Intel has their management engine, AMD does the same and ARM architecture is shit

Intel has their management engine, AMD does the same and ARM architecture is shit.
What considerable alternatives are there?

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIC_microcontroller
networkworld.com/article/3236064/servers/minix-the-most-popular-os-in-the-world-thanks-to-intel.html
libreboot.org/faq.html#intelme
firmwaresecurity.com/2017/12/06/bheu-slides-on-intel-me-vuln-uploaded/
libreboot.org/faq.html#amd-platform-security-processor-psp
libreboot.org/amd-libre.html
reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5xvn4i/update_corebootlibreboot_on_amd_has_ceo_level/
mobile.twitter.com/Snowden/status/837367956229206016
yro.slashdot.org/story/17/07/19/1459244/amd-has-no-plans-to-release-psp-code
libreboot.org/docs/hardware/#desktops-amd-intel-x86
libreboot.org/docs/hardware/#serversworkstations-amd-x86
libreboot.org/docs/hardware/#laptops-intel-x86
puri.sm/learn/freedom-roadmap/
crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
imx6rex.com/open-rex/
coreboot.org/Chromebooks
docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eGPMu03vCxIO0a3oNX8Hmij_Qwwz6R6ViFC_1HlHOYQ/edit#slide=id.p
cavium.com/Table.html
shop.kobol.io/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_graphics_device_driver#ARM
lwn.net/Articles/738225/
github.com/altreact/archbk/issues/3
raptorcs.com/TALOSII/
nxp.com/products/microcontrollers-and-processors/power-architecture-processors
powerpc-notebook.org/faq/
embeddedplanet.com/product/single-board-computers/
code.coreboot.org/p/openfirmware/source/tree/HEAD/
lemote.com/html/product/
embeddedplanet.com/single-board-computers/processor/cavium-oceteon-ii/
crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-1
crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-2
code.coreboot.org/p/openboot/source/tree/1/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC#Implementations
sifive.com/products/freedom/
lowrisc.org/
librecmc.org/
gogs.librecmc.org/libreCMC/libreCMC/wiki/Supported Hardware
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-project_wafer_service
sharps.org/wp-content/uploads/BECKER-CHES.pdf
clifford.at/icestorm/
fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_single-board_computers
openbsd.org/armv7.html
openbsd.org/arm64.html
marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=151527756600887&w=2
twitter.com/AnonBabble

POWER9

DIY SoC implemented on a FPGA.

Take that old Nintendo wii out of your attic, and BAM, you've got a PPC computer ready to go.

this

Besides PIC en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIC_microcontroller there's only IBM openpower with POWER9 and the Talos motherboard.
From what I know it's the only and least evil solutions (since we still don't have the blueprints nor the vhdl).

Gonna post my retardedly long list of stuff. Hasn't been updated in a while, so i'm probably missing some stuff, but here we go.

This is a list of hardware that is relatively botnet-free.
The Intel ME and other components are a serious threat to user privacy.

I'm glad you asked! The Intel ME, or Management Engine, is a secondary co-processor in every single Intel chip in the last decade.
It runs a MINIX-based operating system and has full networking capabilities, drivers, and a goddamn web server in it.
networkworld.com/article/3236064/servers/minix-the-most-popular-os-in-the-world-thanks-to-intel.html
This page offers additional information, and explains that it can read your files and applications, act as a keylogger, capture the screen, inject rootkits, etc.
libreboot.org/faq.html#intelme
Very nasty stuff, and no, the HAP bit thing isn't a full fix
firmwaresecurity.com/2017/12/06/bheu-slides-on-intel-me-vuln-uploaded/

AMD has its own botnet, called the PSP, or Platform Securiy Processor.
Here's what it is:
libreboot.org/faq.html#amd-platform-security-processor-psp
Here's Libreboot asking for it to be opened up in Ryzen:
libreboot.org/amd-libre.html
Here's Plebbit asking for it:
reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5xvn4i/update_corebootlibreboot_on_amd_has_ceo_level/
Here's Edward motherfucking Snowden asking for it:
mobile.twitter.com/Snowden/status/837367956229206016
And here's AMD telling everyone to go fuck themselves:
yro.slashdot.org/story/17/07/19/1459244/amd-has-no-plans-to-release-psp-code

That's the point of this thread. To highlight options that are out there that are relatively free of botnets.
This will include the typical Librebooted memepads and whatnot, but a big part of this is also exploring alternative architectures.

For inclusion into this list, if the processor is made by Intel Corporation or Advanced Micro Devices, the device must be 100% free as in Libreboot.
Otherwise, a less-extreme stance is taken, and something like Coreboot or U-boot will suffice.

