Is there an actual solid Biblical reason for why the Second Coming doesn’t...

Jackson Nelson
Jackson Nelson

Is there an actual solid Biblical reason for why the Second Coming doesn’t occur by Jesus literally being born again?

Inb4 Hebrews 9:27
It’s appointed for men to die once, but never to be born once.

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Jason White
Jason White

He is alive, sitting at the right hand of God the father almighty, from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

William Jones
William Jones

There are a number of different metaphors and images that endeavour to capture the inter-trinitarian relationships, not the least of which is Augustine’s De Trinitate and Boethius’ De Trinitate, etc. etc. Right hand of the Father is a scriptural and creedal spatial image for what is by definition beyond time and space, eternal. Andrewes has another touching image, the Holy Spirit as the love-knot of the Father and the Son. This isn’t a proof.

Hudson Brown
Hudson Brown

Jesus still has a body.

Adam Torres
Adam Torres

Did Jesus not have a spiritual body before the incarnation too though? So this fact alone doesn’t preclude incarnation.

Nathan Reed
Nathan Reed

The angels at the ascension said he'd come back the same way he went. Jesus himself said it'd be as noticeable as "lighting flashes in the east and is visible even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be."

Josiah Nguyen
Josiah Nguyen

Pretty sure the son of man is just a temporal title. The son of man will indeed appear this way. It doesn’t mean that the Word doesn’t incarnate twice.

Nathan Howard
Nathan Howard

If He returned as a baby again it would presumably be a low key event. Yet He warned us against people saying saying "Look, here is the Christ" "There he is". His return will be unmistakeable - the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great glory. And if you go to Revelations you get Him returning at the head of the armies of Heaven.

Jackson Parker
Jackson Parker

Certainly it’s low key. Wasn’t the first incarnation also low key? The build up to the grande finale takes place behind the scenes either way.

Parker Morris
Parker Morris

I seems you agree that it’s in principle possible. I don’t see why you use the word “yet,” there is no contradiction between the silent reappearance of Jesus in the flesh and Jesus warning not to pay attention to those saying that they know who or where he is. On the contrary, these concepts agree mutually reaffirm each other.

Ayden Bennett
Ayden Bennett

The Son of Man means "The Human One". He IS ALWAYS THIS.

Ugh. You're just here to spread idiocy. Not learn. The Church has never taught any of this. The only person I think even said anything as stupid was Edgar Cayce.. who also predicted Jesus would be born in 1998, again as a child. And his second coming would be casual.

Xavier Stewart
Xavier Stewart

False Christs would be people you have to learn about by being told by others. "Hey, have you watched this youtube video, this guy is amazing" and "Hey, come join our commune, our leader is Jesus reborn", "The Pope just called a press conference and is going to introduce someone".
As Jesus himself said it'd be as noticeable as "lighting flashes in the east and is visible even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be."
No-one on earth will miss the second coming.

Jaxon Torres
Jaxon Torres

No-one on earth will miss the second coming.
Indeed.

Noah Russell
Noah Russell

I don’t disagree with anything written. I never said the reincarnation of the Word would be conspicuous, neither am I “teaching” that this will happen. I’m just wondering if there is a reason that it would be formally impossible.

Jackson Reed
Jackson Reed

Jesus is both fully God and fully man. His body is still apart of Him.

Elijah Green
Elijah Green

Where was His body at the moment of His immaculate conception?

Kayden Turner
Kayden Turner

Growing in Mary's womb…where else would it be?

Ryder Lewis
Ryder Lewis

at the moment of conception
Meaning just before it was actually growing. In that moment the Word had no body, not even two cells to rub together. Therefore the argument that “Jesus still has a body” is not always formally true.

Aaron Baker
Aaron Baker

Are you just being stupid on purpose?
Then incarnation happene, and He has a body NOW. On top of that, He already told us in what manner He’d return.

Ryan Hill
Ryan Hill

Did part of your message cutoff? I don’t understand what you are saying. (Also, why so rude?)

Let’s just theorize. Take Jesus coming in the clouds. Is that coming from outer space like the Mormons say? If not, then where exactly is he coming from?

I am proposing an actual answer to this mystery that makes sense and doesn’t disagree with any dogma or doctrine.

