Why is this fucking crap coming back again? Have people really not learned their goddamn lesson from the '70s? You don't fight capital by dividing the working class along ethnic lines.
Guess what? You're a minority in the rest of America as well! The whole point of democracy is that you don't get an extra vote based on some ancillary bullshit like the amount of money you have, the color of your skin, etc. Learn to organize with whites, that's when real progress will be made.
I think I'm starting to understand this "whitesplaining" thing, must be real tiring for black people to constantly be chastised for doing their own thing.
That's funny
STFU YOU STUPID FUCKING NIGGER KILL YOURSELF
I think the opposite is the case. Communist parties never really made much progress in America outside of first-generation European immigrant enclaves because they had this class-reductionist analysis, which made sense in Europe but did not in the United States. It's like trying to slam a square peg into a round hole; it doesn't work and will just isolate you from the masses of working people in America.
Black workers are exploited as workers just as white workers, but black workers are also exploited on the basis of being black; and white workers will often identify with ruling elites because at least they're not doing nigger work. This has been replicated many times where in a factory, management will steer black workers and white workers into different shops with blacks doing the hardest and dirtiest work.
And I'm not pulling that out of my ass either. Hardline class-only Marxism has been tried in the United States (the 1920s and 1930s) and it faceplanted hard. I'll tell you right now that you're gonna have to Americanize communism for it to have any chance of succeeding here rather than trying to impose Euro-style communism on America.
I'm tankie sympathetic but this orthodox tankie business going around in America right now reminds me of these alt-right groups like "Identity Evropa" who dress up their members in Italian loafers and which are clearly trying to mimic European groups but that stuff has limited appeal over here.
Gonna crosspost from leftypol's "decolonization" thread.
Serious post, I don't really know but I live near the Chickasaw Nation in Oklahoma where my mother goes to gamble at their big casino. The tribe operates casinos which is their primary source of revenue, along with police agencies and hospitals; and a housing assistance program. I'm not up on the details of how all that works though. I wouldn't mind retiring out there inside a concrete dome/bunker house which not only protects from tornadoes but also saves on utility bills.
All I can really add: I get on board with "idpol" (or what's often derided here as that) to the extent that "whiteness" needs to be destroyed. I don't think European leftists really understand the extent to which race permeates everything in the United States, which is a colonial construction, and how while it'd be nice for everyone to see each other as "workers," the first thing most Americans recognize when they look at other people is their race. I'd give a listen to Doug's interview with Peter Hudis the other day on the Zero Books podcast: the communist parties never really expanded beyond the European immigrant enclaves in the U.S. because they didn't understand this. To just treat natives, or black Americans, as any other "worker" will not fly. So the extent to which I'd decolonize America, I would eliminate whiteness as that is a colonial construction.
Meaning to say that white solidarity should not be a thing. White solidarity is an obstacle to the development of a proletarian consciousness and proletarian solidarity. When meeting an American Indian the question I usually ask is "what nation are your people," since they belong to specific tribes.
And here we see the communist mind in action, anything more beautiful, more splendid, more actual than anything cast in the prefabricated moulds of their delirious prophet, must be destroyed and eliminated.
Maybe the SJW's do have a point then, for there must something deeply wrong with the white race too fall into such decrepitness as you display here.
Way to completely miss the point, dumb Burger.
It's not about something being inherently wrong with "the white race", it's about the colonial construct known as "whiteness".
This is one thing I've noticed about Americans, they can only ever take things one way, and if you don't go along with it you are missing their point, strawmanning them, taking them out of context..
I would say there is definitely something wrong with the white race when it starts to deem itself a "colonial construct", a mere folly in a conspiracy, that needs to be eliminated in the belief that this will allow the fantasies of its resentful detractors to manifest.
If this was some authentic sentiment of universal love, I could understand it, but it is not, is it the moaning of cretins to whom everything is a construct, a structural institutional systematic mechanism that produces problematics.
See this shit right here is what I'm talking about. You're acting as if "the white race" is some sentient being, something that somehow gains introspection.
You cannot have this discussion because you are so entrenched in your racialism, thinking that races move and behave as some cohesive unit like a game of Warcraft.
You need to stop identifying as white, it fucking rots your brain.
No one supposes it to be a conspiracy but rather that racial categories arose as a justification for slavery and the oppression of the native peoples in overseas colonies.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The idea that everything is merely constructed with no relation to material reality isn't Marxist in the first place. The discussion was specifically about the construction of racial categories in the context of early capitalism and colonialism, not about everything being constructed and purely ideal.
