Afraid to bash some fash? Get over it and mask up

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Sorry, alphabet soup, I'm not going to participate in a tribal war between two bands of asocial assholes. When the time comes to establish reeducation camps, smashies will be placed right next to neo-nazis.

(And yes, masking yourself for anonymity is an important right. So important, in fact, that it shouldn't be wasted on LARPing.)

Don't worry about it, the councils will execute you before you have the opportunity to kill socialists again.

How about you focus on the real enemy instead of your LARP war?


Have fun pretending to be a revolutionary OP, You really toppled the bourgeoisie that may day you threw a rock at a window.

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Attacking nazis is wrong and we should campaign for PSL candidates instead.

No thanks, I think I'll go don my real face educating and organizing people about socialism, that tends to convince people a little more effectively.

t. liberal

Yes because Antifa doesn't do much to stop them even if you claim otherwise. There's no major group that can stop fascism not without fully stopping it by literally shooting it.
Then how come all fascists don't wear masks.
So what's your excuse. You actually work for a boss you hate and suck his cock daily for minimum wage? At that point being a neet is an upgrade, quit, this is no longer about ideology it's about your personal life.

How will I get food and shelter?

Get a job you actually enjoy and isn't absolute cancer.

Shit post for several reasons. Antifa has so far been successful in disrupting fascist rallies, the most recent UTR and it's complete and utter failure should be evidence of this. Doxxing has been a tactic of antifa as well actually, and it's also been effective in causing fascists to lose their jobs among other things. I don't think anyone claimed that their employers won't fire them. It's extremely bad PR for any business.

Explain I ignore anything like that

Why not both?

The only real threat is the economic threat.
Everything else are mere inconveniences.

i agree in smashing fashists but only in self defense. everything else can be done with non violent action

what about class conciousness?

At what point does self-defense and endless tolerance end? Some of this shit needs nipped in the bud before it can be allowed to grow

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to kill a monster you need to be one. Violence changes people. Fascists are human beings too, its just that the events that made them what they are in their life leaded them to a bad ideology, i dont thik they need to be smashed unless they smash first. If we turn violent like they are, i fear we will start to idolize violence (just like they do), and we shall become like them in our interpersonal lives. We must remember what we are fighting against, and be really carefull to dont become the monster.

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It's a shitpost because it's blatantly ignorant.
People like Richard Spencer don't even do rallies anymore because of antifa

make an argument or go back to /b/

Fuck off, hippy

The alt right and neonazis are not the threat here. They're impotent and small. They don't have allies in the government despite pretending to. Politicians are in the tank for huge corporations. They are the real threat. You shouldn't be worried about Alex Jones, but the people who point at Alex Jones as a credible threat (rather than just a boorish asshole entertaining socially retarded boomers) and surreptitiously shutting down the organizing capability of left wingers while pretending that everyone they silence are the equivalent of the alt right.

fuck off, they might not be a threat to some retarded shitposter but right wing terror is definitely rising, abetted by aspects of state and media, just recently those fires in california were probably started by some qanon guy so don't pretend like it's just someone being a dick on twitter or whatever

They're definitely a threat especially to the fags and non-whites who should be taken seriously despite them being losers, because the original fascists were fucking losers everyone laughed at too. In addition antifa is a good tactic to making inroads to certain communities and organizing with them against the megacorps, certainly better than anemic parties. I have no idea why many of you treat this as an either/or situation when you can easily go to a protest one day and organize with other workers the next.

less ad hom and more arguments

Wait, what?

I'm not supporting Jones. I'm saying that the institutions going after him go after us as well. Alt right nutjobs engage in terror, but corporate power engages in terror on a much larger scale because it's systemic. Cops and other state organizations aren't doing what they do because of a right-wing tide, but because that's their function in capitalism. We're entering another period of crisis and as a result all political wings are getting amped up. The idea that fascism is on the rise via some grassroots movement is a smokescreen being propped up by corporate media as a distraction from what institutional powers are doing in anticipation of the coming crash. It's not going to be the alt-right who grabs power when that happens, but the Wall Street and Silicon Valley capitalists via the political machine. It's not even a qualitative change but a mere quantitative one. They've been doing this for decades already. A crisis will just mean they do it faster.

Well then let me clarify that they're not a threat when it comes to authoritarian takeover (which is how much of antifa would describe them). Obviously they can do individual terror, but they lack institutional power to radically alter the system.
That's got nothing to do with why they're not going to be the rise of fascism again. The nazi brand of fascism doesn't appeal to people's interests in the current context. Corporate woke politics do, and encourage people to give more and more power away.
Where did I do that? Antifa is supposed to fight the rise of fascism. I'm saying the current target is wrong, not that protesting is bad.

idk what your point is really, that we shouldn't do anything about fascist terror because capitalism still exists?