Benjamin Fisher
Benjamin Fisher

I want an answer for this mystery
You question is akin to "how many angels can fit on the head of a nail?"
It's a mystery for a reason, bud. If you think too hard about the mysteries you will create problems where there are none. Just have some faith.

Is that coming from outer space like the Mormons say?
listening to Mormons
mfw

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Blake Parker
Blake Parker

Don’t worry, my faith is rock solid. Given that, who doesn’t like solving mysteries?

But I already have my answer, because if my theory were impossible, it would have already been shot down.

Maybe I should become a Mormon and reveal my theory as doctrine. (Just kidding, but I hear those jobs have good benefits)

Jaxon Foster
Jaxon Foster

Because that would require the second coming of the Holy Virgin Mary so that she can give birth to Him again. But you can only give birth to someone once, and Jesus is very much alive, so he doesn't need to be born again.

Cameron Richardson
Cameron Richardson

How can you no understand me?
I'll use grugspeak, maybe that'll help.
Jesus already born
Jesus already have body
Jesus no need new body to come back

Kevin Collins
Kevin Collins

Are you denying that there will be a second coming of the Virgin Mary? The argument is the same.

Did Jesus not “already” have a body When the world was created? We are talking about the incarnation (and “re-incarnation,” though not in any eastern sense) of God.

Kayden Taylor
Kayden Taylor

I'm beginning to think you are unable to understand sequences of events.

Joshua Bailey
Joshua Bailey

Here is my understanding of the timeline: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. THEN the Word became flesh.

Brandon Hill
Brandon Hill

Bingo.
And then what happened at the resurrection?

Ian Lee
Ian Lee

“Spiritual body.” Are you claiming to know what this means?

Juan Taylor
Juan Taylor

By the way, during the period of time before the incarnation circa 0ad, was Jesus bodiless in Heaven in your estimation?

Tyler Diaz
Tyler Diaz

Yes, but it was still a real flesh-and-blood body, as evidenced by the scars He still bears from the crucifixion.The body He was given at the incarnation was glorified, becoming eternal.
In those three days, He descended into the underworld to free those who died in faith of His coming, and to declare His victory over the Angels imprisoned in the Abyss.

Levi Carter
Levi Carter

You quoted but didn’t address

If there is scripture that explicitly says that Jesus still has his wounds in Heaven then I would be proven wrong. Is there a verse?

Camden Baker
Camden Baker

Found it:

And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.
And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly.
And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.
And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.
Doctrine and Covenants 45:48-52

Just kidding.

Chase Mitchell
Chase Mitchell

Did you forget where He appeared to the apostles after the resurrection, still bearing wounds, and then ascends to Heaven?
Arrogant m*rmon prick.

Hunter Barnes
Hunter Barnes

Implying Heaven doesn’t have hospitals capable of fixing scar tissue
Especially scar tissue which is a reminder of painful memories
Please don’t accuse me of Mormonism.

Jaxson Sanders
Jaxson Sanders

Are you denying that there will be a second coming of the Virgin Mary?

I guess I do.
I mean nowhere is it prophesized that she will come again, and I think it's not possible or would be weird for Jesus to have another mother.
Plus Jesus has a body and he is in heaven, so for him to be born again would be unneccessary and needlessly confusing.

Nolan Collins
Nolan Collins

By “second coming of Mary” I mean the presence of Mary in Heaven which will descend into Earth, alongside Jesus and the angels.

Plus Jesus has a body and he is in heaven, so for him to be born would be unneccessary and needlessly confusing.
FTFY. That argument doesn’t make sense. Do people not think that Jesus has a body in Heaven before he incarnated in Bethlehem?

Adrian Lopez
Adrian Lopez

You have issues OP
The Logos didn't have a body until His incarnation
This body was glorified at the resurrection
The Logos still has this body and will come back with this body

Zachary Nelson
Zachary Nelson

Also God doesn't have a body by nature unless you are a Mormon.

Noah Lee
Noah Lee

That’s what I’ve been saying too. It’s surprising how many people on here don’t understand that the idea that the Father and the Son have “real bodies of flesh and bone” is explicitly heretical Mormon doctrine. True bodies in Heaven can perhaps be conceptualized as pure energy. Or something.