Admittedly, though, I had to laugh at a racial category being described as:
What a "delirious" bit of encomium, and all for something that is itself a prefabricated mould hardly representative of any individual.
That is exactly how you describe capitalism and the bourgeois, and it is for the very reason that your marxist dichotomies remain enclosed in your sect that you want to eliminate the white race, because race permeates everything, and your communism demands this everything to revolve around itself.
It would indeed be hard to have this discussion with you, as this discussion necessitates that I limit my use of words to those that fit into the confines of your tiny hole, from which everything that stands above it is a construct to keep you down.
American blacks barely have history, they were taken from Africa, put to work as slaves, and that's it. This causes resentment among them, so they overcompensate by reducing all of history to their history.
Correct, marxism holds the idea that everything is but a construct, an opium, a false consciousness, to be material reality. It's Schopenhauer with an escape clausule.
What individual? An individual individual? Like a tall height or a warm length?
There not advocating “kill white” or anything, just let them be.
>>>Zig Forums
Communist parties were popular among a lot of different workers in the North pre-1950s than McCarthyism and the Cold War killed it, not racism. The south was to backwards and agrarian to have a strong Communist movement during this time.
Exploitation is a real material think that is mearsible and calculable. Cultural Voodoo isn’t.
No it nearly succeeded in Revolution tell McCarthy and the cold war came around.
It succeeded and the CPUSA in the 30s (before they became idpol obsessed) were pretty class reductionist and had a “European” mindset yet them still ended up being one of the major forces towards ending racism and segregation in the pre-McCarthy era. What killed America Communism was the Cold War and McCarthy, not a refusal to give brown people extra seats at the party congress.
Maybe you should explain it because when people use the words “eliminate” next to an ethnicity bad shit happens.
pick one, either you hate Burgers or you think there special, not both
What are the elements of this material? Are they carbon, copper.. perhaps zinc?
People need to eat no matter their "race".
I know that account. It's really just one dude with an Instagram account and a website who interviews people like Richard Wolff. He's extremly opportunistic, he thinks the USSR was "state capitalism" and shills coops in a market. Sometimes this account posts stuff that makes you think that it is just CIA.
You're too racist to realize that whites eat beef and potatos, blacks eat chicken and watermelon and latinos eat pork and beans.
The irony!
They arnen't really idpol though. They have the word "black" in their name but all they do is talk about worker coops, socialism, etc. It's the opposite of what idpol groups do.
Are these guys talking about doing the Black Panthers thing? If so, are they accepting non-black members? I would get on board if they are trying to do what Bobby Seale and Huey Newton started off doing.
Fuck off with that intersectionality shit.
You mean that very period in history when it was stronger than it has been before or since?
Ah, that explains it.
I bet that even Fanon himself would not agree with that were he alive right now. The "whiteness" that he describes does not appear at all as it once did in North America.
Settlers now? Come the fuck on.
My ass. Jesus titty-fucking Christ, I wish that I could find some non-leninist socialists who would ignore my ethnicity.
Next time try asking me about my favorite football team. I have a lot more to say about them than I do about my "nation."
An Okie just called a guy a "Burger." Top kek.
Peoples do not have their own history, no matter what the pomo "historians" who have infested academia may claim. History is the study of things that happened. Nobody can rightly claim a birthright to a particular narrative; the concept is nonsensical. That said, there is plenty of historical material related to American black people.
I do not accept this generalization at all. Certain individuals and certain groups most definitely sell "black history" to black people, and some black people buy it.
pic related
>>>Zig Forums
Opinion discarded
you can at least post their manifesto or the interview they did with wolff before condemning the whole organization
blacksocialists.us
youtube.com
that has plagued the radical Left in America
for over a century
Trash
The CPUSA actually course-corrected somewhat and did exactly what you're saying they didn't do. But there has always been suspicion in the American communist movement toward (what we now call) idpol.
The exploitation of black workers in America is measurable in a distinct way. Not only in differentiation based on wages and rents but also on the differentiation of labor in factory shops. Why were black caucuses formed in unions to begin with? It's because black workers discovered that efforts to improve their lives ran into obstacles imposed by their fellow workers and by union bureaucrats. And black workers felt that it was necessary to organize their own caucuses to address their specific needs that were not being addressed by the general class struggle.
If you're a leftist organizer in the United States, and you are trying to organize, you won't make much progress with blacks if you just go into it completely colorblind. Blacks will not trust you and it's not for no reason. They have very good reason. But whether or not these struggles have to do with the class struggle or not (and they often don't) that doesn't mean the struggles are not important or not worth supporting. Unions operate within the capitalist framework but I still support unions.
