Superman 2000

>that time Morrison, Millar, Peyer & Waid pitched the "New Superman"
Anybody remember it? Here, for those who don't: sites.google.com/site/deepspacetransmissions/Resources/superman-2000-proposal
>inb4 archive
Too bored, bite me.
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Anyhow, now that that's out of the way, what's your opinion on it years later? Anything you like? Anything you'd change? Do you agree with their view of Superman and what a Superman book should be? If you were in charge, what would be your pitch for a "Modern Superman" (either "now" or back at the dawn of the new Millenium).

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I thought about making this exact same thread.

Anyhow, I fucking LOVE just about all of it. I really think that DC really missed out on something that could've been one of the most defining runs on the character. 3/4ths of them either went on to write definitive Superman stories or already wrote one anyhow.

In particular, I really like the stuff with the villains. Lex, Bizarro, Mxy, Metallo, and the Prankster are all great. The Mxy idea in particular is probably the best way to handle Mxy, in my opinion, it really could've been a great way to challenge Superman's morality. And it would've been really cool to see someone actually use Solaris again.

>If you were in charge, what would be your pitch for a "Modern Superman
Probably something similar, but incorporating the marriage and the Super-Son. But also Supergirl, Kon, Steel, and the notion of 'Team Superman' in general.

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It would have all fallen apart anyway, those are 4 strong personalities (well, Peyer seems chill, but the other 3) and the Morrison/Millar fracture was on its way by then and Waid would have fallen out with DC over some bullshit anyway. Morrison is willing to play the company man to get to keep playing with their toys. It was always destined to fail.

The correct time for a total overhaul in the Superman books honestly was right after Reign of Supermen. The diamond cover/weekly style of Superman publishing had hit its high water mark and they spent the rest of the 90s trying and failing to recapture that juice with mostly the same tired creators. .

Anytime anybody romanticizes what coulda been with the Waid/Peyer books, remember they did a month-long storyline in the main books around 1997 and it was utter trash. Not a great job audition. Millar had a fantastic run of Superman Adventures and Morrison got to do All-Star. We should be glad we got those masterpieces rather than wish that we saw them get dragged down by crossovers and continuity politics.

>, remember they did a month-long storyline in the main books around 1997 and it was utter trash.
Details?

I like alot about it. Don't quite get the point of the stupid love triangle shit.

It was called "Identity Crisis" and it ran for a month in the diamond titles to give the regular creators a break and I just remember it having some Curt Swan art and Superman gets mind-swapped with a kid in a group home who already thinks he is Superman. I guess it's decent enough for a fill-in but reading it didn't make me go "oh, man, these guys have a bold vision for Superman and I want to see more of it ASAP."

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Morrison is the worst Superman writer of those four.

> Further to this, it’s important to keep in mind the Superman/Christ parallels WITHOUT being obvious and heavy-handed about them.
This

>His curiosity and kindness are childlike in their purity but he should also be frighteningly quick and clever. The combination of contradictory qualities adds to his slightly removed air. The eyes go vague when he looks at your electrical field for a second and gets the idea for an oscillating defensive forcefield based on the rhythms of your pulse rate. Sometimes he seems not all here, but it’s only because he’s much more here than we can sensibly hope to be.
I love this. I want this in a comic.

I love Tom Peyer but I'd like to know what Superman comics of his you think are better than All-Star.

They wanted to kill the Kents, because they disliked the idea of them being a constant presence in Superman's lives, and wanted to undo the marriage, because some of them felt that Lois was akin to a monkey when compared to Superman. So no, it wouldn't be good.

Morrison eventually got his wish during the New 52 reboot and i got to say that his Action Comics didn't amount to much.

The Morrison/Millar fracture happened I think partly because Millar was getting on his way to being a bigger name after he did Authority.

Would he do Authority if he had gotten the Superman gig? The intention was the Superman 2000 comics would start in January 2000, so they'd be working on it in 1999, Millar would have to juggle that and Superman Adventures.

Also if Superman 2000 was a success then Waid, Morrison, Millar, and Peyer wouldn't have left DC. Ultimate X-Men would be written by someone else, and that 616 X-Men revamp would also be done by someone else. Maybe Loeb, since he wouldn't be writing Superman in this timeline? Waid wouldn't have gone to Crossgen.

