He killed infinitillions

No you fucking obsessed faggot. Holy shit you're pathetic, and your fetish is garbage. God you make this board shittier by the day with your faggotry

Grail's problem is that her first appearance was her beating the JL and being edgy about it. A character needs to earn being able to pull it off and she didn't. Just have her be some kind of teen Darkseid and have her deal with the teen heroes and sidekicks.

They are different premises, Perpetua goal is to convert the multiverse not destroy plus all his actions were still caused by his own will.

user you know how it goes; new guy/gal shows up, we have to put on a big show to validate their existence and thus set the tone of "yeah this person is a threat". Being a biological offspring of Darkseid is stupid (because he's done have children), but I can at least get behind the "Anti/New God Wonder Woman" thing.
Yeah no, she's trash, and her existence undermines everything Anti-Monitor was

And it never works. Grail should be doing guerrilla style combat on the Avengers. Picking them off one by one and working her way up. Have her take some hits and barely manage wins. Then the heroes band together and beat her just as Darkseid and Antimonitor start throwing down and the rest of the event plays out the same. But at this point it doesn't matter. She can still be fixed. Or she can be shoved into a bottle alongside Nubo.

Looking back weirdly enough, Grail kind of seemed set up to have a backstory that might, MIGHT have earned that track record that for whatever reason Johns decided to abrely touch on in Darkseid War proper. Let's see, she's 3000 years old and raised by her mom who's some sort of super amazon assassin and who presumably taught her the plot device amazon rituals which do shit like yeet a Flash from another universe over that no other amazon has ever demonstrated. Her mom's apparently killed Echidna, tamed a griffin, fought in WW1 and been operating in America long enough to have a Batcave-style lair full of trophies and weapons in there. Grail herself was apparently killing a fair number of mythologyical figures like the blind witches, SOMEHOW tracked down the Anti-Monitor without dying and seems to know who Kalibak and Mr. Miracle are.

There was room to write a longass training arc to justify her that Johns should've slotted in before Darkseid War kicked off. At the very least, we would've had more memes to laugh about because the larger problem is she inexplicably wears her hair and behaves like an edgy teenager while being about as old as Diana.

I'm not debating perpetua being good or not, the fact is that Anti Monitor still went rogue when he tried to destroy everything a Coie, he's his own man unlike Thanos or Bane at TDK rises

I mean, it kind of is undermined when Perpetua's DOES have a canon knowledge of and reaction to COIE, and it's "I'm pride of you! Pls stop fighting your mom and come back to me!"

He still killed infinitillions on his own volition though

Right I'm just clarifying that Grail isn't exactly a unique case in this circumstance, a symptom rather than a cause if you will. I think part of the issue is pacing and reader patience. We forget that these are monthly installments, piecemeal storytelling, and I can't exactly blame a comic writer trying to get things moving trying to establish what the threat is. But I totally understand your perspective and criticism, and I actually agree. It's kind of a lose/lose scenario when you think about it.
It doesn't help either that New 52 Donna Troy was a rogue Amazon either.

It's kind of amazing how Diana's own continuity is more screwed up than Donna's after the New 52, simply because DC's incoherent mess of a writing room decided to completely scrap the Azz continuity as FAKE MEMORIES and never even bothered to explain why the gods mindfucked Diana. Like shit, she literally met HERA recently and didn't bother to bring it up or ask for answers blatantly because DC wants to brush oevr it as quickly as possible.

So did star butterfly, your point.

And then it gets revealed that she didn’t actually exist and was just an illusion by a future version of TBWL

I actually liked Azz's Wonder Woman too. Sure it didn't really utilize her rogues or her normal supporting cast, but Diana was still a very compassionate and understanding hero trying to solve her family issues the best way she could instead of the old ways they were used to. It was also a stark contrast to her characterization in the Justice League book at the time, which was the version of Diana everyone naturally hated and most just assumed Azz's was the same.

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Stop talking about Grail in my Anti-Monitor thread.

