Hey! My son RESPECTS me

Respect is earned. Love is obligation

>Love is obligation

I get where you're coming from, how you should "love" your family no matter what because you need to be there for each other, but for better or for worse, I've been instilled with Individualism and if any of my family cries for help I'm going to ask "where were you when I needed help?"

Goofy's solution to the problem was to keep Max as a child, the one he could more easily coexist with and related to. When children are inquisitive and learning, they are more willing to obey those they trust to teach them. This is, most obviously, a parent in most children's situation, with Max's being no different. As children grow up, however, their cognitive faculties begin to mature and are more capable of rationalizing the world around them independently. The role of the parent as arbiter of subjective truth is diminished and, in that way, children tend to start to distance themselves. When parents become overbearing in trying to retain that relationship, it causes friction. This move to keep a growing child in this state is a take on Seligman's 'learned helplessness'.

Goofy eventually learned that his solution of keeping Max helpless (by treating him as an adolescent) was incorrect, and changed his approach to syncretizing his personal skills and hobbies into Max's own interests (The Perfect Catch becoming a dance move, for example).

In this way, Goofy showed himself to be a flawed but rational and compassionate father, which Pete is not.

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>yeah well my son got laid a hyuck

naruhodone, well said

Both fathers represents radical ends of parental retardness

Respect and fear are not the same thing, though they are sometimes intertwined

Do you think fear has any place in the relatioship between child and parent? I loved the shit out of my mother but I wont deny I was a tiny bit scared of her.

>confederate flag colorway
UH OHHH

What's the difference, home boy?

None whatsoever. A child should naturally fear things like striking (

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I honestly couldn't take this moment seriosuly, mainly because of how implausible it is for Pete to run into the Goofs twice in a row during the trip. Like, we see that montage of the Goofs travelling across the entire country and stopping in a motel not far from LA, only for Pete to randomly drop by in the same motel as them.

Now that's some quality autism

God damn, well there goes a previously life long held belief.

In your opinion, can an ideal parent exist?

It's quite implausible and forced. I can understand them running into each other in those woods, since Pete was taking his son for camping, but the second time in the motel was just silly. Was Pete following Goofy or something ?

Do they expect me to believe that, inmediately after that montage, they just happened to stop in the same motel during the very same night ? youtube.com/watch?v=zY-3WRy_gg0

This is a cartoon film lead by Goofy, where complete strangers synchronize perfectly for impromptu musicals; the leads hijack the scenario of a famous pop star in the middle of his show are rewarded for it; Bigfoot exists and knows how to dance to the Bee Gees.

But Pete meeting the Goofs twice is where you stop suspending disbelief?

The framing of the question is awkward. Implying there's an ideal parent implies there's an ideal child, which in turn leads to a debate over which social mores and ethical tolerances are better or worse than others. That's a can of worms I'll leave the frogposters to shred themselves over.

But taking your question seriously, look at Maslow's hierarchy (and damn me for using his image all the way at the beginning....) So long as a parent is capable of reasonably providing these key elements, they are effective as a parent. Now, if the child grows up cognitively well adjusted, and physically fit, but with differing personal beliefs to those of the parent; to a counselor like myself, that's perfectly fine. It's actually worrying if a child is wholly identical in personality to their parent. That implies either a stunted emotional or cognitive development, usually through isolation, or emotional abuse like you see in cult-run households.

I hope that answers your question. If not, could you rephrase it?

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I can suspend my disbelief for that kind of silly stuff meant for laughs, but meeting twice in a row is pushing it. It doesn't help that the movie doesn't lampshade the absurdity of the situation, and throws a serious moment like this inmediately after.

Respect influences even when the person is unlikely to discover what you've done.
Fear only reaches as far as the end of the arm that holds it.

See this would mean something if Pete wasn't a complete shithead like many parents today, why is this movie so 90's yet so timeless at the same time?

Yes.
His son doesn't respect him.
His son fears him.

It may have some timeless themes, but it's still a really dated product of the 90s. No sugarcoating

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Dude even Goofy knew Pete was full of shit in that moment the way he dismisses Pete and walks away, seriously papa Goofy is some of the deepest shit Disney's ever done.

He thought Pete was lying to sabotage their relationship, yet still ends up checking the map inmediately after, thus finding out he was telling the truth

He was just the opposite extreme of Goofy. He was too controlling of PJ, but Goofy was too loose with Max. Given it was the 90s, Goofy never really gets shown why his style isn't necessarily right either.