But that’s precisely why I’m confused at
The Logos didn't have a body until His incarnation
The Logos still has this body and will come back with this body

Isaac Morgan
Isaac Morgan

The whole point of Him keeping His scars is a declaration of victory. And no, He didn’t have a physical body in Heaven before the incartnation.

Daniel Howard
Daniel Howard

Before the Incarnation Jesus had no body.
At the Incarnation Jesus took upon a body of flesh and bones.
At the Resurrection this body was glorified and became a spiritual body (which does not mean it is not flesh and bones - remember Thomas - but that its mode of being has changed, being entirely in God).
This body, which is made perfect, and which is flesh and bones, is currently sitting at the right hand of the Father. It is because Jesus exalted our humanity to the Father that we too can reach the Father.

Caleb Powell
Caleb Powell

There’s no scripture that proves he keeps his scars. Does the Magisterium teach this? Is it anywhere to be found in sacred tradition or patristics?

Your entire argument rests on
Before the Incarnation Jesus had no body.
but I can prove this to be false, by the simple fact of the Father never incarnating once, yet possessing a spiritual body nonetheless (in Heaven, obviously). Is your theory that the Father was alone in his physicality before the incarnation in Bethlehem, but that he finally gained a physical partner after Jesus was born? If so, it is you who sound Gnostic/Mormon.

It’s worth remembering that the things of Heaven are perfectly eternal and also what I said here There are a number of different metaphors and images that endeavour to capture the inter-trinitarian relationships, not the least of which is Augustine’s De Trinitate and Boethius’ De Trinitate, etc. etc. Right hand of the Father is a scriptural and creedal spatial image for what is by definition beyond time and space, eternal. Andrewes has another touching image, the Holy Spirit as the love-knot of the Father and the Son.

Luke Ross
Luke Ross

Read your Bible.
John 20
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Mason Jones
Mason Jones

Read my posts. Or re-read them.

Eli Lewis
Eli Lewis

No u.
There is nothing in the text whatsoever that suggests that the scars just disappeared.

Jaxson Murphy
Jaxson Murphy

But neither the converse.

Let me ask you a question: Do you think Heaven changes?

Colton Barnes
Colton Barnes

This is not my writing but the writing of my school reverend by the way. A scholar and a gentleman, excellent minister, and last but not least a Harvard divinity alumnus.
Right hand of the Father is a scriptural and creedal spatial image for what is by definition beyond time and space, eternal.
spatial image
for what is beyond space
eternal
It’s important not to take our earthly metaphors too far, or get caught up in them.

Austin Lewis
Austin Lewis

What exactly is it that you have a problem with? We’ll work from there.

Jordan Diaz
Jordan Diaz

I don’t have a problem. I’m postulating that the word could re-incarnate as an event leading up to the second coming, and asking if this theory is in any way heretical.

Henry James
Henry James

The Word

Isaiah Watson
Isaiah Watson

Ah, ok. We’re told the world will be re-made after the second coming; 1000 years after to be precise.

Levi Mitchell
Levi Mitchell

That’s neither here nor there. It seems immaterial to the OP.

Charles Kelly
Charles Kelly

Sorry, just saw the second one.
It would be pointless. God doesn’t do anything that’s pointless. There’s no need for Him to re-incarnate because He’s already incarnated.

David Nelson
David Nelson

There’s no need for Him to re-incarnate because He’s already incarnated.
This is what I take issue with though. To say that the Heavenly Jesus is in any way affected by the incarnation, to me, is blasphemy. It suggests that the Father only gained the presence of His Son 2000 years ago. It makes sense to me that incarnation would always be the primary vehicle to appear physically in the physical realm.

Joshua Martin
Joshua Martin

That’s called Arianism, and it is one of the most ancient heresies.
Christ’s body is still in the fullness of God. His two natures are inseparable; He is both fully man (physical) and fully God.

Asher Martinez
Asher Martinez

Yes, arianism. That’s what I said…blasphemy/heresy.

Julian Miller
Julian Miller

No, I’m telling you that your view is Arianism.

