Name one (1) thing worse than ultra dogmatic Marxist-Leninists. I’m waiting
Name one (1) thing worse than ultra dogmatic Marxist-Leninists. I’m waiting
I can't, even serial child molesters have done less damage to the left, and therefore the future of humanity, than them.
Wouldn't the revisionist ML's be worse to most anarchists/leftcoms/trots around here? Most twitter and Zig Forums tankies it more into that camp than the kind of people you're describing here. At least you'd agree with the anti revisionists on some things, like China and Cuba/DRPK not being socialist.
Obviously some things do need to be labeled as “revionist”, such as when things such as class struggle and revolution are completely repudiated or other types of bullshit is used to distort scientific socialism. The worst type of people, in my opinion, at least are the dogmatists who treat people like Marx, Engels and Lenin as irreproachable gods.
I think investigating the conditions of one’s country or refion first and deciding what action to take from there would be better than studying theory constantly from one’s armchair. Theory isn’t a religious text with all the answers. To me it’s a guidebook – a good guidebook, but just a guide
Most twitter and Zig Forums tankies would fit more into*
Reactionaries. Truth is as bad as some of those are, between the Dengists and bunkerfags and so on they're largely confined to the internet or irrelevant parties and at most can give us headaches when we end up in conversation with them. On the other hand reactionaries can and will show up to attack us and have significantly more ability to back up their threats than some tranny wanting to throw us into a gulag because we dfon't support xir's favorite liberal or reactionary state. So in this case I'm going to say the fags that will actually pump some lead into us are worse.
Pineapples on pizza
Far worse than MLs for sure.
Pineapple on pizza is good though
I wasn't commenting on whether I thought the DPRK was socialist or not, I was just saying some anti revisionist ML/MLM's don't think it is
M-L's are as revisionist as it gets.
Clearly it isn't because there aren't enough Lenin pictures.
they're the equivalent of the Zig Forumstard but of the "left". Not our left tho so who cares just treat them like Zig Forumstards… like absolutely bonkers authoritarian manchildren.
btw never adopt any form of support to authoritarianism unless you want the growing support of the modern left to crumble (again).
This era is where the red scare gets washed away. Were socialism becomes the partner of the word democracy, direct democracy if possible, one can't be exist without the other. Never, never endorse a dictator, not even memeing. Period.
you want the woke proletarian then appeal more to "normie" working class. authoritarianism has no way in hell of becoming a popular idea ever again post WW2 for obvious reasons.
"They demand that the first act of the social revolution shall be the abolition of authority. Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?
Therefore, either one of two things: either the anti-authoritarians don't know what they're talking about, in which case they are creating nothing but confusion; or they do know, and in that case they are betraying the movement of the proletariat. In either case they serve the reaction."
Friedrich Engels, On Authority 1872
you confuse authority i.e being a master just like porky politicans with beating your bully who started subjugating you first the fuck up so he can't subjugate you so you permanently draw the line that you're perfectly autonomous to decide what to do for yourself & that no subjugation upon you is further allowed.
A dictator on the other hand will just become your new porky since you gave him a free pass to subjugate you & remove your democracy.
The main problem with "ultra dogmatic" ML's is that they're not actually interested in politics, they're interested in LARPing. It's 100% about them and their feels, it's not actually about communism or whatever. Being an ML is an identity to them. They like the aesthetics of it, they like declaring their support for this or that country/dictator on twitter. They like making edgy jokes about sending various people to a gulag, etc.
What they're not interested in is identifying a set of political goals (that follow from some basic values, principles, philosophy, worldview or whatever) and working out a political strategy for achieving those goals. Their opposition to reformism, for example, might seem like it's about political strategy but it's not. Literally the only reasons these people are against reformism is that (1) that's what it says in their holy texts from 100+ years ago, and more importantly (2) denouncing reformists is a vital part of the radical, revolutionary aesthetic/identity. That's it. Has nothing to do with a careful consideration of how to achieve their political goals, based on an actual analysis of the current situation. I'm not personally taking a stance for or against reformism here btw
Many anarchists are exactly the same way except they have chosen a different radical identity, btw.
I am God?
nah god implies being a dogmatic ruler. you're better than any god, you're you.
I am new to this "being better than any god" thing, so could you help me out? How do I eat a good lunch autonomously?