In a manipulative way you have to admit, Pete was just wanting to be right and superior.

Do you have any kids?

Legit curious, did you also have a problem with Goofy and Max continuing to argue as their car was falling down the road and into fast waters? Or about the two seemingly getting the car itself to work again after all it went through?

It's about as nice as Pete could be while still being true to himself.

Not able to after chemotherapy. Have been happily married for about 13 years, and have been in family, correctional, and military/veteran counseling practice for around as long.

What's your degree? I'm year 2 in Master's social work so I'll be like you soon.

You're technically further into it than I am. I 'only' have a Bachelor's in psychology, but I picked up work immediately after graduating, and have made a pretty good career just through work experience and contacts in the area. I had been working with Baylor to work on my MSW program, but it got essentially scrapped with the recent events.

Kudos on you for your dedication to it; hopefully the MSW can make your jump into the field easier than mine. Word to the wise: if you can stomach it, go for correctional practice first. LOTS of experience with other Social Workers in varying fields who can help you get your foot in the door.

Why don't you strike kids again? I'm against it but I remember reading the rationale ages ago and now I don't remember the psychological reason.
Its something to do with how big the parent appears to the child, yeah? How even a light hit feels like a huge impact?

The electric chair?

The ending scene was pretty rushed, yeah. They just cut from the concert to Roxanne's house in a second. It would've been nice to see Powerline have a few lines. Heck, they didn't even show Max waving to Roxanne on stage like he promised to her

Thank you. Contacts really can shit on degrees though, my undergrad was psychology and part of the reason I went back to grad school so soon was not finding good work with the BA.

I'll definitely consider the corrections thing. As a male in social work, I don't know if that'll help or hurt me.

You also seem way more into the research component of psych than I was. If I'm right about that, you'd make a good clinical Ph.D.

It's because other methods of correcting negative behaviors don't have bleed-through effects of enforcing violence as a solution. You can get a child to stop doing something through more effective means. Elaborating I stated prior, taking away privileges or withholding attention through being sent to their room is preferable to striking, and the effects of it are longer lasting. I think plenty of kids who were paddled or struck as children regularly figured out ways of coping with the physical pain without actually coming to grips with the negative behavior itself. Striking children also has a very high likelihood of escalating as the child grows older and potentially tries to defend themselves.

As a male, you're actually VERY well suited for the work. At the prison I worked at, the split was more than 80% female in the department. What you'll find is that a lot of men in a correctional setting are very uncomfortable being open and honest to women about their thoughts and feelings. Especially those convicted of domestic or sexual assault. Find the right facility, and you'll be damn near indispensable.

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Think of how he puts those pants on.

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In terms of relationship to your father, respect means you're willing to call him on his wrongdoing because you care whether or not he does the right thing. If it was fear, you wouldn't say shit.

It teaches children that the only way to punish someone for their misbehaviour, is the use of violence. And the kid could then act that out towards his siblings, who then act it out towards their other siblings.

>And the kid could then act that out towards his siblings, who then act it out towards their other siblings.
and kids at school, future spouses, etc.

>Why don't you strike kids again?
Because then you wind up with the next generation of Zig Forums users HEY-OOO

If you're just afraid of someone you'll only behave the way they want you to when they're around. As soon as their back is turned, you'll do what you like.
If you respect someone, you genuinely want to do right by them, so even if their back is turned you're not as likely to do what they told you not to.
Not to mention fear doesn't last forever, especially in father some relationships. If your a dad and you use fear as your primary motivator, than you're son's going to stop giving a shit as soon as he's big and strong and you can't intimidate him anymore. A father with a son who respects him has a son for life, a father with a son that fears him only has a son until he can't hold onto the kid anymore.

>Striking children also has a very high likelihood of escalating as the child grows older and potentially tries to defend themselves.

Can confirm, once i got big enough to beat my step dads ass I beat him till he couldn't stand. At that point my mom never saw him as the man since he was nothing but a drunk who couldn't hold a simple life together.

i just want to say thank you. You are brilliant user

That's not individualism, that's self-centeredness.
>"where were you when I needed help?"
If you're so individualistic that you don't ask for help don't be surprised when none is given.

there is a huge fucking difference between temporarily obeying someone long enough to get away from them and carrying someone's ideals throughout your life with you because of how much of a positive impact they had on your life.

