering history before Trump.
I honestly think the bigger problem is libs tarring all leftists as sexists/racists/fascists/etc, and right wingers merrily going along to call for our suppression. We have to gain control of some degree of organization and start building class consciousness.
You're just chock full of hot takes today, aren't you christcom-kun?
You LARPers can beat up eachother for being yhe wrong kind of LARPers but don't you dare do it under my colours. You can call these fuck-ups 'fascists' and you can call fascists 'the footsoldiers' of capitalism, but change a couple of words and that's how they see you - you are the bogeyman to eachother and getting rid of one or both of you won't fix the conditions that make you. I spit on your heart, cointelfa.
…the working groups are starting to ask if you have something meatier and/or not web 2.0 in frisco.
Murdering the Tzar and his family (rightfully so; not a single tear shed for that fucker, nor his worthless family) isn't what I call "reformism", nor "peaceful protest".
Neoreactionaries and fascists are merely the tool of the bourgeois to repress any form of leftist revolt. Liberals enjoy using the fascists as pawns; they are merely their useful idiots.
Liberals are our enemies. They'll always seek to supress us under any form. They are using idpol horseshit, both left and right, to attack us. Uniting with liberals is like uniting with neonazis to "overthrow" the ruling class. None of that's gonna happen.
That being said, if you want to create an anti idpol mainstream left wing organization, with a militia tendency (albeit not violent per se; merely pro agressive defense),I'm down for it.
Joey Gibson himself advocated for kidnapping Antifascists and beating them in his podcast. Patriot Prayer are already known for several hate crimes, and are borderline terrorists.
Nice try, fashie.
How come the Russian Revolution worked then. You need to realize that the success of communism is never defined by a nation it's defined by it's people, you're doing nothing but dancing with the one's that don't matter thereby associating as not mattering either. Do you not realize that even with this coming to it offers a perfectly good chance to market communism? Do you not remember the various civil wars between right and left through the 30's? So long as you keep attacking fat Zig Forumstards with maga hats you're just making us look bad and accomplishing nothing beyond that.
Are Antifa fags just delusional children who think revolution happens when they want it to and doesn't take time to craft? No one is saying that we don't need violence God fucking knows we need tons of it, we need to kill at least half the population of the Earth since they most likely won't be reasoned with but fighting equally delusional fascists isn't the same as a fucking revolution. You're not fighting Hitler and the SS you're fighting Kensworth from the supermarket and you're not shooting each other you're slap boxing on the fucking street while people film you and laugh. How fucking dense are you people?
You people really are retarded aren't you?
Took place well after the civil war, let alone the numerous revolutions, each spurred by acts of violent suppression against peaceful agitation. Yes, but they seek the same for fascists, too. Why not use them for this purpose, while we do what only leftists can?
We are not afraid of them, given that I'm advocating for a left wing defense militia. The so called "muh pacifism" socialists are, however, which apparently includes you.
I'm calling lefties to arm themselves and unite against the fascists, a lot of people in this thread are relying on the very same Antifas that prevent those sacks of shit from growing, all under their self aggrandizing sense of pacifism.
Stop strawmanning. Being aloof from LARP is hardly the same as saying you should be pacifist against someone that could actually threaten you in a circumstance other than organized street theater events.
You're not going to prevent fascists from growing, Weimar led to both communist and fascist revolts for reasons. Liberal capitalist republics lead to fascists, you can only capitalize on this as it leads to communists rising as well. I'm not saying don't be pacifist I'm saying know how to organize a revolution antifa is falling flat on it's face and fascism is rising faster than communism for a reason.
i follow a couple accounts like this on instagram pretty bad ass euro dudes beating the shit out of fascist and reactionaries
That's good and all Europe Antifa is generally better than American Antifa, the problem still stands, what exactly are these people doing other than "WE BTFO LE GASSY FASHY EQIC STYLE." What have they done to fight against the liberal controlled EU that tricks Europeans into living under slightly well off conditions and thinking that socialism is when the government does stuff.
Ultimately it's a two-track effort where you get involved in socialist organizing to build the political base to oppose fascists while also doing anti-fascist stuff at the same time so you know who the hell the fascists are. Before you even think of doing something hands-on you're doing info-gathering, which is also handy if the local neo-Nazi gang gets the bright idea to harass the local socialists / synagogue / mosque / immigrant rights group. It may seem scary and frightening but if it's two guys who are known to you and your crew then you can more effectively get them to knock it off.
It's basically a spy game. Who are the neo-Nazis in your community? How do they organize? Where? With who? If there are multiple groups (say, in your state) then what are the differences between them and how do they overlap if they do? Every time they do a flash mob, rally, post up flyers or do… anything at all IRL, map it out. (You can use a custom Google Map to mark incidents and also have custom icons for the different groups!) For instance, did you know that neo-Nazi flyers on college campuses have declined precipitously in 2018? It was a big thing in 2017, but this year most of the activity is taking place in suburbs. Talking about the U.S. here.
A lot of the reason the alt-right has had problems is because of very effective monitoring which brought down consequences on them after Charlottesville.
Also remember that the modern white supremacist scene is more of a loose social network and the actual "parties" and organizations are constantly in flux. There is dual membership. A group screws up or infighting breaks out so they rebrand. The U.S. has seen the collapse or breakup of two important neo-Nazi groups in the past year. Another one changed leaders three times. Even local cliques break apart in infighting over the pettiest reasons (fighting over access to the few women in the movement is a big one). So think of terms of social network analysis as a way of figuring who they are and how they're organized.
Antifascism loses all revolutionary meaning when you end up protecting a synagogue/mosque/whatever other reactionary religious bullshit in the name of protecting muh democratic pluralist bourgeois society from the eevul racists. Racism is shit and needs to be eliminated but so does religion, and your typical churchgoers from whatever religion are not worth putting your ass on the line for. They are also enemies of communism, just as much as the nazis. Look at Catalonia in '37 if you want to see how great making compromises to defend the democracy pays off for a revolutionary movement. Hint: it doesn't
Umm… …exactly. Do you have a source, as if I do not ride this guy's nuts 24/7 like you? Not having to believe random internet anons is an inherent part of soviet process. Having data that is exact and precise, it's good for this magical little revisionist theory called "directly get up and do the shit," this is on "librul gib me mune" right now. Meat, fucker, sauce.
oh and Proxy-friendly download? Link to hack the sound data out of a fucked-up page?
Seriously, I don't fanboy my day around fool.
Ok. For every single socialist LARPer here, still bitching about "muh fake newz111!!", here is Joey Gibrson's himself, talking to Alex Jones, saying what that tweet specified:
Well think of Cable Street here. That was an attempt by blackshirts to march through a Jewish neighborhood.
The point is preventing (in the case of a majority Christian country like burgerstan) the rise of Christian-identity movements and general violence by idpol groups. Obviously, in a majority Muslim/Buddhist/Hindu/Jewish/etc country, temples being burnt down and priests executed is fine, especially if it's being done by atheists.
The point is antifascism doesn't do anything to destroy the State/Capital. I'm not saying that fascists/racists shouldn't be fought, but that antifascist ideology is hypocritical and self-defeating. Proletarian self defense > Antifascist defense of democratic pluralism
Certainly, we have our own agenda that nobody is going to do for us. Siccing libs on far right groups, though, is certainly something simple enough not to interfere with our own activism.