Jeremiah Cook
Jeremiah Cook

The “incarnation” refers to Bethlehem. When our friend said “he already incarnated” it would only make sense for him to be referring to Bethlehem. The Word didn’t “incarnate” in the beginning of creation in Heaven.

Aiden Gray
Aiden Gray

783885
Stop this fan fiction. He already told us how He’s coming back, and you are essentially calling Him a liar.

Mason Thomas
Mason Thomas

There’s no contradiction between a second reincarnation and orthodox prophecies of the second coming. I would never call the Lord a liar.

Leo Walker
Leo Walker

Yes there is.

Ayden Myers
Ayden Myers

Eternity is not affected by temporal events, not even the incarnation. This is just true. Not arianism.

Alexander Williams
Alexander Williams

What is it? I’m open to hearing it.

Kevin Turner
Kevin Turner

John 20:27
Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

Easton Clark
Easton Clark

This argument was already advanced here

Blake Phillips
Blake Phillips

What we don’t understand is why you can’t accept the idea that Christ’s glorified body still bears his wounds.

Jacob Rogers
Jacob Rogers

Not Biblical.

Brandon Ortiz
Brandon Ortiz

It literally is. You’ve had the same passage pointed out to you multiple times. Sage

James Morgan
James Morgan

Obviously his resurrected body had the wounds, but not his body in Heaven before and after the whole Earth thing. Or there is no Biblical reason to conclude that they do — unless you think that Heaven changes as if it existed in the temporal realm, which it doesn’t.

Ethan Adams
Ethan Adams

I’m sorry that you missed the counter-argument.

Owen Williams
Owen Williams

His body in heaven is the same body he had on Earth. He literally ascended from Earth to Heaven in front of the apostles. They SAW it happen.

Henry Taylor
Henry Taylor

His body in heaven is the same body he had on Earth.
Like I said, un-Biblical. The apostles saw Him ascend to Heaven, they didn’t see Him IN Heaven.

But you are ignoring MY argument. Do you not agree that Heaven is beyond space and time? If so, then it is unchanging. So does Christ have the wounds and scars eternally in your view?

Lincoln Jones
Lincoln Jones

Okay, it is not unbiblical at all. He ascended to Heaven, meaning he went there, and is now in heaven. Same glorified body with two inseparable natures.
Heaven obviously does change, because sequences of events happen there. That’s literally what change means. First there was less human spirits there, now there are more. There used to be more angels there, now there are less. Sometimes it’s loud with the heavenly liturgy, sometimes it’s quiet as all fall silent with anticipation when God is about to speak. Heaven will also change when it is made new, a “new heaven and a new earth”. Change in Heaven is completely Biblical. You clearly have never bothered to read it.

Jace Cook
Jace Cook

Ok. In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth (Genesis 1:1). Plural heavens, so there are multiple. Heaven can refer to all of them at once (like Elohim) or a particular subdivision. This may seem pedantic to you, but Matthew 5:18 literally speaks of Heaven passing away. Does that mean Heaven ceases to exist? Of course not. All that’s left will be the highest Heaven, which is where Christ lives.

Much more importantly, change simply does not imply that Heaven is not beyond space and time. The changes you speak of, war in Heaven etc. are changes “in eternity,” or events that happen “infinitely fast” if you will. This is why it’s impossible for Satan to change his mind or repent — the decisions of angels are eternal. If your account of Heaven were true, and it were an evolving dynamical system, then there would be nothing in theory to stop God from changing his mind about things, amending the Bible, letting Satan repent, etc.

In short, you have a low view of eternity, and of the highest Heaven.

Samuel Gonzalez
Samuel Gonzalez

You have a wrong view of everything. The Heaven were both referring to is the highest Heaven, which WILL pass away. And God does change His mind, whcich you would know if you read your Bible. Now go away heretic.

Thomas Gutierrez
Thomas Gutierrez

You should read the Bible. God does not change his mind (Numbers 23:19) because God does not change (Malachi 3:6). It’s you who sound like the heretic to come out and say that God changes — literally defending Mormon doctrine. And if it appears otherwise, it’s only for the benefit of his people Israel, who do not possess God’s eternal perspective, and are being led down the garden path. Don’t be naive. God knows the future and past because he sees everything at once. That’s what eternity is.

Now, please don’t accuse me of being a heretic.

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