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Also that. Basically, the more you slap your kids for every misdemeanor they make, the higher the chance they see this as the way that one should act towards others who do misdemeanors (no matter how small)

pete is an underrated disney villain, i swear to god. it'd probably be hilarious if you put him in the same room as ratigan

>Goofy never really gets shown why his style isn't necessarily right either.
But he does. That's what the catharsis of the movie's emotional climax is all about.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your home life improved at some point.

D'aww. Thanks.

As he is? Yes. He was a strict father, very heavy handed. PJ respects him as an authority figure, not so much as a father. Things could have been different if they made a subtle change. Pete and PJ's relationship is a lot like mine with my father. Biggest difference? While my father was strict and sometimes just as heavy handed, I never told to do things alone. Pete is constantly ordering PJ around but seen relaxing. (At least as far as I can remember). My dad always made me work but was always there too. I ended up working beside him rather than underneath him. That small change in dynamic makes a huge difference. Might have been interesting to see a different yet valid parenting style, but have Goofy ultimately decide wasn't what he wanted to go with

Aside from that, was PJ really afraid that much? Honest question. I know he was afraid because he stole his dad's expensive camera and afterwards, but like, when he had done nothing wrong?

Not afraid, but pretty miserable except when he got to hang out with Max. Check out his face after his dad makes him knock over the last bowling pin and then psychs him out of a high five.

Huh. Don't remember that scene. Welp, a good excuse as any to rewatch the movie

Pete was loud and obnoxious but he didn't seem physically abusive and did care about his son.

Max Goof is a stud

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I'm starting to think that the only reason that beating kids is bad is because of how civilization currently operates. You have to hand your children off to innumerable influences, which they turn to after a beating. Thus, children becoming fags.

It's right after they meet up with the Goofs at the lake and a little before Bigfoot shows up.

Even if you were literally stranded in the middle of nowhere, beating your kids only makes it likely they'll beat you once they come of age.

You fool! That's what he's after!

Pete is a tough love kind of dad

Goofy coddles Max while Pete is a strict father. Strict parenting works every time plus Pete never once had to physically discipline PJ

Pete's jealous of Goofy's positive relationship with his son hence why he pushes to be more assertive like him. The Goofy Movie/Goof Troop is the most developed Pete has ever been as a character.

A good father wants their son to stand up for themselves

because his wife pegs him?

What kind of old folk's home you end up in.

>PJ and Max would be hovering around 40 now with kids as old as they were in Goof Troop/AGM.

If I could save time in a bottle...

Fear only lasts until you're out of sight, or your son beats your ass and moves out

We can't tell who was right at the end apparently. Looking at the Disney wiki the last thing Max does is brings a new girl home for Christmas. Both seem like failures but I assume PJ had dads company to fall back on. Plus if he continued with the french girl then he got the better girl in the end too.

Plus PJ hasn't canon hoverhanded.

Kinda similar to how in the Simpsons, Bart would be older than Marge was when the series started had they all aged normally for every year the show went on

what about the wife

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Do you think Piastol would grow up to be as hot as her mum or fat as her dad?

a healthy balance of the two, good figure but with a lot of meat

IT’S PETE TIME

Simpsons only works in the 70s to 90s timeline. Fuck the new age shit.

She balanced Pete out and kept his more obnoxious tendencies in check. But without her there Pete goes overboard. Be loves his kid, but lacks that self awareness.

Honestly, I feel like you couldn't tell Pete his parenting methods don't work. You'd have to show him how miserable PJ is when no one's looking. It's not that he doesn't care, he just doesn't recognize how it's affecting his kid.

At least, that's my personal head canon. I'd like it to be true[/ spoiler]

>that time he sang a verse of "Zippa-de-doo-dah" in House of Mouse
Fucking deepest lore

I feel like every time these threads come up people pretend that Pete was straight-up abusive towards his son as opposed to strict authoritarian; even in The Goofy Movie his parental attitude is played for laughs. He still clearly cared for and loved his family in Goof Troop.

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It's fine when used appropriately and with correct restraint.
Kids don't really understand logic and reasoning and cannot really imagine consequences for their action but pain is the universal teacher that even kids can understand and associate with consequences. The problem is that yelling at a kid for stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar or grounding can have the same impact as yelling or grounding a kid for running blindly out into traffic (i.e not enough). Sometimes it's truly in the kids best interest to escalate the consequences into terms that they'll understand.