If Millar didn't do Authority then he might never get out of Morrison's shadow. If he does, then he might've had a chance, but he would miss the boat for the early part of the Quesada era. Would Ultimates even be made? Or Civil War?

>because some of them felt that Lois was akin to a monkey when compared to Superman. So no, it wouldn't be good.

By some you mean Millar, cause he was the only one of the four who thought that.

The pitch only killed off Pa Kent, which Morrison did do for All Star Superman. I don't know if killing both parents off for New 52 was his idea or editorial's, or (assuming it's his idea) a way for him to cockblock Millar (who had that elaborate pitch where he said he'd make sure to kill of the Kents), but someone could try to find out.

Damn that costume looks good.

I'm super greatful we got stuff like All Star Superman, Birthright, Red Son etc...
But i still feel we missed something from these writers,

Had this been a real thing, we could've had everything.

I think it would've created a different mainstream comics timeline. Let's say those four write Superman for at least a year. That means Jeph Loeb and Joe Kelly might be doing other things instead. Millar misses the boat on Ultimate X-Men and doesn't shape them, who would've been writing it instead? In fact, if Loeb wasn't writing Superman, would he still even be at DC? If not he might be writing Ultimate X-Men or New X-Men instead. No Loeb on Superman also means no Our Worlds At War event, also possibly means he might not have done Superman/Batman.

>then Waid, Morrison, Millar, and Peyer wouldn't have left DC
Waid had a huge beef with dan didio and some other execs, I doubt he would have stayed if Dan Didio became EiC anyway

You guys really think the fans would have accepted them retconning the marriage away?

Didio wouldn't have come in to DC until 2002. Waid left DC in 2000 because he was pissed off about how the Superman 2000 pitch got thrown out. If the pitch went through Waid would be at DC for at least a year or two.

If they had done the marriage away i feel that DC in this new timeline would have jumped at the chance of making the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing a reality back then, since even with the marriage still going the comics at the time was still teasing the creepy Superman/Lois Lane/Wonder Woman love triangle out throughout the Our Worlds at War cross-over event.

I wouldn't have. But on the other hand, at the time the marriage was only four years in (they got married in like November 1996 or something like that), and people forget that fans were really down on a lot of the Superman books during that four year period. There was the electric blue Superman right after the marriage, and then I remembered people complaining about the books around 1999. This would've been the time that they could've done it and gotten away with it.

That said there were two pitches, one where they erased the marriage and one where they didn't. Going by things Waid, Morrison, and Millar said, they had arguments over it because they realized that in the marriage erasing one, it would've meant the villains won.

I dunno man, I think Superman sort of deserves to have both Lois and WW wanting his Superseed, he's the kind of dude all chicks should/would want a piece of but can't because Supes is a one woman faithful type of guy.

I will always be in support of a harem anime with a young Clark Kent as protagonist. Age the other girls up or down in whatever way works best, but it would definitely make for a fun series.

Too bad Wonder Woman is always thrown under the bus character-wise to make Superman look better when shit like that happens.

Superman is too homely for any of that. Batman's the bad boy all the girl cream themselves for. It's like the difference between Cyclops and Wolverine.

>Superman is too homely for any of that.

Really? Because they confirmed an Earth where Superman married Lois and Lana, and there was that Superman/Wonder Woman Elseworlds by Claremont where Lois as Wonder Woman and Lana as Mythological Oracle move in with Superman on the moon. I can't remember a Batman story doing that.

the difference between cyclops and wolverine is about a foot of height

That's because most of DC writers are Superman fanboys. Remember, Doomsday Clocks established that Superman is the center of everything and every universe must have its own Superman even if that limits the fuck out of the setting. Hell, the whole Superman/Wonder Woman pairing is a weak attempt to make Superman come off as manlier and cooler because DC feels that the Clark Kent/Superman/Lois Lane love triangle make Superman out to be seen as a simp and a loser.

What good Superman comics has Mark Waid even written?

>What good comics has Mark Waid even written?
FTFY

Not in the actual Superman/Wonder Woman story, where she beats up both Zod and Faora alone

Some will say Kingdom Come and Birthright, but goddamn do i hate Kingdom Come with a burning passion.