These Qanon boomers are out of control

I'm saying the alt right are not the most important target, that the corporations controlling media are a bigger threat regarding antifa's concern, i.e. the rise of fascism.

What do you think the KKK costumes were for? Only larping?

yeah i think the actual fascists are a bigger immediate threat than a media just looking for easy clicks

Why not both? The bourgeoisie in control of the media have an agenda beyond just “clicks”

Dude is cartoonishly imperialist but he got disowned by everyone back in 2016, that's like saying having a Jake Paul video taken down is the same as having his channel taken down. Not much of a difference.
The UTR thing I frankly stopped caring about, I'm fairly sure once Trumps presidency ends everyone will go back to just going on with their lives having accomplished nothing in the past decade. Antifa has done nothing beyond minor damages.

Fucking LARPers

i'm talking about militant direct action here, not just being critical of an institution

Fighting fascists in streets isn't going to do shit if the capitalist system that generates them is still in tact. Gilles Dauvé makes a point that fascism is most effectively stopped when action is taken against the entire capitalist system as a whole, not through myopic antifa-style demonstrations. That might be a tough pill for some LARPers to swallow though.


Richard Spencer is a pretty obvious fascist m8, not sure how that can be disputed. I can spoon feed you examples all day of alt-right fags and facist rallies getting shutdown and doxxed but why would I? You don't care enough to be anything but ignorant about the topic, yet still feel the need to voice your opinion on it as if it's at all relelvant. I personally don't even care much about antifa. I'm not against them, and I can appreciate the good they can sometimes do, but it's not like I'm active with them or anything. It's just obnoxious watching you spout brainlet opinions time and time again on here. Apply yourself.

If we're being honest, if any group is able to do an authoritarian takeover it's going to be them or those with similar views but less cringy. They've been infiltrating law enforcement for years and a lot of them join the military specifically to learn how to conduct warfare. Not being afraid of a well armed and relatively well funded network of reactionaries who want to kill us is foolish, and we should absolutely be doing what we can to attack the early stages of their movement.
And we should be concerned with individual terror, because it affects the lives of workers. They may not currently control the government, but they can harass and attack individuals and they will be the ones attacking strikers or our protests and oprganizations. As they already have in the case of the anarchist bookfair in Houston.
The nazi brand of fascism absolutely appeals to some people's beliefs and will take hold as appeasement once climate change and war makes refugee crisis significantly worse and the deindustrialization leaves more unemployed and blaming muh immigrants or muh offshoring. We need to treat it as serious as we do corporate woke politics, which are already despised and mocked by the left, as both pose an immediate and future threat to us.
And you are wrong, both the fringe reactionary groups and corporations are the correct target. The issue is that the left is able to easily confront the former through antifa while confronting the latter would require a degree of organization and power a hypothetical united left (dsa to anarchists) couldn't muster. So the left uses wht tools it has available while trying to grow and organize to be able to strike and damage corporations. If anything antifa endears us to minority and lgbt communities as the ones willing to stand up to those calling for their deaths while liberals screech about civility and as such is useful for growing our organizations. It's certainly better than the ranting about throwing liberals into camps, as the tankie earlier said.

stop making this into some abstract nonsense, confronting fascists has clearly worked if you look at cable st, wwii or even the poor showing at this years unite the right

it's idealism like this that saw the rise of the nazis, fascism is a threat right here right now, capitalism isn't going anywhere soon

even a few dozen assholes can do plenty of damage, but you'd be deluding yourself if you thought they or their sympathisers are just a few dozen

why the fuck should i care about alex jones getting kicked off websites for breaking their rules, it's not like it's setting a legal precedent and frankly it's one of the few times those companies do anything right

I don't even really disagree with this, m8. I'm being a bit hyperbolic I admit, but I think the problem here is letting the conflict between the media and the alt-right distract us from the fact that both are against us, and the media is much stronger than the alt-right. I think it's important to fight neo nazis, but they're not going to be the new fascists since they're at odds with much more powerful groups who can't afford to alienate the very large minority groups that the alt-right alienate by definition. That's what I'm trying to get across and doing poorly.