If the show is canon to the film, Pete, generally, is incredibly self centered and self serving to the point of being oblivious or outright ignoring any sort of moral/social contract to do otherwise or how his actions can hurt others. He saw *nothing* wrong with stealing Max's video for that America's Funniest Home video show *and* going out of his way to credibly impersonate Goofy in order to collect the prize for himself, which is among the worst things he ever did in the show. Peg reading him the riot act didn't even phase him (much) or get him to return the prize. It took flat out faking a vision of a Bad End future where his wife's worked like a slave and his children were gunned down in a shoot out with the cops (no, really) to get him to repent.

In the island episode where he thought he was going to lose his wife to a bunch of Islanders he tried (and yet failed) to prove his love for his wife and ultimately revealed a vulnerability he would *never* have done unless he thought she was going to leave him. And to a much lesser degree he humiliated himself to some guy in a different episode (a handyman of some sort, IIRC) in order to spruce up a lakehouse Peg was selling or some shit because he could *not* bring himself to fail her.

So basically what you're saying is correct, but Pete would have to be under extreme duress and basically be forced to confront how miserable he's made life for his son in order for him to back off and even then, his overbearing nature tends to seep back in eventually (though that may just be status quo bullshit.)

Being physically abusive is definitely worse, and I don't see where Pete's breeding love with his son in AFM. Even if he's not flinching when Pete's angry: he's still treating his son as a resource he controls. Unless someone wants to advance the argument PJ loves doing not just chores but petty self-satisfying bullshit at the bellowing of his father.

I'm more interested in his reasons for telling Goofy about the map. Did he do it to drive a wedge between Max and Goofy or did he genuinely want his friend to know that he was getting bent over by his own son?

Based on his body language and facial expressions, i think its the former

Pete was unironically a better father who set a better example for his son.
>Max spends all of Goofy Movie simping for one girl that he breaks up with before the next movie
>PJ gets a sexy beatnik gf his first week of college without even trying

Okay, hear me out on this one. My dad was raised 7th Day Adventist and he got the shit beat out of him on the daily. Because of this, he hates my grandparents. As such, my dad raised my brother and I without beatings as a regular punishment. However, I have been struck a handful of times and I can confirm, looking back, that I was being a real little shit. And it's knowing that I pushed my parents THAT far that changed my behavior.

Maybe it's about minimizing striking to the absolute minimum. Like, worst case scenario. It really sticks when it's a rare occurrence.

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Goofy got a sexy disco queen gf his first week of college without even trying. Max has only himself to blame.

It means once once the son who hate his father gets a clear upper hand he will get you. My old man was a sack of shit but when I turned 18 and saw a chance I kicked his ass to a pulp. Also I put my pubes in his food all the time

WTF is that screen cap from? I want to go watch Ballerina Gator now.

...But seriously, while I don't condone striking a child as a regular form of discipline, the *intent* of using physical punishment should only be reserved when when a child has done something completely reprehensible out of ignorance or something so incredibly dangerous. Slapping a child who was playing with a loaded gun kinda scenario, to drive home just how utterly *wrong* their behavior was.

I'm sure the Psyanon in this thread could tell me this is still not the thing to do, and I'm not fighting hard for this but as a rare, extreme measure I can see it kinda being a last resort of last resorts.

You are welcome Psyanon. You sound like a chill person. Hope you analyze more cartoons and wish the best for you.

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Yeah. That being said, I believe that he did care about Goofy's well being as a parent.
>"Don't let him fool you with that buddy-buddy act now. Under your thumb."

I feel like Pete might have some insecurities about his own parenting (no matter how confident he tries to come off as) and wanted to make it clear to Goofy that things were going wrong between him and Max. It most likely served just to reassure Pete that his parenting methods with PJ were sound after all by comparison.

On one hand, I definitely blame Status Quo bullshit. On the other hand what the fuck I don't remember anything about this show apparently

my dad beat me and my mother was neglectful, I also moved every year between their houses and the isolation from not being able to develop a longstanding friend circle kind of fucked me up.

Is there any hope for me? Or am I just fucked for the rest of my shitty life?