Ah one more thing:
A divided working class was much more vulnerable to McCarthy, and it was divided in part because communists were never able to overcome this conflict over class reductionism. We can argue until the heat death of the universe what direction it should've gone in, but I think the class reductionist approach hurt the American left more than it helped and is what prevented the development of a mass base.
there is no white proletariat
read settlers race war is coming
Read settlers by j sakai
Oh hey look it's IDpol thread #983696235980238
So, how is Noverber 5th, 1955 treating you, Doc?
In the 30’sthey say racial differences as distracting from class struggle. And this was when they set up CORE, Congress on Racial Equality. You can be anti-idpol and anti-rascistat the same time. Which is what CPUSA was during the 30’s, when they were the most popular they ever were and ever will be.
And this was during the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. When racism had a real material existence. Now it’s all cultural voodoo, and saying that blacks now a days get payed less for the same job, or are charged higher rent is LARPing in the past. This isn’t a successful strategy for Communists.
If there “struggles” have nothing to do with class struggle, these issues should be addressed in a space other than a fucking COMMUNIST PARTY, a space based on Marxist Philosophy which is based around the belief that all History is the history of Class Struggle.
Again see CORE
No Socdem reforms + fear of the Soviets made Burgrland afraid of McCarthy.
Communist class reductionism solved the racial issue, the problem was the rest of society didn’t.
And I think your a fucking idiot
t Zig Forums
You still haven't explained how what they are doing makes any sense.
Not sure what makes you think I'm an Okie. I'm European.
How did the idea of anti-racism NOT BEING anti-idpol even happen!?
People like Sargon of Mossad claiming to be anti-idpol, while supporting right-wing idpol, but dressing it up as “facts and logic.”
So you are not with the tank flag who is arguing the same position and said:
Well, as I said it's a crosspost from leftypol. Guess I could've specified that it wasn't my post originally.
Care to name an example? I mean, he's obviously right-wing, but last I checked, he wanted people to simply ignore race, not make it their identity.
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
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Dr Wolff, I'm CIA.
If they were the "White Socialists of America" but not advocating to "kill black", would you let them be?
He’s knee-deep in right-wing idpol. Nor on race tough, on other stuff.
Why can't race as a social concept just die. :(
Surely you mean 'Carl of Swindon', that still sounds too impressive.
Haha, wow! Samuel L. Jackson is such a great actor!
Because if people united as one then they might get ideas of unionising, socialism, class-struggle and my profits would be in danger.
It's much better and part of human nature that a poor white person identify with a rich white person than with that poor black family who lives down the street.
Also he keeps trying to pick fights with the aut right and gets continually BTFO.
well you heard it from gordon freeman. racism is when famous people talk about race
Hardline class-only Marxism has been tried in the United States (the 1920s and 1930s)
Literally could not be more incorrect. The third period CPUSA explicitly organized around antiracism, famously defending The Scottsboro boys and fighting for self determination for the oppressed black nation in the US. This was enormously successful.
...
Seems like an argument for communist parties to organize around anti-racism then.
When will this meme die?
so, reddit rapefugee or falseflagging Zig Forumsyp?
definitely a reddit rapefugee
How is it even possible to get BTFO by the aut-right? It's like losing a chess match with a downer.
It might be if Jim Crow were still around.
This is a sterling example of why idealists are completely counterproductive.
It is, I fucked up and didn’t put the arrow in front of the top statement, everything above the green text is also quoting the user I replied to.
How do you think they kept black people from voting during Jim Crow? It wasn’t with laws prohibiting them on the basis of their being black, because that was unconstitutional. They used literacy tests and then were lenient on white potential voters and vicious with black potential voters. It was impossible to legally prove that what was going on violated either the 14th or 15th amendment, which is why the voting rights act didn’t ban racial voting discrimination, it banned the various ‘tests’ used by the southern states to implicitly discriminate.
From what all white petit-bourgeois suburban enclave do you idiots all come from?
What a fascinating bit of history that I have never heard before. Wow that must have been terrible, but of course none of us would know about any of that apart from the occasional Boomer who may happen by.
Next you will say that black people are still disproportionately affected by police violence.
Shut up nigger I'm a minority myself.
An argument against what? Shit that happened before any of us were born? The Civil Rights Movement is over, and we don't need to revisit it over disproportionate representation.
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As long as they don't associate with BLM faggots, nor parrot IdPol horseshit, I'm indifferent if they name themselves as their skin color.
It's cringy as fuck, yes, but they have the benefit of doubt.