What is your opinion on scout organizations? Do you think the scouts are "agents of capitalism as were people in communist countries told?
Are the scouts class enemies?
Only american scouts.
American scouts are litterally linked to the military.
In the rest of the world we are just a buncha kids who like to build fires and drink beer.
They're just kids, asshole. If you want to put them into something better bring back the Pioneers.
Just go fuck yourself, you idpol faggot.
Meh there just kids
Tbh in a socialist society Universal Military Conscription as a part of Uni or High School would be a good thing. So Scouts having military ties seems mild.
The thing is that it's not even true. BSA was founded by a guy who was impressed by a British scout on his trip to the UK. They call him the Unknown Scout. All scouting is militaristic in nature. It's supposed to breed leadership qualities in boys. I, personally, was in the 7th Day Adventist version of the scouts called the Pathfinders, and my brother was in the Boy Scouts. Fuck, the SDA church used to have the MCC, which was specifically to prepare people to serve as medics in the military.
Bro its not my problem that american scouts literally have a recruitment program to join the army as an officer. Nothing idpol about that you fucking retard
Except they're not. You're thinking of JROTC. And again, unlike the UK, BSA was founded by non-military and doesn't promote the military. Do your research before you start shitting on people just for being American.
Eagle scouts have an army officers programme.
To say that in socialism military is necessary is to completely missunderstand the final goal of socialism or what even a socialism even is. Unless you are talking about socialism in one country but even there i belive that the end goal of that is world scale socialism if im correct.
Eagle scout is a rank in the BSA, not a separate organization, nor a program for the US military. The military will grant you rank for achieving this, and the ROTC program looks favorably on this, but it is at the behest of the military, not the BSA. How do I know this? Because 1, my brother is an Eagle Scout, and 2, I spent 8 years as an infantryman in the US Army. So fuck off with your ignorant shit.
Really showing me up how the scouts arent army, armyboy.
Socialism will still necessitate peace-keeping, disaster-relief, and other activities that the military is uniquely posed to cope with. We don't have to be kicking down doors to have a good military.
Not an argument, and I wasn't in the scouts. I was in a religious organization similar to the scouts, in a religion where they strongly discourage becoming a combatant. My brother, on the other hand, has no interest in joining the military, nor has he been pushed toward it. I think it was a good program for him, and I think we should definitely make a socialist alternative, but stop trying to make this about Americans uniquely being evil for every little fucking thing. It really is just idpol.
Nothing wrong with this
There’s going to be a long period of time between when the next wave of revolutions succeed and the whole world is socialist. Also what said
Keep shouting idpol. Even though it isnt idpol.
Never implied it was. I'm largely in favor of such programs because they had a positive impact on my life. When I have kids, I'd like for them to be involved in something like it.
But are the kids in the scout organzations indoctrinated? Is there some kind of indoctrination by burgeois propaganda?
"America sucks and is an exception from the rest of the world" is generally a safe bet.
To a large extent, the scouts teach a lot of cuck behavior, like obeying loyal to your employers and shit. But largely the kids that stick with it, are good kids who are hard workers. Kids who are natural leaders are taught to harness this for good, and kids that aren't naturals, get taught skills, as I believe leadership is a skill that can be learned.
Now, does that mean that there isn't something better? No. I have always thought that bringing back the Pioneers would be a good thing for a sufficiently large socialist movement. A lot of people are going to call it indoctrination anyway. I call it education. Discipline and hard work aren't bad things to instill in children, especially boys.
Okay, so let's assume you are misinformed. I've merely set you straight. So why are you getting defensive?
It's a stupid thing to say. Capitalism sucks and has no exceptions anywhere. To think otherwise is retarded and when you make it about just being American, it becomes idpol. Come on, a dumb fucking grunt is schooling you here. I'm not going to claim I've read a lot of theory, but I definitely have the audiobook version.
Must have missed that lesson.
I like egging on americans
No not really. There is a reason americans use a completely different dictionary when it comes to politics than the rest of the world. American exceptionalism is a real thing, its exceptionally weird most of the time.
Part of the whole loyalty thing.
The thing is that if you're acting like an idiot, eventually people that take it seriously are going to join you unironically. That's how Zig Forums is now. Everything anti-American is good by default.
Yeah, because this is a largely conservative nation and always has been. It doesn't make us any different, and words are just words in the end. It's material conditions that matter, and so far, you should look at the average poor person in the US. They're certainly more fucked than the equivalent in western Europe.