>Peg reading him the riot act didn't even phase him (much) or get him to return the prize. It took flat out faking a vision of a Bad End future where his wife's worked like a slave and his children were gunned down in a shoot out with the cops (no, really) to get him to repent.
IS there a clip somewhere of this?

>to prove his love for his wife and ultimately revealed a vulnerability he would *never* have done unless he thought she was going to leave him.
What was it?

It was all a staged act by the other characters, regarding the first. Pete was shown a "future" were Max beat him at his own deception game and took over the car dealership (and murdered Pete, but they didn't say this openly IIRC) and his kids likewise tried to imitate Pete's immorality and became outright criminals who the cops "gunned down" with PJ's last words involving how he was just trying to be like his dad. Pete did not take this well.

And regarding the island episode,the premise was after Pete royally fucked up his wedding anniversary the cast got stuck on a tropical island. Peg pretended not to recognize Pete after they had gotten separated and he found her in a village of a bunch of dudes worshiping the ground she walked on. She kept acting like she didn't recognize him. Pete kept failing to..I don't know get rare flowers from a top of a mountain or other incredibly difficult fetch quests and Peg kept insisting that the man she married long ago would have gone to great lengths to actually get any of the shit she requested. He kept failing and she was all "Oh you couldn't get it? I guess you weren't really the Pete I married." This fucking *destroyed* him. Thinking he was going to lose her he broke down crying and gave her (and the "real" Pete that Peg chose over him who was an actor--the entire incident was once again an elaborate staged act) a locket from when they were engaged he'd kept on his person the entire time with a picture of them inside and to Peg this was significant enough for her to drop the ruse and... well some other shit happened involving a volcano but it ended with Pete being taken back.

Holy shit, thats kinda touching

The fact that you're seeking help, if only through asking at this point, is a sign that you can still socialize. In a way, it's oddly better that neither of your parents were emotional anchors for you in this unfortunate situation. Had one of them been more available, it could have led to overattachment to them, which would have had very detrimental effects upon having to gain independence or, worse yet, losing them through illness or accident.

In having only yourself to rely on, you did what a lot of people have had to do. Raise themselves. I don't know you, user. I don't know your moral compass, what you think of other people in general, or if you even regularly bathe, but I'm going to go out on a limb, considering your curiosity, and say that you're probably willing, maybe even wanting, to be around other people.

My recommendation for 'shut-in' people trying to open themselves up is to do 'community service'. Work for a few nights at a food bank, shelter, etc. I'm not a person of faith, but for those who are, they often have community outreach programs if your local government or other nonprofits aren't as active. This puts you into results-driven contact with other people. Even if it's not something that has you actively communicating with people, it will teach you how to rely on and be relied upon by others, as well as creating a positive reputation for yourself in your local community.

Reading self-help books and organizing your personal space is all well and good, but the best thing to determining if you're interested in socializing is by actually leaving your home and putting yourself in a 'neutral' situation. One that's neither hostile, nor coddling.

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What episode was that? With Pete's breakdown

The two I've mentioned are Wrecks, Lies and Videotapes (aka Pete Steals the vacation scenario) and Peg o' the Jungle, which has his breakdown at the end.

Thanks user! Really appreciate you

th-thanks. I'm not completely autistic and shut-in. I used to be, then I lost 150lbs in like 20 months and joined the Navy.
Got stationed in Okinawa, got deployed, a combination of childhood trauma, my body being an absolute mess (extremely scoliosed and unbalanced and skinnyfat and fucked up thanks to being megaobese from the age of like 5), and being expected to perform like an actual man kinda fucked me up. I failed out and got out at the 3 year mark instead of 4 (may 4th would've been my 4 year mark), and now I'm going to school on the gi bill.
I can talk to people and was even -relatively- well-liked in the Navy, despite the fact that I was always isolating myself at every opportunity (free time) because of a combination of seething rage at the normies, shame at being a physically fucked-up freak who never should have got in in the first place, and fear of rejection.

But I have my own apartment now at least, I'm finally out of both of my parents lives. So I've got that going for me. Which is nice.

No problem. Both are definitely some of the more memorable episodes. I don't think Disney can even make shit like this any more.

Fear only encourages dishonesty. If they appear to be behaved and respectful because you incite fear, it's because you've trained them only to keep from setting you off. They won't do what you want, they'll only focus on pacifying you. They won't obey the rules when they can lie instead.

