People should actually look up COINTELPRO and what the FBI’s actual motivations and strategies are. They aren’t Satan trying to tempt you into revisionism. They don’t really give a shit about what we believe. They’re goals are to sow chaos in our movements and possibly give us a bad public image and get us to do things that justify legal actions against us.
That considered, Zig Forums‘s BO and the whole Marcyite movement they’re a part of stands really badly of COINTELPRO. Just as that board begins to gain a semblance of popularity, the BO suddenly has a massive change of heart, splits the community in two and actively encourages an environment of not just anti-imperialism, but one where any and all enemies of the American state are treated as our most beloved comrades.
Marcyism in general is a ploy to get us to do this, to get us to act as though we’re supporters, agents and agitators of foreign enemies of the state so that we can be arrested, broken up and shut down under the Espionage Act. They’ve already done this to freeze the bank account of Pravda Media and effectively get them shut down.
And, yes, the FBI DID do this sort of thing back in the 60s, from making a Maoist wrecker tendency in the Ad Hoc Committee for a Marxist-Leninist Party to encouraging the creation of the Weathermen. In fact, almost everything the FBI did was around extremist groups, I don’t know where this meme that they’re behind milquetoast succdems came from.
*their But I agree. I see unpopular shit unrelated to the MoP being shilled a lot around here.
When I brought this up, mostly just saying that Marcyite shit stunk of COINTELPRO, I got a permanent ban out of nowhere from the lefty BO. Not only that, he fucking deleted every single one of my posts on the board, including unrelated shit like an argument I was having with some neolib.
That was a big red flag to me more than anything.
It’s because the FBI actually did support more moderate or libertarian strains of socialism. In fact they supported literally anything they thought might weaken the Soviet Union. It’s important to remember that while America’s position in the Cold War was opposed to all forms of socialism, their number one concern was the USSR, it’s allies, allied parties, and any force that would be likely to serve as their allies or proxies. Defeating the Soviet Union took precedence over fighting communism in general, and so the US would support any group that worked to undermine the Soviet State, or at least had the potential to do so. At the same time however, they supported more radical tendencies domestically because they gave the pretext for crackdowns on communists, and also served to frighten the population away from the left in general, especially those tendencies that rejected the USSR and may have appealed to western workers. In other words the US made opportunistic use of both tankies as well as anti-tankie leftists to further their ends depending on the time and place. Decrying a single tendency as COINTELPRO or more COINTELPRO than any other is not only ahistorical, it displays a failure to appreciate the true insidious character and destructive power over subversion, infiltration, honeypots, agent provocateurs, and false flags.
He does that all the time. It happened to me yesterday because I said that I didn’t think all the gas attacks in Syria were faked.
Do you have evidence of this? What socdems did the FBI support?
Yeah, but usually just the four week ban shit. Not a permaban with all your posts deleted.
since leftypol does jackshit about actual irl organizing, this is unlikely. I bet the actual FBI report on Zig Forums is "a bunch of retarded children, will have no bearing on any future communist movements." It is far more likely that the gov't is more busy on pol since they pin threads encourging terrorism. also terrorism is fucking gay, and non-constructive
Zig Forums is a forum of discussion, not an org.
BO here, I have had no contact with FBI or any other intelligence agents in my life (other than the ones who anonymously shilled Rojava on Zig Forums for a year) and have no affiliation to them. I dislike Marcyism as it is Trotskyism and the Marcyite parties are a mess.
Also you are pretty stupid if you think that they'll need to cast you as a foreign agent to arrest/censor you, as it is already illegal to be a communist in the USA: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954 Not that you are a communist of course.
there are no permabans on 8ch, they are removed after a few months.
That law is not enforced at all. Not to say they wouldn’t use it if there was a communist resurgance here
"[The police] deliberately allowed the study circle sufficient time to develop its work so that they might, obtain a palpable corpus delicti, and they always permitted several of the persons known to them to remain at liberty “for breeding” (which, as far as I know, is the technical term used both by our people and by the gendarmes)." marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/iv.htm The full chapter is worth repeated reading. It's a police tactic to let communists and other revolutionaries organize unhindered and give them a false sense of security. That law certainly will be enforced in the future.
The law is problematic because it runs contrary to the first amendment. IIRC, it’s only been used all of one time. Far more lefties have been arrested under the Espionage Act.
I have actually met a FBI agent and OP is right. You are probably a useful idiot to them.
Probably, so stop going to Zig Forums and don't be a marcyite, be a MLM if you insist on being a Leninist in 2018.
Prove it. The marcyite conception of imperialism had been adopted by the relevant burger ML parties and the management of the board you claim to own, you may dislike it but it's what you are.
The law, as all other tools of the state, only exists to protect the interests of the ruling class and will be bent or broken if it comes into conflict with their interests. >I bet the actual FBI report on Zig Forums is "a bunch of retarded children, will have no bearing on any future communist movements."
If you’re legitimately BO, why the fuck are you pushing Marcyite politics if you don’t agree with them? Why is it necessary to actively suck off Assad or whoever else if you don’t believe in the Global Class War theory as your conceptualization of anti-imperialism?