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It's extremely annoying that the solo which replaced it doesn't seem to know what to make of Diana's values system, so she alternatively comes across as compassionate to the point of suicidal stupidity (literally helping Cheetah evade the law) and naively preachy (criticising Jason for HIDING FROM HERA which is an entirely valid response to anyone with passing knowledge about Hera's responses to Zeus bastards, telling off GOD HIMSELF recently at the pearly gates) around the most derangedly irredeemable villains possible. Like shit who has she given up on redeeming 100%, Darkseid? That's about all I can think of.

It gets really bad when Diana seems to understand the Amazon mentality worse than Grail when she seems to do nothing but run into shitty awful amazons, whereas literally half the tribe is STILL running away with Grail at the moment just because she beat up Hippolyta offscreen.

We're going to talk about ALL the shitty DC villains in one sitting, and that's final. Really what is there even to talk about Monty as a character? He was a Big Bad Robot Man who existed to Blow Up All The Things and Snyder's insane attempts to give him nuance and characterisation have only been for the worse. No seriously, what is there to talk about the Anti-Monitor? He's the textbook definition of an excuse plot.

You know Metron is still dead. Think about that.

he btfo the spectre

Yes.
Yes he is.
And the funny thing is, there is a VERY easy out for DC in that regard: They can just have Past Metron /use the Mobius Chair to time travel into the present/ and hang around with everyone else since as far as I know there's no rule stopping that shit from happening.

>HE FOUGHT THE OTHER BIG WHITE JOBBER IN THE SETTING
What's your point, that the Anti-Monitor is DC Gohan?

Well if the OP wasn't a flaccid meme post there might be more discussion about him.

My point is that he's cooler than you. Please justify your own existence before you shit on my boy.

Or why not just have Metron reconstitute himself with the Mobius Chair itself? He's sat on it for so long that I'm sure he's one with the damn thing by now. He's an observer, and it's not hard to assume he would be prepared for his own death to keep the knowledge from being lost

I don't hate what Snyder is doing but he absolutely fucked up in his handling of the anti monitor

There is literally nothing impressive about BTFOing the Spectre anymore now magic canonically has no limits. If the Presence genuinely, genuinely wants to fuck you up he has a gorillion better ways to do it than rely on that one angel doing hard time. And the Presence doesn't give a rat shit about anyone except determining which of his sons rebels first.

I'm not canonically a momma's boy who betrayed and absorbed my brothers to help Perpetua turn Earth-0 into the edgelord dumpster fire it currently is.

BOOM. THERE YOU GO. THAT IS WHY I AM COOLER THAN THE ANTI-MONITOR, I AM NOT AN ENABLER OF SNYDER SHIT.

Bold of you to assume DC would ever allow New Gods not named Darkseid (or Grail) do anything worthwhile, when Yuga Khan's drones merely shooting omega beams had Lightray, Highfather and Orion fleeing for their lives across the universe and they needed the Green Lanterns to destroy literally all of them.

He fucked up a character with no discernable personality traits or backstory nor any real need fo rthem by GIVING HIM PERSONALITY TRAITS AND A BACKSTORY, that has to be a Guinness World Record of writing failure.

>I'm not canonically a momma's boy who betrayed and absorbed my brothers to help Perpetua turn Earth-0 into the edgelord dumpster fire it currently is.

>post-Flashpoint
>canon
Miss me with that shit.

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>Bold of you to assume DC would ever allow New Gods not named Darkseid (or Grail) do anything worthwhile
I don't know, Granny had some cool stuff going in Humphries's Harley Quinn. He even gave her back her original origin instead of that dumbass shit the Female Furies solo book tried to do with that Darkseid rape stuff

so did the Joker, and his only power is living in a society

I know the backstory came up in a recent issue but doesn't Humphries' portrayal of Granny long predate THAT Furies book? So I figured Furies was pretty much an Elseworld. Anyway, that doesn't count for one simple reason: Granny is thwarted by Harley Quinn the irresponsible idiot madwoman with a hammer that should have died in seconds upon stepping into Apokalips (isn't it's atmosphere ultra poisonous going by Darkseid War?) in those appearance, which is inherently not worthwhile.

>literally published books
>not canon
Say you hate it if you want, but if you want to delude yourself that hard you may as well pretend the Silver Age never ended at all.