The rule is that parenting like that doesn't teach kids to behave, it teaches them to not get caught. If the kids respected the parent they'd behave without being told to.

Princess Tutu.

PJ borrowing his dad's camera among other things is a sign he didn't respect his dad. Kids with overly strict parents don't learn respect, they just learn to fake it, to not set them off, to constantly worry and fret about being caught but respect would mean not borrowing a camera or having enough trust between them that he could ask to borrow it.

That helps. And now you're in a position where you have the social distancing (no pun intended) from them that will help you create your own social circles without their interference. You also seem to understand that you weren't in a good physical condition and made an effort to correct that. Hopefully you retain that self-maintaining mindset.

But I will say again that it's important for you to socialize off screen. Being good at talking to people on a text board is well and good, but it will never replace interaction with flesh and blood people. Continue making the efforts you're clearly in the right mindset to make. You'll be rewarded for consistency.

The principle still applies. Clearly a child in the home playing with a loaded gun isn't the child's fault. That's the fault of irresponsible and negligent gun owning parents. (I own a firearm, so let's not go down that rabbit trail). If a parent who has a firearm hasn't informed the child of its existence, the nature of what it's capable of, and the finality and wrongness of misusing it, then the only person deserving a slap is the parent. A child isn't an adult with a debased moral code or lust for thrill seeking behavior. A child is a child whose cognitive processes aren't developed. It's incumbent on the person with the fully-developed faculties in the home to make the safety-minded decisions, both in terms of physical security and ensuring that the child is aware and respectful of the dangers.

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i got punished alot as a kid but my parents hit me 3 times (on the butt with a belt) but every time it was preceded and followed by explaining why it was happening and not to do it again
they were for
>hitting a girl
>playing in the street
>breaking my brother's tv after being told not to touch it on the night my dad was having a watch party for the tyson v holyfield fight and made them miss the part where tyson bit his ear.

trips confirms your advice. I actually gained 100lbs back due to being a depressed cunt. sitting at 300lbs, but more in shape than the last time I was 300. if that makes sense. It's something. But I was losing weight for a bit before covid and hopefully Ill get back to it when we get the all clear.

thanks for the ear my duder

When I was 15, my dad slapped me in the face after he accused me of tripping my sister, because I defended myself. He slapped me, because I defended myself and refused to take blame for something I didn't do.

It was the last straw and the start of me and my dad really distancing from each other.

>navy fails out a full year before contract is out
>full honors
>marine fails out a month before his contract is out and he gets a general
i fucked up believing that semper fi shit

Why did Pete hate Max?

Respect is won through mutual admiration of one another. If you have to bully it out of someone it's not respect, it's just fear or deference.

rah. sorry to hear that user, I hope you're doing ok nowadays at least.

The people I know with bad parents like that always seem to seethe at normies the most. Maybe what they seethe at are aspects of their parents they see in specific people, but it seems they assume too much and care too much about the actions and attitudes of people like that and isolate from them just like they did from their parents.

I'm not a professional and can't give advice like that one user, but this might be something to consider when evaluating others. Often the problems are just our assumptions based of very superficial things.

I'm a self isolating introvert who could live in an actual cave in the mountains for 5 years and not go crazy from being alone. But I learned to socialize and get along with just about everyone because a dumb convenience store job I had was in an odd location that made it the sinkhole everyone flowed into after work, parties, schools, etc. and people treated me like a bartender they needed to unload their troubles on.

It kinda shittens up the relationship. It’s why the older generation dumped their parents into retirement homes and never visited or called

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And your parents got it half-right by explaining why you were being punished, which is more than many parents who use corporal punishment. But nobody ever said that every child who was subjected to physical violence for childhood behavioral problems would necessarily become violent or abusive themselves. The trends, however, are fully documented and, as a whole, it has been proven that the forms of punishment I've brought up earlier make for, on average, better adjusted and happier people.

People can bounce back from all kinds of trauma. From the nearly-negligible form that you've described, to experiences you can't post on a blue board. Some people don't, and live their lives swallowed up by anxiety, depression, or other ill results.

Trust me, there are times where it would be LOVELY if the world worked like that one anecdote we know about. Unfortunately, the real world is more complicated.

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i just want to go to back school. i'm deaf, and my hip is fucked up and i'm living at home. it takes 2 hours one way to get to the VA from my place and i wake up everyday wishing i was dead but at least i can complain on Zig Forums every once in a while about this shit and get it off my chest.