Findings so far
x86 (Supported Distros: Basically all):
For desktops, there's lots of C2Ds and atoms listed, but also some very nice opterons and apparently an iMac
libreboot.org/docs/hardware/#desktops-amd-intel-x86
libreboot.org/docs/hardware/#serversworkstations-amd-x86
For Laptops, you have the CD and C2D memepads
libreboot.org/docs/hardware/#laptops-intel-x86
Purism doesn't do libreboot, but their roadmap includes this as a future goal.
puri.sm/learn/freedom-roadmap/
The last AMD chip that came without the PSP is Piledriver.
VIA also makes x86 processors. Proprietary BIOS, but maybe Coreboot potential?

ARM (Supported Distros: Most)
Obviously there's a shit ton of SBCs
One of these is EOMA68, which features 3D-printable housings, and potential RYF cert.
crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
iMX6 Rex is an education-based SBC that combines elements of a Pi and an Arduino. It uses U-Boot.
imx6rex.com/open-rex/
For a laptop option with an open firmware, try ARM Chromebooks.
I'm dead serious. Open it up, remove the write protection, reflash coreboot with different payload (Not seaBIOS or Depthcharge), install loonix of choice.
coreboot.org/Chromebooks
docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eGPMu03vCxIO0a3oNX8Hmij_Qwwz6R6ViFC_1HlHOYQ/edit#slide=id.p
Cavium makes some god-tier processors. Be on the lookout for that.
cavium.com/Table.html
Helios4 is an open-hardware NAS with U-boot
shop.kobol.io/

In general, your biggest concern with ARM is the GPU drivers.
Mali is fucked. PowerVR too. Vivante GC and Qualcomm Ardreno are fine. Broadcom VideoCore is partial.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_graphics_device_driver#ARM
MALI MIGHT BE GETTING OPENED UP PRAISE LINUX TORVALDS TECH TIPS
lwn.net/Articles/738225/
Some anons have reported that lighter environments like XFCE are usable on stuff like Mali without the driver, but it's not ideal.
One user said he couldn't remove the ChromeOS on his libreboot C201. This github issue talks about a solution.
github.com/altreact/archbk/issues/3

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Second part:
OpenPOWER (Supported Distros: Fedora, Debian, CentOS/RHEL, OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, BSDs):
Raptor Engineering sells POWER9 workstations, that may soon be getting RYF certification.
They're expensive as fuck, but probably the most powerful non-botnet computers that exist. Comparable to Xeons/Epyc.
raptorcs.com/TALOSII/

PowerPC (Supported Distros: Gentoo, Free/Open/NetBSD)
The company that still makes this is NXP
nxp.com/products/microcontrollers-and-processors/power-architecture-processors
Here is a project for a Libre PowerPC laptop using NXP, shooting for RYF certification.
powerpc-notebook.org/faq/
EmbeddedPlanet has several PowerPC SBCs, most using NXP.
embeddedplanet.com/product/single-board-computers/
If you have old PowerPC Apple products, they use OpenFirmware, which is here
code.coreboot.org/p/openfirmware/source/tree/HEAD/
Recommended models if you want to buy one: late PowerBook G4, PowerMac G5

MIPS (Supported Distros: Debian, Gentoo, NetBSD):
The /csg/ of desktops. Lemote is a chink company that sells libre MIPS boards, using PMON firmware.
lemote.com/html/product/
EmbeddedPlanet also has MIPS boards with processors from Cavium with U-boot firmware.
embeddedplanet.com/single-board-computers/processor/cavium-oceteon-ii/
GnuBee has two low power NAS devices. They're cheap, they use MIPS, and they're going for RYF!
crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-1
crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-2

SPARC (Supported Distros: *BSD, Gentoo, Illumos):
Legit server stuff here. Open ISA and Open Boot firmware.
code.coreboot.org/p/openboot/source/tree/1/
Below link is a big list of options, from ancient 80s shit, to modern servers released this year with 5.0GHz and 32 cores
And of course, everything in between
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC#Implementations

RISC-V (Supported Distros: FreeBSD):
Only SBCs here. SiFive has some.
sifive.com/products/freedom/
There's also LowRISC
lowrisc.org/

For Routers, check out LibreCMC and its supported list.
librecmc.org/
gogs.librecmc.org/libreCMC/libreCMC/wiki/Supported Hardware

I just recently discovered retroBSD, which can be installed on a PIC32. Kind of interesting, but obviously impractical for anything modern.

This is the way to go.

Too much of a hassle.

This tbh

How fast would that be compared to a standard IC?