I was referring to the UTR that just happened and using that situation as a synecdoche for the larger situation. It's not many of these people who are willing to actually do something, and they are dwarfed by the active left and libs who oppose them, regardless of what scale you're looking at.
I already said Alex Jones is a distraction. His banning is PR meant to characterize the silencing of political speech, and you fell for it. They have been and will continue to do this with lower-profile left wingers.
You're pulling out this liberal talking point? Institutions silencing dissent is bad no matter who's doing it. The private/public distinction is an illusion.
Do you clap when a cop arrests a criminal?

still enough, given that these people are often in positions of power

pr for who, jones?

my point is about who's getting banned

not literally but if it's like a rapist or whatever then yeah, i don't see why it's some huge travesty that they get hauled off to prison

And I think you are mistaken here, the new fascism will inherit the racial and nationalistic characteristics and corporations will back them instead of us in a battle after the collapse of capitalism. I don't think anyone here opposes action against corporations, but my issue is that the left couldn't pull off any worthwhile action against them and needs to organize and grow first. My problem with the "leftist anti-antifa" is the sentiments in this crimethinc piece that such action removes most of the proletariat because it fails to relate to their struggles in favor of some broad axiom that doesn't mean shit to the prole trying to survive. I would go as far to say that such praxis and attitudes hamper the ability to challenge the capitalist system(or corporations) by limiting those involved to a few already convinced by socialism and versed in leftist lexicon. To that end I say we do antifa and community self-defense, we do the anarchist medical clinics in Greece or Pothole fixers, we bring back the Black Panther's tactics of going to the people to help them with their issues, ad from this we grow the movement that will allow us to strike at corporations and eventually capitalism itself.

Really? Is that why the Spanish, with an Antifa that was MUCH more heavily armed and organized than what you see today were still unable to stem the rise of fascism in their own country? I shill this a lot, but you should read it:

Combating fascism is not anywhere near as straightforward as you make it out to be. The rise of fascism during WW2 had much more to do with the failure of the left to overcome capitalism than it did with people not throwing enough support behind Antifa. The moment you frame things as "everyone vs. the fascists", you've already lost. People won't support any movement with any kind of enthusiasm that promises nothing more than the same old shitty status quo. That's why revolutions are such powerful things; people fight with incredible passion when they see that the possibility of a better future is within their grasp, and it's that same revolutionary fervor that's most effective at fighting fascism.
It's not idealism to point out how the material conditions of capitalism give rise to fascism. Stop using words you clearly don't understand.
Then neither is fascism. If you can't accept that then you truly don't understand the history of the ideology as well as you think you do.

That's because the second republic didn't have much legitimacy to begin with, seeing as it had only existed for 5 years. Defensive popular front tactics only work when you have something real to defend.

That's essentially my point though, people aren't going to fight very hard for a system they don't any any real faith in. And I think it pretty much goes without saying that when things have devolved to the point where you're regularly engaged in skirmishes with fascists, then whatever liberal government there is has already lost most of its legitimacy.

Wow-fucking-wee, people like you are going to be first against the wall under any imaginable revolution.

I would go quite a bit further. The real problem isn't just ignoring capitalism to autistically screech about fashies (that are completely infiltrated with LEOs/informants, and spend more actual effort scamming losers to pay for apolitical petty criminal activity), it's ACTIVELY COLLABORATING with capitalism to create and protect greater censorship, greater police powers, greater autonomy for corporations, smear non-PC leftists as Nazis, and even directly abet MIC-friendly tensions as in the case of shit like Russiagate.

If antifa and related groups were just a dumb street clown LARP, I wouldn't mind, but they are literally the leftist wing of capital.

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This we have to learn from our guys in Spain

The real left is already censored. Quite heavily in fact. I see no problem with making sure that fashies don't get any coverage either. Also I'm pretty sure that artist is a red liberal now.

That's absolute bullshit, and you know it. Free expression exists as a right today, both through the legal code and embedded in cultural morays, in ways that didn't for centuries. We and our ancestors fought and died for what that, and if that went away it would again make it infinitely harder for us to get anything done. And that doesn't even take into account other moronity the "left" is pushing, like mass surveillance or degradation of due process.

Your idiotic nonsense is a level of disingenuousness on par with "homeless and poor exist in the 1st-world, therefore it's exactly the same as the 3rd-world". Fuck you.

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the biggest problem in spain was that the only country that significantly supported the republicans was the soviet union, and the rest is history

the portrayal of fascism as the logical conclusion of capitalism reflects the hopes of midcentury communists far more so than it does reality, which is that fascism is a regression towards a more feudal superstructure while keeping a capitalist base, one that is naturally unsustainable

that an ideology such as fascism can be fought in the same way as a material reality like capitalism is a position that reeks of idealism

And I'm sure Robespierre could have avoided a beheading if Goku had appeared and Spirit Bombed the reactionaries but the more pertinent question to ask how to avoid things degenerating to the point where you need your entire continent to bail you out of a fascist uprising. A fairly disorganized proletariat was able to effectively keep fascism at bay the year before Franco came into power. The fact that the more heavily armed and organized institutions that came later couldn't even manage that speaks volumes to their efficacy.