For me a child shouldn't be punished if they do something and they don't know they shouldn't do it, that lies with the parent telling the child not to do it and why. Many parents fall into the pothole of "don't do this because I said so" and then never explain why, that just makes the child curious as to why and do it anyway. For me, he only time spanking should be okay is if they do something they know they're not supposed to do and do it anyway, like something really stupid and dangerous that could cost them their life.

You can teach that in other ways
I was taught not to fear authority. I approach superiors as if they are equals. There's no fear; I usually assume we want the same thing. If we don't, then we go our separate ways. If somebody makes unreasonable demands, I won't take them. I'll treat everyone just the same, and assume they'll do the same for me. No bias, no fear. Just respect. It doesn't make me any more vulnerable to tyrants

Latinamerican user here:
When I was little and saw the series and the movie, I always thought PJ's name was "Pejota" because they would say the initials in Spanish.
It wasn't until years later that my older cousin would explain to me PJ stands for "Pete Junior".

I know it has nothing to do with the discussion, but wanted to share.

I actually never realized that was why. I've seen a lot of characters on tv with similar initial names (PJ, TJ, BJ) and even a few where they'd have an episode devoted to someone trying to figure out what it stood for. I thought it was just a common nickname or way of abbreviating something or a reference to someone else.

Never guess it actually stood for something in this movie.

lel same

Respect should be earned. Pete simply used force and threats of same.

I think we have to agree to disagree on that one. PJ was talked in to it by Max ( who also didn't respect his dad for the exact opposite reasons). I'll admit that maybe I've just been 'lucky' in the sense that the kids I've seen with strict parents tend to obey them more until acted on by an outside source and even then. Kids do dumb things. They act out. Unless you're saying that every kid that disobeys they'r parents or breaks rules doesn't respect their parents

my personal perspective on corporeal punishment is that it's never a good thing, but sometimes it's literally the only way to get a kid to stop doing something they shouldn't be doing, cause kids can be ridiculously stubborn sometimes

>My recommendation for 'shut-in' people trying to open themselves up is to do 'community service'. Work for a few nights at a food bank, shelter, etc. I'm not a person of faith, but for those who are, they often have community outreach programs if your local government or other nonprofits aren't as active. This puts you into results-driven contact with other people. Even if it's not something that has you actively communicating with people, it will teach you how to rely on and be relied upon by others, as well as creating a positive reputation for yourself in your local community.
not that user, but man am I heavily hesitant about doing volunteer work, I think my ability to do work for people outside of family or close friends without some form of direct compensation got short circuited by this really shitty unpaid internship program I was forced into doing after I graduated High School(that the only reason I didn't immediately leave the moment I turned 18 was because they were literally holding my High School Diploma hostage), basically had a full year of my life wasted(and I blame it heavily on my near complete inability to either find work or do school)

While I can sympathize, you need to make peace with the fact that that's not something that's inherently wrong with volunteerism, it was a problem with your educational system. Admittedly, I've never heard of that kind of situation before, so I can't make heads or tails about the results and consequences, but can you at least try to 'detox' yourself from that mindset? Maybe make an effort to spend one day of a weekend a month to do some charitable work? Of course, I offer this as a path for people trying to re-learn socializing skills. If this isn't a problem for you...well, I'd still recommend those earlier suggestions just as a way of healing from that experience by destigmatizing good works.

As for the first part, I'm going to have to disagree. Let's take the situation of a child playing in traffic. You've told them not to, but a few minutes later, you see them dancing in the middle of it while a truck's coming. Of course you'll need to use some force to get them out of the road and save their life. But the only thing you're getting across by striking them afterward is that you're there to stop them from having fun.

What's best to do instead is either move yourself so that you're between them and the road so they'll have to get past you if they want to try it again, or, if it looks like they're going to try again, stop the activity completely and not return until the child shows genuine remorse for being disobedient as well as showing respect for something that could get them killed, in the same manner as the gun example from earlier.

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I'll be honest I was not expecting this caliber of posts from a Goofy Movie thread on Zig Forums

It's always in the place you least expect it

welcome to therapy, anons

fucking THIS. my dad fucking struck fear into me because he had this theory that "fear = respect" it's complete bullshit.now i just have nightmares about the guy and random flashbacks that make me shiver. i wish i could go back and prevent myself from ever moving in with him.