It’s actually even more suspect that you want people to actively praise non-communist enemies of the American state if you have no actual ideological reason to do so. Are you just an edgy contrarian wrecker acting the useful idiot or are you legit just working with the FBI.
That’s extra retarded. MLM basically refers to American Gonzaloists who think the fucking Shining Path are the most advanced form of Marxist science.
What the fuck is “Marcyism”? Is it there autistic conception of anti-imperialism and how every American needs to die?
Refers to Sam Marcy, the founder of WWP and his “Global Class War” theory.
Essentially, the world is breaking up into two great camps, the empire lead by the United States and proletarian revolutionaries. Therefore, anyone in conflict with the US are effectively communists.
And what, the Espionage Act arrests didn't run contrary to the flimsy paper of the 1st Amendment? And the Patriot Act? Leftists are already being blacklisted on social media and search engines in a joint effort between internet companies and the intel community, where's the 1st Amendment now? And so on. But it's true, they don't need any unusual laws to fuck us up at all. They can just plant drugs, make you "commit suicide," or any number of other things.
There are no relevant burger ML parties. There are a couple Marcyite parties that are disintegrating due to their awful NGO-affiliated, spooky leadership.
I haven't even read any Marcy, my view on things is just from reading Marx, Lenin, Stalin and some other authors, in combination with news, essay, Zig Forums, and Twitter reading. Given that Marcy was trying to find a way to make Trotskyism more palatable (by making it resemble actual Marxism Leninism) it's no surprise to me if there are any superficial semblances. I've seen some stupid excerpts from Marcy, as far as I can tell it is just a sophisticated form of "critical support" that wants to have a cake and eat it.
The state still needs to justify its actions to its populace. This is why fascist state structure and radical nationalism go hand-in-hand. It’s easier for the state to justify “you’re under arrest for being a foreign agent and a traitor” than “you’re under arrest for being a communist” (and, what’s more, many lefty organizations don’t openly self-identify as communist) which is why historically the state has wielded the Espionage Act like a hammer while the Communist Control Act has hardly seen any use.
Yes, it’s obvious that the state isn’t actually bound all that tightly if at all by its laws, but it’s equally obvious that the state desires legitimacy which requires justification for its actions.
I'm shocked. Wrong, Marcy split with Trotskyism for attempting to be too palatable for normies and not revolutionary. His theory of "global class war" is exactly what passes for anti-imperialism among your board and similar places, you are all marcyites.
Radio Free Europe (CIA proxy) endorsed the Hungarian uprising which had a socdem presence, although it also had a strong libcom/leftcom tendency.
You need to work on your comprehension, user. Let me ask you: have you done your reading? Or have you struck upon what you think is a golden argument against basic Marxism-Leninism– it's all just Marcyism!
I don't know what you're trying to achieve. Actual communists will never get a break from the US government. They might as well be honest that they support other countries in their struggle against US imperialism and hope for the defeat of the US. And meanwhile they should be acting like professionals to avoid arrest and infiltration.
Seeing as you admit that you haven't read Marcy and were under the impression he didn't split with Trotskyism, this is quite rich. I've read Marcy and read the opinions of esteemed anti-imperialists that now populate Zig Forums, they're virtually identical strategies and reasoning. If I wanted to argue against "basic Marxism-Leninism" I would seek out some Hoxhaist, I'm arguing that you have adopted the "global class war" of Marcy and such is support of the left wing of capital at best and revisionist to the ideology you claim to hold. Anemic protests or spamming memes aren't supporting countries against US imperialism, it's impotent cheerleading from hobbyists who care more about larping as a geopoitcal player than organizing with fellow workers where they actually live. If you want to support other countries in such struggles either go there and fight or get in a position to damage the economic interests to force the US to pull out of imperialistic military adventures.
Hoxhaists are extremely autistic and attempt to shove a square peg into a round hole, MLMs are fags but they at least try to keep politics relevant for our current conditions instead of larp like it's the 50's.
You actually banned someone for adhering to Lenin’s theory of imperialism.
Also, our support means absolutely nothing. We can be opposed to imperialism, but we’re powerless to stop it. There’s no point in actively supporting people who aren’t even fucking communist when 1) it makes you look like a loon to the average prole, 2) those regimes aren’t doing shit for you and 3) it makes you a target of the Espionage Act. There’s only negatives and no positives.
Why would I waste time with that when there's more important things to read?
He didn't, he was a Trot to the day he died.
It's Marxism-Leninism, not Marxism-Leninism-Hoxhaism, it's clear you are meme-poisoned.
Odd how you deflected. Try reading Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao for a change.
Did I say anything about tactics (though your suggestion is laughable)? Is the Cuban Communist Party just a bunch of Marcyite activists because they support the Syrian government but haven't sent troops?
I haven't, actually.
You're an opportunist, maybe you should work on that.
Someone here said they posted that imperialism is simply a stage of capitalist development characterized by the monopolization and financialization of the economy where the export of capital becomes more important that the export of physical goods, and that any capitalist nation will develop into this given the opportunity because it’s a part of the natural progression of capitalism (which is exactly Lenin’s theory) and they got banned for saying this.