American exceptionalism is idealism. It doesn't actually exist. We work, just like you, and are exploited like capital, just like you. This anti-Americanism for its own sake only divides the working class of the world and keeps making it an us vs them in terms of proles. The real enemy is capitalism, not each other.
Must have missed that lesson too.
Was that between the building fires and beating each other up?
I am anti american. Name me one good thing about america.
Like I said, america is bizzarroland. So rich and so much poverty for a first world nation.
I know that comrade, but I will keep kicking your country until it stops exporting all its retardation our way and until it stops being the world hegemonic protector of capitalism.
(especially since many of my countrymen think america is the glorious utopia of the world where all the cool shit like silicon valley is, when in reality our own country is objectively better to live in)
Are you not aware that there is a code for scouts?
Criticizing my country is one thing. Saying that things are bad because they are American is another. As for one good thing about America, I'd have to say that I live here, and so does my family, and I get to go hunting this weekend. That's all pretty good. We also have a lot of good people, contrary to what you might believe.
Yes, and it's certainly not the individual American's fault. This is also not the exception. It's the norm. There is a good reason why many Europeans call the US "third-world-tier" derisively. Countries with high social mobility, safety nets, and good living standards such as in whatever country you may be from are the exception. Maybe we should call it western European exceptionalism.
This is a futile action, and you are only driving people to hate Americans, as that is the only thing the common man has access to that represents this country. If the US stops being the world's superpower, it will be someone else. Will you shift your hate to them? What did that accomplish? What useful things did you do with your time?
See theres an example of how its different.
We do an oath which goes like
Nothing about kind of weird law about subservience or anything.
Thats not a good thing about your country. "My family lives there" goes for every country.
Fine by me. Git gud then.
Creating anti-american sentiment is a good thing, just like creating anti-israeli sentiment. People do have some power and a growing anti american sentiment is a threat to global capitalist pax americana. Destabalization of the capitalist order (which america is the cornerstone of) allows left wing groups to operate more freely.
Yes. I am already telling people the chinese are going to be the scramble for africa twice over again, and the whole south china sea thing.
So just give up capitalism will last forever. Its not like in geopolitical turmoil revolutions have been able to take root.
Stability is the enemy of revolution. Stability of slavery is the enemy of humanity.
Country? UK has a very similar oath.
Exactly, which means you can't just hate a whole country that is filled with your proletarian brothers and sisters. Hate the establishment, their government, sure, but not the people as a whole, and especially don't assume something is bad or classcucked just because it's American.
What does this even mean? Did you read anything I just wrote?
No. This is not good. I used to be pretty fucking bitter about Israel, but again, most of the people are just misinformed, or fucked like the rest of us. They are not all Benjamin Netanyahu. They're just people.
Except it's not. You're not going to get your government to stop doing shit that capitalism wants. The US is juts an avatar for that. You can get people to hate Americans, but that isn't going to matter in the upper echelons of American government or society.
You're not going to achieve this without Americans, and vilifying them at every turn isn't going to help. Remember: capitalism is the enemy.
And yet you have so-called socialists today, defending this, because, "At least they're not Americans". A vacuum left by the US is filled by another capitalist power. This changes nothing.
Telling you that you can't heal your cancer with witchcraft doesn't mean I don't want you to get better. I'm just telling you it's a shit way to go about it.
America hate doesn't cause geopolitical turmoil. Your governments will continue to acquiesce to business interests as will our government, no matter how much you hate it. Most Americans distrust the government, and yet there it is. Most Americans think their politicians sell them out, yet there they are. We Americans, mostly, hate our government, but that hasn't gotten us anywhere. Why do you think this is? Because there is no theory and no action. So what is a socialist to do? We must unite and form the alternative. This is how you destabilize the system, not by simply getting your friends to hate Americans. How many Americans are going to want to be socialists if it is perceived as being some sort of self-hating group? In the Army they taught us about counterinsurgency. Part of the fight is in the hearts and minds of the people. Americans are no different. It's as they say, "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."
Capitalism is not a stable system, but it isn't the hate of a group of people that destabilizes it. This is not materialist thinking. Capitalism has within it, the seeds of its own destruction. Another economic crisis is coming. What are you doing to build solidarity and friendship with your prole friends at home and abroad? If we, as socialists, fail to do this, we will have wasted another opportunity, and no amount of anti-Americanism will buy you another until the cycle repeats itself.
