Do you think we will see a real revolution in our lifetimes? Maybe it’s just me, but the left seems so dead compared to the right right now and I’m not trying to be defeatist. In the west (America especially) class conciousness is non-existent and people don’t even seem to consider that there are any other options but capitalism. The most I’ve heard is stuff like
What needs to be done to fix this and get things moving again? When thinking about this in connection with stuff like climate change, unopposed American hegemony, nuclear weapons, this quote from the Manifesto came to mind:
Are we going to experience this “common ruin” if we don’t get our shit together? Socialism or barbarism, as it is often said. This wasn’t supposed to be defeatist but it ended that way, not trying to shill, I swear.
Socialism’s Prospects in Our Century
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Tbh… Revolution in capitalist countries that keep the middle class happy and throw some lies to the working class Revolution is pretty much impossible. The USA or Switzerland are good examples for this. I think accelerationism is the only powerful tool to use there. Make their thrones tremble and watch their castles burn in deep economic crisis. Vote for radical anti-worker parties to make workers realize the danger, use the black market to undermine the economy, engage in hacking attacks… basically do all that can harm the economy and make Capitalism collapse faster on its own corruption.
A revolutionary movement in some capacity is unavoidable. The one thing I know is, it will not be led or influenced by those who call themselves "leftists" today. Which is good, because the modern western left is almost entirely trash.
Agree this point. Watching this Trump wave literally feels like Russia 1905. Sadly by that time, we had Lenin's party leadership, and Trosky's insane smart observation of revolutionary dynamics.
Sadly, today's lefties are dumber than incels, I can't imagine anyone of them has the potential to be the leading figurs. We are pretty much doomed.
Is it really a good strategy to make people’s lives worse in order to potentially make them better? I put accelerationism in the same basket as those who completely refuse elections and say wages shouldn’t be increased because it “strengthens capitalism”. It’s insane
Well this thread was swamped by CIA-tier defeatist rhetoricians quickly.
What do you expect? These threads have been made so much over the past 6 months that a lot of people started taking it seriously.
Fuck you OP, for taking this shit here after you were done milking leftypol for defeatism. Fuck you.
Boundless optimism with no conmection to reality is worse than defeatism
You don't have to choose between the two, but I still disagree. If you don't believe your revolution can succeed you won't attempt it. People like OP are generally just looking for an excuse to be pieces of shit who do nothing to further it and want to feel like that's ok because there's no hope anyway.
We already have. The problem is that 90% of this board are Euros who don’t look at the world outside of Europe.
Lol mabey in the 1950’s, but Burger “Middle Class” is only people 50 and older, there dying out.
Isn't it exactly the sort of leftists with a focus on "global geo-politics" who have a hate boner for rojava/PKK?
I don’t think it’s completely hopeless but I don’t think the current state of the Left in the west in particular is that strong right now. I never said there’s “no hope”, nor did I intend to convey that in the OP. Doing nothing, as you would likely agree, is the worst thing we can do
Yeah I think we will see a revolution, I think before at max by 2040
It’s clear that the capitalist mode of production is the source of societies problems, so obviously we are going to have to change how we organise if anything is actually going to change. Not enough time is spent theorising on how we could actually organise without wage labour, private property, a nation state etc
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The hollowest construction is the one that wants to confront this infamous world (whose potential, however, is exceptionally high) of capitalist civilization (and also the majority of the proletarians, who are now being used as a result of major historical mistakes) with the alternative of the “spectre of barbarism”: “Even if there is no revolution that gives birth to a new world and it may be suffocated, is the disintegration crisis of today’s society still occurring, so that we cannot come to socialism, but fall back from civilization into barbarism?” From pure brain caliber this threat does not frighten any bourgeois and does not encourage any proletarian to fight. No society disintegrates because of its internal laws, its internal necessity, if these laws and this necessity do not lead to the uprising of a human mass organized with the weapons in hand – something we know and expect. There is no death without trauma for any “class civilization”, no matter how corrupt and disgusting it may be.
As far as the barbarism is concerned, which is supposed to arise spontaneously after the death of capitalism as a result of its disintegration: If we regard its disappearance as a necessary condition for further development, which then had to lead inevitably through the swamp of the subsequent civilization, then there is nothing so terrible about its characteristics as a human form of coexistence that an unexpected return could frighten us.
you are missinterpreting what people mean by "socialism or barbarism", it's not when capitalism decays and only nothing is left, barbarism is when capitalism has outlived its historical role and is now a fetter on production, and in order to keep value alive it goes nuts, descending into an ever worse totalitarian nightmare
Blah blah blah, what the fuck is this even saying?
If you're referring to the Zig Forums types, sort of. I would say most of them have light to moderate criticisms and are skeptical of Rojava, especially due to the 12 gorillion military bases meme. In reality, the leftists who irrationally hate Rojava are for the most part ignorant of the Kurds and the PKK, and have a purely burgercentric perspective on geopolitics.
Luxemburg has specifically referred to the imperialist wars, especially WWI, as barbarism
Tankie ‘anti-imperialism’ isn’t really based in focusing on geopolitics. I doubt any of them do much thinking about international affairs beyond ‘we must defend ISIS/Assad/His Majesty Kim Jong Un in their struggle against US imperialism.’
The American ‘middle class’ is fictitious, as Luxemburg predicted the reformist efforts have been rolled back and people here are once again rapidly being divided into Proletarians and Bourgeoisie.
this.
The past 10 years since the financial crisis has undone whatever economic gains had been made by American workers since the 1930s. Trade unions are nonexistent for most workers, wages stagnant, basic necessities like housing, medical care, etc all unaffordable.
ICP confirmed for accelerationist-gang
I doubt you do much listening when you see the tank flag.
Understanding geo-politics is useful for understanding how capitalist states interact with one another. However a purely geo-political analysis isn’t useful when dealing with socialist groups.
This tbh
At this point we're already screwed so why bother being accelerationist? You don't need to do anything that the government/industrial complex hasn't already covered. None of us are "free agents" here with any influence in the day-to-day and all these labels are delusional.
i think the real divide is between "just let it happen" accelerationism and "we must stop this tragedy!" reformism.
i agree that in the big picture very little we do will actually affect how the historical process plays out, and at best we will simply exhaust our own individual energy trying to avoid capitalism's self-destruction.
Not likely and if it does happen when we are very old, unless some world-changing crisis breaks out. We are definitely experiencing signs of conciousness of our situation with the current generation of people not fed on cold war propaganda growing up. Even if it gets hampered by cia COINTELPRO people are growing more aware of the atrocity of late stage capitalism. I feel more signs will show the more the boomers and eventually gen x dies out