This quote sums it up best:

I guess it's just sheer coincidence that nearly every fascist uprising has also coincided with increases in strikes and worker uprisings brought about by the inability of the liberal governments to deal with the contradictions of their capitalist systems. I also have no fucking idea what you mean by "feudal superstructure". And capitalism is unsustainable regardless of what superstructure you have.

The two things are inextricably linked, you cannot neatly separate an ideology from the material conditions that surround it. Fascism does not spring forth from the ether.

grow up

read marx

it won power in countries where capitalism, especially superstructure, was relatively new and weak compared to the residual feudalism

fascism might be tolerated initially, but it's unreliable, nationalistic, based in a reaction by military and industrial elites to globalisation, which is the real conclusion of capitalist logic

Yeah they're so worried about Cletus trying to live his life just holding some backwards views yet they're on twitter, with a confirmed account no less, NOT bashing those heads in with a bag of locks or whatever.

What real revolutionaries you kids got there. Nothing like being on a watchlist AND not accomplishing anything.

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Kim Kelly is a piece of shit who D&C'd the metal scene. fuck her. and her favorite bands atm suck shit.

You must be fresh out of reddit if this kind of shit honestly surprises you on a imageboard.
I'm not aware of any writings by Marx that describe fascism as having a feudal superstructure. If you don't want to argue the point yourself, then don't bring it up.
I'm not really buying this argument considering Russia was the most backwards country with regards to feudalist growing pains and they (depending on who you ask) were the first ones to try and overcome capitalism. Not to mention that the United States has had fascist elements despite having not been a feudal society for the majority of its history.
What does any of this have to do with the part of my post that you quoted? I'm well aware that Fascist governments quickly fall apart.

almost like he died before fascism was a thing

state capitalism is just a fancy term for feudalism

the united states had chattel slavery until the 1860s, then feudal sharecropping after that until the mid 20th century and now the prison industrial complex

and they do so because they try and fail to control capitalism

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Yes pointing out that fascism will take hold, and already has as can be seen by Golden Dawn, by blaming immigrants or offshoring instead of capitalism for problems is an executable offense and instead we should become nationalist socdems. Do the board a favor and kys.

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I see nothing wrong with this besides the socdem part.


Imagine my shock.

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Whenever something contradicts the leftists worldview, like immigrants not being the perfect victims but instead perpetrators, the resulting cognitive dissonance is quelled by framing any mention of this as "blaming".

We /esoteric/ now?

No one said immigrants were perfect, it's just not them paying you pennies of the dollar or making sure you can't afford the rent. It's porky doing that, and you faggots who think banning or restricting immigration is going to do anything to stop that are deluded.

If we just do away with all the porkies, then the world will work as it is supposed to do according my ideology and all the immigrant troubles will be gone and everyone lived happily ever after.

Kinda disgusting really, to prefer the unwashed hordes that are invading europe over your local shopkeepers and entrepreneurs.

Does anyone have that human vs orc png?

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I doubt Antifa will ever grow in to your pic related.
They have the attitude but not the numbers.

The LoTr one? The whole thing originally started on /tv/ ironically before Zig Forums was dumb enough to pick it up.


Also, >silent acceptance of gaps in logic, everyone's mind are controlled by capitalist ideology except mine

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You Zig Forumstards can't do anything right can you?

It's give or take.

This is Zig Forums not Zig Forums.
We dont demand handouts and then moan when what we are given isnt exactly perfect.

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I could play devil's advocate and use a rationalist defense and say since they are invisible to the human eye its okay to shoot in their direction because they don't exist to the senses. unless you smell them, but I've smoked for so long that its a moot point.

hi falseflag

Tolkien thought your waifu was an idiot.



Socialism isn't "oligarchic", it implies the common ownership of the MOP. Read a book.

Amermutt soldiers are the closest thing to orcs in today's world.

Why back anybody when you can produce your own propaganda? If they're going to side with someone it's the libs who are already sliding into war hawk and cold war paranoia territory.
Bigger and better organized would help but I don't see why Nothing Can Be Done(TM).
>My problem with the "leftist anti-antifa" is the sentiments in this crimethinc piece that such action removes most of the proletariat because it fails to relate to their struggles in favor of some broad axiom that doesn't mean shit to the prole trying to survive.
Going after nazis is also boring since nazis are huge cowards who only go after minorities. Yes, defending those people endears us to them, but it's also a case of not involving most of the proletariat. Not that that's the purpose of antifa in the first place any way… But my point is that the target I'm suggesting (huge media corporations surveiling, censoring, and propagandizing for capital) are a much more direct threat of fascism and affect many more people.
How? It's possible to do direct action while also organizing with workers. You made this point here

Isn't this entrapment?