I tried looking up some form of official oath but none of them match the ones I did at 2 different groups (who did the same one)
Thats now how it works.
The base is generally dominant but material conditions are also shaped by the superstructure. So international policy can impact politics. This is shown by people like trump. who by all accounts wasnt big capitals choice and is singlehandedly destroying agreements and international relations that took an army of burocrats and coups decades to build up. I truly believe that to kill capitalism more effectively is by limiting the power of international capital. With trade wars going, multinationals will be less able to operate and attacking a decided system is easier than attacking a globalized system.
There are no communists here, nor are there socialists. Nothing to build.
Not that my country on its own could do anything, since it relies on trade so heavily.
But what we could do is try to seperate the EU from american control and try to isolate the US, ensuring more freedom of operation by our own movements rather than an additional superpower suppressing left wing groups in europe and other nations.
I know that feel, man.
I can see that, but you do understand that there are people that unironically celebrate Americans dying, no? And they cloud it in the same sentiment.
No. This is not the case. The superstructure is responsible for the resulting perception of the material conditions. However, it cannot, by itself, change anything about them. Only by experiencing a change in material conditions, can an idea spread and be used to change perception on the material conditions, but it was the change in material conditions that is ultimately responsible.
It's one group of capitalist fighting another. While Trump ruins a few fortunes here and there, he's promoted policies to rob the proles even further. We're getting fucked all the same.
The suffering imposed by global capital must come to pass. It's unfortunate that we have to say this, but it's true. Capitalist enterprise will mechanize and industrialize every last corner of the world, transforming societies that remain unexposed to capitalism. International capital will ultimately eat itself. You are trying to wrangle a beast that is self-destructive. The biggest tragedy of the US is social democracy putting a stop to revolutionary furor in the US.
You would be wrong. People in all countries have some sort of discontent with the system. Even in well-paying jobs like mine, there are people that are massively unhappy with their jobs. Working 70+ hours a week stops being worth it if you can't ever see your family, not matter how much you seem to make.
Not your country. Your people. Hard times will hit all of us in the future, bet on it. Focus on young people, and if not, come to America some time. We would love to have more people from abroad come and visit sometime and show some solidarity.
The ultimate power is capital. This isn't going away, no matter how many alliances you ruin, or even if you were to disband NATO. But, if you don't have contact with a group of like-minded people, I suggest you start prodding a bit with people you already trust. I think you'll be surprised. I certainly was.
Fuck off Naphtali
I’m an Eagle Scout. Ask me stuff I guess.
Do you think being in the scouts was a good thing for you?
Why are the new Girl Scout uniforms so much less sexy than the old ones?
No. Class enemies aren't created by picking up trash or driving a boat, class enemies are created when someone goes to a top 10 college on their parents money and treats everyone else like shit because they're so smart and got into such a great school. Even if scouts become class enemies (say by becoming a cop as many do or dying for Israel), this happens after they leave it.
I learned a bunch of outdoors stuff and also, more recently, I got a couple of my friends in the troop interested in Marxism, and a bunch more just into commie memes.
It really depends on your local chapter, the scouts are more like a franchise than an cohesive organization. Everyone's experience is going to be different, especially depending on location. It gets to over 100 degrees (F) in the summer here, there wasn't very much hiking or camping and we mainly did indoor activities, it was actually pretty lame.
Dat hair, though.
I am still waiting for long hair full of product to come back in style. It will be a long wait.
Universal conscription is a meme from the imperialist west. Universal service is a better goal. Not everyone is the right material for a military, and there are usually better ways to have people spend their time than everyone spending a few years in the military like building infrastructure or planting forests or whatever.
Everybody should at the very least get basic military/guerilla training in case they need to defend something.
I don't know how useful BMT would be to anyone who is not in a military organization. Its primary function is to teach trainees to follow simple instructions.
You do know that most roles in the military are non-combat roles, right?
Take it from a non-combat veteran: most people are not suited to military life regardless of whether they get shot at or not. There is something profoundly wrong with the feeling of being owned by an institution that does not care one bit about your well-being, and once a person notices that the mission is something that the career assholes only give lip-service to while playing the game and shoveling bullshit around it becomes miserable to just to put the uniform on in the morning.
The thin skin on this one.
Jesus, you were in the military for how many years? I would have expected you to pull an FMJ in basic if you are upset about petty semantics, nevermind in the field.