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If that one embers squad guy held a gun to your head you would probably be afraid, but no way you would respect the dude

anyone got that porn comic where max and PJ fuck pete's wife?

Recently I tripped myself out when I realized that since I had graduated high school enough time had elapsed for a first-grader to have gone through the same amount of schooling.

It’s weird how a thread about Goofy Movie actually made me look in retrospect about growing up.
My dad was a deadbeat, and my stepfather (who also adopted me) was the very definition of this thread. I never actually did anything he asked out of respect for him or to make him happy/proud, I was just always afraid of him.
Then my mom remarried when I was about 17, and while I was older, I noticed that even 11 years on, I simply do things for him because he did a lot for me and was a big hand in me learning how to come out of my box and face life like a man. It’s an enormously different feeling between fearing someone and respecting them.
Then my mother was a bizarre case. I feared her growing up too, but then over time grew respect for what she went through just to keep a roof over my head and the fact that she was the only consistent parent in my life the whole way through. Now it’s strange talking to her because it’s like talking to a different person, because that “mother” shell melted away and we talk like people should.

Because Max wasn’t anything like his son. Pete wants discipline and obedience, which Max is the opposite of. He sees it and Goofy’s parenting as weakness because it isn’t structured.

This is a good thread.

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all i know is I 2 I fucking slaps.

Goof Troop threads are generally pretty nice and comfy, even the waifuing feels a tad more high-brow than usual

>tfw you'll never get past orange
Feels bad man

>It’s weird how a thread about Goofy Movie actually made me look in retrospect about growing up.
Same, I grew up in a caring household, but if I could nitpick on my upbringing it would be that most of my parenting amounted to long lists of "don't do this, do that" and whenever I asked why should I do it like that the response was usually "don't make this complicated, just do it the way we tell you", which in turn made me frustrated enough to passively resist simple tips and tricks that probably would've made my life growing up a little easier
I think what I missed in my ubringing was getting to sit down with my parents and properly and have a back and forth talk about why things are like they are and how I was doing, much like we do now that I'm over for visits as an adult

My parents utilized guilt and shame a bit too much for my tastes; I also don't think you need to actually fucking *scream* at a child--who was clinically proven to have attention deficit problems-- when they have trouble keeping their goddamn room clean or are unable to perform well in jr. high physics classes to the point of tears.

I mean, at least they -tried- to do right by me when the chips were down; I once had a co-worker at a day job from some ultra religious family (i don't know what denomination--either Pentecostal or Jesuit if I had to guess) who walked out on his family literally on his 18th birthday because of how terribly controlling they were and afterward the dude's dad acts like he doesn't have a son. (This apparently also happened with his eldest son who despite being a military vet, married someone outside of the religion and now this dad doesn't talk to either of his boys.)

If you fear someone you'll disobey them the second you're not under their direct surveillance.
If you respect someone you'll consider their wishes even when you know they're not looking.

It's like with spanking, all studies done show that corporeal punishment leads to children that act worse in every aspect of their lives, do worse in school, more likely to become criminals, more likely to become substance abusers, more likely to be violent generally. But dumbshit parents think that because the kid bows and scrapes when in their immediate presence that the spanking 'worked'. The only thing fear accomplishes is causing children to 'hide' bad behavior.

Also consider that the child will one day become an adult and if you've terrorized them their entire childhood they're not exactly likely to want to take care of you in your dotage.

Are you jewish?

There's legitimately no defensible argument for striking a child, more 70 year of study unambiguously shows that it is consistently associated with negative behaviors on the part of children and, perhaps most damningly, using spanking as a punishment is consistent with NEGATIVE moral internalization, meaning that if you spank are child as a punishment they are literally less likely to understand why the thing they were punished for was wrong.

Spanking being a bad parenting practice is pretty much as close to a stone cold fact as any finding of psychological science can get.

psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201802/the-spanking-debate-is-over

Nope. Welsh by lineage, but my grandfather is Oklahoman Cherokee. It's very apparent in my uncles, but I look like any generic white guy and don't make a big deal about it.

Wait sec...IS THAT A RECUSANT SIGIL?!

I got the belt from my dad and my hand whipped by my mom. Don't fear them and I love them both, please don't hit your kids.

Behave yourself, Zig Forums.