How can anything exist outside of the plan of an omnipotent being?

How can anything exist outside of the plan of an omnipotent being?

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By creating chaos that by its design cannot be predicted.

by wanting it hard enough

God doesn't plan anything. He purposes. Plans can fall apart. Purposes will always be fulfilled given enough time and resources, and God has both in spades.

this, unless you want to start talking about arguments like "can god make a rock so heavy he can't lift it" or "can god understand anything even formless chaos", and there's no real answer to those questions that isn't conjecture or pure mental gymnastics

Why would he need either time or resources? He’s god.

He doesn't plan, he steers.

pretty sure the central theme of the book was about whether or not Lucifer was playing right into God's hand by doing everything he did, even at the end it's heavily implied God set it all up, save that he didn't know what choice Lucifer was going to make at the end and did an experiment with him

Most comic book writers are not very good theologians and most of them do not like Christianity anyway. Fuck, most comic book writers are even poor students of the LITERATURE that surrounds Christianity. Most of them have read a few scraps of passages from Paradise Lost and that's it. Or they read a little of Dante's Inferno one time.

It would actually be really interesting, for a change, to get a comic that deals with Christian conceptions of the broader cosmos written by someone who knows what they're fucking talking about. Somebody who'd bothered to study theology and the commentaries of various saints and Church Fathers. That would probably be a nice change of pace, actually.

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The long answer is Carey is an "atheist with agnostic tendencies" and approaches the question of God from a literary perspective, specifically Paradise Lost, not a theological one (which is why the ending of Lucifer uses the author and his work as an allegory for God and His creation.) Taking that into account he was most likely drawing a parallel to an author's work sometimes altering as it was being written from the original plan of said author, that the work itself was a reciprocal part of it's own creation would translate to there being a creative space that was outside of the plan but still accounted for in the planning of the creation process.
The short answer is God isn't omnipotent as Carey presents Him and Lucifer is 100% right.

nah lets put another atheist who ends up making god himself on a religious book.

You guys are all fucking idiots. It’s THE AUTHOR. The prescence isn’t THE AUTHOR, he’s “the creator” of DC.

>Why would he need either time or resources? He’s god.
Omnipotence requires wanting

Because Omnipotent is not Omniscience.

It's not possible to verify that statement objectively.

What a pretentious comment, the truth is most theologists can't even agree on fucking anything on the bible and this comic is quite accurate on the perception that God CAN have things outside his way.

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stupid samefag

a realistic/reliable portrayal of the judeo-christian god in fiction can never be achieved because at some point you inevitably reach a moment when questions about his/her/it's personality or abilities can only be answered with a vague "there's no way we can possibly fathom or understand", which leads to sheer guesswork that can't be verified or disproven

You could always just have Jesus show up, his personality is pretty clearly defined in the Bible.

even that's risky, since there will be people that argue that

a) Jesus is distinctly seperate from God
b) Jesus is God
c) Jesus is both distinctly seperate from God, and at the same time IS God

I'm making no assumptions about where you stand on this, but I think you can admit that there are people out there that will argue up and down for all three positions

Because in the Sandman world the reality can change drastically based on how sentient beings dream and imagine the reality could be. Before Yahweh was the top dude, there were other gods. And before those Gods the world was ruled by giant cats, until humanity collectively dreamed of this world and made it into reality.

That depends more on which religious sect you're asking. Christianity refers to Father, Son and Holy Spirit as separate entities.

Absolutely, that's exactly what I mean. There's no way you can get a consistent representation of God in any fictional medium, because something about it will conflict with someone's beliefs, and they'll happily pop up to point out everything inaccurate about it from their perspective.

there is no such thing as an omnipotent being .

The Marvel Universe

There is also different levels of omnipotent like there are different levels of infinity. Any writer that claims otherwise is nothing but a hack.

how can you have different levels of "the power to do anything"?

how can you have different levels of "infinite"?

IT'S META DON'T YOU GET IT SO DEEP

of course there is

>of course there is

How can one verify this?

youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw

In math, there are several different infinities and not all infinities are equal.

Look at omnipotence paradox.

FUCK YOUR MATH

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Can you point me somewhere I can reference and read up on this? Is there a term for this?

like , which I'm looking at now, found a wikipedia link immediately

Logic.

ok, been going over this and I still maintain my assertion that it is impossible to portray God in any consistent manner, because people can't even decide what omnipotent means

someone could argue that omnipotent means one thing and be backed up by scripture, and someone else could claim it means something else based on scripture, and someone else could claim that God's omnipotence is so far reaching that it can't possibly be explained or understand by human minds

again, I don't know where you fall on this, but I think you can agree that there are definitely people out there today that will fall all across the spectrum on this, and therefore there's no way one can consistently portray God in a way that makes sense to everyone. interesting link tho

Can you expand on this? What logical steps can one take to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that an omnipotent being can exist?