Yeah Tolkien fought in WW1 so he hated Germans.
But im not German.

Because backing an emergent militant reaction is easier than building a rainbow capitalist militant movement from the ground up and it won't divide the anti-communist forces into disparate camps.
It's not that nothing can be done, it's that we need to build our forces to be able to do something. Gathering some people to protest nazis is one thing, but waving signs in front of Facebook's offices isn't going to do anything to hurt Facebook. What can is if many workers go on strike or take other direct action, but at the moment we can't pull off either with our current numbers.
Yes, but not an immediate threat and not one that can be properly addressed with our current tools. If we had the numbers to strike that would be one thing, but the recent Amazon strike barely made a dent in Bezos' pocket. We need a big strike that actually has teeth, not antbites they can safely ignore.
Most reading groups and parties preach to the already converted while failing to connect to the issues faced by the workers. Reading groups aren't bad on their own, but if that's all you do all you will get is a stagnant group of socialists endlessly relitigating ancient conflicts. Such organizations need to be in concert with activities such as those of the Black Panthers or Antifa to be effective at education.
And to go after the big targets we need more people, so we appeal to smaller groups of people to build the movement. I'm not saying we should just ignore corporations or the state and only attack nazis or do soup kitchens, I'm saying that to attack the big enemies we start smaller to build our movement up to be able to attack them in a way that matters.

Just because somebody is wielding them, doesn't mean protecting yourself against the sticks you're being clubbed with is bad praxis, for you, nor for the trees they were made from.
What you said is a bit like if, in the 1800s, someone exactly like you had made a flippant "Slavery and colonialism, pfft!" dismissal toward the grievances of early leftists.

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Jesus christ.

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Importing immigrants is not like slavery or colonialism, the immigrants exist because of instability of our economic system while slavery and colonialism was the economic system. Anti-immigrantion is reformism at best and courting reactionaries at worst.

Immigration fills a role identical to slavery, and offshoring that of colonialism, especially given essentially all liberal apologia for both is directly recycled from advocates of slavery and colonialism.

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Read Lenin.

all dem images on the booru hidden by assravaged twatter tanks from trannypol

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No they don't, immigrant workers and offshoring function as wage labor while slaves and the colonized were significantly different from proletarians and peasants. Opposition to such is at best combatting a symptom of wage labor that leaves exploitation in tact for the proletariat, a reformist tactic that has already failed in the form of socdems. Rather than waste time on electoralism and reform we should be working with the world-wide proletariat to have a global movement capable of combatting capitalism and removing the conditions that force immigrants to flee their homes or see corporations invading to build factories.

Their function was to depress pay, supplement overpriced or disobedient paid labor, suppress political dissent, and dilute rule of law via crown companies.

Socdem didn't fail, but instead had a hole punched in it by neoliberalism. Following the success of the 1960s New Left's cultural efforts, a failure to pivot from cultural back to economic issues produced a momentum gap from the Old Left, leaving unattended economic issues vulnerable to attack by emerging neolib ideologues. Now that populism is slowly shifting organized leftism's concern from the ghosts of long-concluded cultural struggles back to the economy, we are set to get back on the rails to wind down what remains of capitalism.

Yeah that was kind of my point.
You are a turbo brainlet if you think any flavor of capitalism is the same as feudalism.
None of those things you mentioned are feudalism. Even sharecropping which shares some similarities isn't completely identical. Feudalism is not "when you're forced to work for someone else".
There's no such thing as trying and succeeding at controlling capitalism, it's unstable regardless of who's in the driver's seat.

brb have to go pay my landlord the rent and when he dies I'll have to pay his worthless cunt children too, then gonna talk to my neighbor, who operates a legal pyramid scheme not dissimilar from the class structure of the non-feudal socioeconomic system in which I live. I sure hope those warriors who can afford and are allowed to own better weapons and armor than I am, who work for the government or private entities don't try to manufacture any incidents with me like they did at the bar that one birthday a few years ago!

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Feudalism is not when you pay rent to a landlord
Neither are Ponzi schemes
And neither is the existence of class of people better armed than the general populace. This also ignores the unique role police serve in protecting private property.
You can find similarities between any group of societies, that doesn't mean you can equate one economic model with another. Gee whiz, Rome had markets just like we do today, I guess that makes ancient Rome capitalist! Oh wait, no, it doesn't, because that's not what defines capitalism.