(checked)
Just use FPGA for prototyping, then use
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-project_wafer_service

You design it then hand of the designs to some unknown for fab? That doesn't sound very good, especially if it's anywhere that has Chinese or communists involved, like Germany.

Who cares if they steal your design? Signals intelligence agencies won't be able to design bugs into it in the time period from you handing over your design to it being created.
And even if they had some wonder team that can do so in days (they don't), they wouldn't bother to do it for small student projects being produced on only a few wafers.
Now, if you do this over and over and they are aware you are creating non-compromised CPUs, then they might spend some time to design bugs in future versions and approach the fab, but more likely they would approach you first, so you would know they know about your operation.
Easy way to avoid this is just make all you need in a couple of years and then sell them AFTER they've been fabbed.
Also, since you're putting them together, you could image them under a microscope and see if the layout matches your design.

Do you have any proof about what you are saying, because otherwise doubt is not a reason for trust.

Also, the
is dismissing the fact that all large FPGAs are botnetted!
It's like saying you're buying an intel cpu for a 'secure desktop' you're building and then saying

Learn how much time it takes to design a complex integrated circuit, and then determine the time required to modify the design in a way that compromises its security and is difficult to detect.
You are implying they can do so in a short period of time, which is a much bigger assumption IMO.
Also, since you can view the final product under a microscope and match it to your own design, the point is moot.

I am less worried about them introducing new designs and more worried about them finding flaws in the design and exploiting it that way.

That's a good point. Only a verifiably correct and bug free design (not sure if possible for hardware and would probably make design take 10x longer) could alleviate that risk.
And even if one were able to produce verifiably correct hardware on a design level, I just discovered this
sharps.org/wp-content/uploads/BECKER-CHES.pdf
which would make microscope analysis of the finished product useless for detecting introduced bugs.

Still though, I think FPGAs with coprocessors on them are a bigger risk.

clifford.at/icestorm/
The ice40 FPGA series are the only FPGAs (there are no CPLDs or ASICs ones) who can be programmed with an entirely free toolchain (from a HDL to the bitstream you send the FPGA) meaning you don't need to use any huge, bloated, and proprietary IDEs by the manufacturer.

The microprocessor I'm currently designing is targeting one of the higher end ice40s. It's kind of a fun project and am planning to at least support VGA and PS/2 connectors so I can use it as a simple computer.

Thanks for the list. Raspberry Pi isn't listed, and I also remember reading somewhere that it has something like Intel's management engine in it. Do you have any information about it?

For that one, it needs a binary blob to even boot properly, afaik

Is there somewhere I can read about this?

Probably about 100-400 MHz.

There are several threads in the catalog on this exact subject

Ehh. I wonder how bad they are after coupling that with their IPC.

Librebooted ThinkPads are unstable in terms of performance (probably the lack of microcode). That's why I'd recommend a POWER9 workstation over everything.

Basically this and only this from a practical perspective, everything else is RPi-tier in terms of performance.


Power8 and newer supports both BE and LE you mongoloid, the CPU firmware selects which mode at boot and by default selects LE. Thats why Canonical and such list PPC64LE

Even using MPW you are still looking at thousands of dollars per 1MM^2 for old processes like 40nm and tens of thousands for newer processes like 14nm.


TSMC and other large fabs deal with thousands of customers a year for their shuttle service, do you really think they are going to destroy their reputation by going out of their way to reverse engineer a CPU designed by some nobody just so they can insert hardware backdoors into a CPU which is going to be used by a grand total of one person? You are delusional as all hell. Reverse engineering even a small CPU from the masks is like reverse engineering a compiled binary by hand without knowing what each instruction actually is.


Slow, I remember seeing something about Nvidias massive clusters of FPGAs they use to prototype GPUs and they run at a fraction of the speed that the final product does.


Probably on the lower end of that for anything larger than a Microblaze or generic MIPS processor.

Industrial espionage is a real thing.

I know, but last time I checked the guy I was responding to probably isn't Jensen Huang or Lisa Su and it was TSMC being mentioned and not some no name fab in China. TSMC and Global Foundries aren't stupid enough to physically alter designs because their business depends on large companies trusting them with their IP.

Also a reminder TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company) is NOT Chinese no matter how much the putrid soulless Chink drones try to take over Taiwan's national identity and turn it into a puppet state

Allegedly, even the RPI boards can use open firmware nowadays. The FSF has a page about this, but it appears to be outdated:
fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers
Anyway there's so many ARM boards to choose from, you don't have to buy RPI. Pick whichever one fits your needs.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_single-board_computers
openbsd.org/armv7.html
openbsd.org/arm64.html
marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=151527756600887&w=2

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Sorry meant to reply