I love this when it’s used as a rebuttal to the call to use the slightest modicum of realism and strategic thinking instead of approaching the whole thing like a fucking religious fanatic.
So you know what you're talking about instead of repeating falsehoods such as the following He split with Trotskyism over imperialism. Next you'll be saying Victor Serge died an anarchist despite becoming a Bolshevik. Hoxhaists don't claim to be a new tendency like MLM and their ideas are much more similar to MLs of the 20's-50's than most modern MLs. Nope, I've continually stated why you are a marcyite while your response has been screeching trot instead of attempting to explain how your anti-imperialism is not Marcy's global class war. I have and am about to start On Protracted War in fact. Try staying on topic. Tactics are central to any meaningful support. Otherwise it's a secular version of praying for a cause, if that's all you're doing at least be honest about your lack of contribution. I'll admit the thought of you doing anything irl is funny, but worker's organization is more useful to socialists than toothless demonstrations. I'm not sure, does their anti-imperialist stance look exactly like Marcy's global class war? They're certainly revisionist and possibly socdem given the recent reinstatement of property though.
The goal of the FBI is to neutralize activists / movements. And yes, they do this by sowing rumors, weaponizing sex, and going for individuals with either a carrot (we will pay you) or a stick (do you know what they do to boys like you in prison?).
Look for the people who are trying to neutralize individuals, groups, and efforts. Or individuals who think it's a really really good idea to bomb federal buildings and they know a guy who can provide the bombs and all you have to do is show up and press the button, etc.
It's a little extreme to say that Zig Forums is FBI but I think the spirit of the idea is correct – Zig Forums BO is utterly incompetent and all the rage against YPOLBO is utterly justified – Zig Forums must conduct itself properly when dealing with saboteurs, false flaggers, trolls etc.
Leftypol is dead to me now but it lives on in my memories ;_;
Can confirm, my grandpa used to work for the FBI before he quit for that reason. I believe it was called the office of internal affairs. Hoover is such a asshole. is a separate person (active FBI agent)
I still cannot believe it had to end like this. I remember when we were climbing the home page, the "we're coming bucko" memes, the feeling of the rising to make this place something more than the sewer of furry nazis. One of my favourite memories is when the site got hacked and the fag site owner restored leftypol as last board, it felt like a direct face to face, however puerile internet fights can be we were not irrelevant to the site, it all had sense. Than the spergout arrived and now we are back to irrilevance, fuck, it could have gone in a lot of other ways, not this shitty split that had no fucking reason existing if not for body odor stupidity
They're not sending their best, they're sending trannies
They can try all they want, but I enjoy arguing, so the point is 4/moot/
BO is many things, but a tranny isn’t one of them.
I was in an early thread where he was asking for nude pics/porn of black chicks. You don’t go from that to a dick sucking tranny in a couple of years, regardless of the Zig Forums meme.
It's not that COINTELPRO is still actively subverting the Left (at least online, IRL protest disruption is another matter), it's that so many leftists have spent time in the ideological and social atmosphere created by COINTELPRO that they've internalized it and made it their own.
It's not that BO is actually an FBI agent; rather, it's that he's just some regular guy who really believes that destroying a popular leftist imageboard by purging 2/3 of its users in order to make room for Reddit idpol tankies and Zig Forumsyps is actually a GOOD thing.
Assuming you’re legit, I can understand the value in having non-communist forces fighting American imperialism, and would back a line of critical/cynical support for them as useful idiots soaking up American bullets while real revolutionaries gather strength. But why do you feel the need to ban legitimate leftist criticism of these regimes? Why is it a bannable offence to point out and condemn the mass execution of communists by the Iranian regime? Or the Syrian government’s history of ethnic repression of non-Arabs? I would say that blatant shilling for imperialism, which would consist of explicitly saying that you want the Syrian regime to fall and be replaced with a US friendly one, *might* be justified as a bannable offence. But legitimate criticism should not be silenced, especially when these regimes are highly reactionary in domestic policy.
How much did the transition cost? You still take estrogen to this day?
Zig Forums is more likely to be a COINTELPRO diversion OP is probably COINTELPRO psyop could be Russian agency running the board
transgenderism is just a form of post-modern idpol, just like feminism is, nations should be built on otherwordly means and not earthly means.
FBI agent here.
I can confirm that Zig Forums is under the control of COINTELPRO. I can also confirm that those who accuse others of being COINTELPRO imperialist shills, are themselves controlled by our COINTELPRO. Our COINTELPRO agency consists of agents who accuse other agents of being COINTELPRO agents, which in turn do the same to our COINTELPRO agents.
If you don't know who's cointelproing who anymore, then we've done our job of preventing the global communist revolution that was about to emerge from Zig Forums. If you don't believe that I'm an FBI agent blowing the cover of COINTELPRO, then you've been succesfully rused by COINTELPRO. If you do believe that I'm an FBI agent telling you how our operation works, then you've become a paranoid asset of COINTELPRO.