I agree 100%. These kind of socially retarded people are the ones who make memes of "liberals get the bullet too". Which make us, the rest of the left de-associate with them. We're better like this, without MLs rolling with us.
Authoritarians don't get along with Socialists. It's like oil & war.
inb4… no I'm not implying American liberals are leftists but most of them aren't exactly the problem they're proletarian too. Only the richest ones who think their wealthy position is a fair one & wasn't built on the exploitation of several minimum wage workers.
lol it was supposed to be water but the auto corrector does funny things. it also makes sense this way tho.
the "boomer" meme that the try hards push and end up making us all look like idiots
It's not specific to ML's. The problem is people who think they're into politics when in reality they're only interested in identity masturbation. This is a common problem in the entire far left. Anarchists and tankies are both guilty of it, and many left-wing socdems are too.
read a book
It just goes on and on and on
How about ultra dogmatic natSOCCs?
Having mind stuck in such mindset, I don't know, I'd rather hit the bong with dogmatic Marxist-Leninist.
You have right for your bad taste in pizza but I'm just telling you might as well be my enemy.
Just don't eat pineapple pizza and you are good to go.
Revolutionary terror isn't incompatible with democracy.
While this is partly true, the problem is that the "stances" of Leninist vanguard parties are often only made to signal to other communists, not to the whole working class. It's in 2018 and we literally have parties split over the issue whether or not the Sino-Albanian split was justified. It's this whole communist tradition that started with Trotsky getting icepicked of personalizing political lines. I mean, name one Nazi party that split because of the Night of the Long Knives (the event where Strasser and Röhm were killed).
Good post, I completely agree even though I would consider myself an ML to some degree
I agree. Don't see how that necessarily contradicts what I wrote though?
I consider myself an ML "to some degree" too. But I think it's important to be honest about how shit the ML sphere is online and IRL (in the west at least). Just like the far left is shit general.
I do admire the new social democratic movement in the US (DSA, Justice Dems, Bernie, Ocasio, etc.) quite a bit, despite not fully agreeing with them ideologically nor strategically, because at least they've got concrete goals (universal healthcare, free higher education, higher min. wage, ending the wars, getting money out of politics, etc.) and a clear political strategy for how to achieve that (hostile takeover of the democratic party, gather grassroots support by pledging to not take corporate pac money, campaign on populist left policies that appeal to people's material interests). That's something the far left (marxists and anarchists) doesn't have right now. At the moment, the far left (everything to the left of social democracy) is still more of a subculture than a political movement.
I have a few issues with the social democrats (mostly some things they’ve said and positions) in the US and wish they understood class struggle a bit better and were more formly anti-capitalism but they’re definitely better than anything else in this country as of right now. I’m definitely not going to throw a fit if they’re not marching through the streets with hammers and sickles. That will never happen
DSA isn't really strictly socdem tbh, more of a left unity org with socdem leadership.
You can call yourself a Marxist without adopting a super specific political line.
I think there are some Marxist parties that do good work but I don't agree with them on everything. A lot of Trot parties are like this. The Trots are some of the most active in publishing Marxist works and trying to bring new people into the Marxist movement. I probably wouldn't agree with them on specific parts of Marxist theory but when they told Hugo Chavez that his revolution would fail if it went halfway… they were right.
The only Marxists I feel the need to reject are the ones who engage in full "opportunism" and encourage people to waste their time. Example: the CPUSA has (for decades?) told people to vote for Democrats. They act like this makes some kind of huge difference for working people even though the Democrats have pursued the same overall economic policy as Republicans. Imagine being a Communist and telling people, "We need to defeat the reactionaries…by electing Hillary Clinton!" I mean, jesus christ, the chairman of their National Committee has stated that the Democratic Party is a vehicle "that can be utilized by the labor movement." Instead, it's the CPUSA that becomes the vehicle utilized by capital.
Most workers recognize opportunism when they see it, too. There was a great moment when Bernie Sanders was telling his supporters how they needed to defeat Trump (yay!) …by electing Clinton (boo!). The crowd turned against him in a matter of seconds because everyone knew that Clinton and the establishment Democrats would never do anything for working people.
I put the pineapple on the pizza because I take satisfaction in it, not because of any spooky rights. Jalapenos are also good.
Tbf, it's a problem with most people who have political opinions outside of the status quo. It's a lot harder to practice a political ideology that's not currently in practice.