What makes an anti-villain?

Seen this term always thrown around with a different concept each time

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Anti Villain goals are truly altruistic and selfless similar to a hero, they are sacrificing themselves for a noble cause the difference between them and heroes is that they will cross the line and intentionally hurt innocents to achieve this goal.

Ex: Ozymandias and Thanos(MCU)

you are confusing the term antagonist with villain.
mr freeze was revised from gimmick bad guy to having a tragic origin and a noble goal in trying to save his wife.
most conflicts against him are due to his willingness to sacrifice anything and anyone to achieve his goal

An anti-villain is a character like Sinestro or Black Adam; you understand their motivations and goal which can appear morally good, but their actions and characterization ultimately still make them a villain. In your example Victor is technically an anti-villain because while you sympathize with his cause and pain, you acknowledge that his actions are deplorable and the goal gets lost in the horrific events that transpire.

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Most conflicts are due to his second goal: destroy everything and make people suffer a life without happiness like he has to.

Also, anti-villains don't really oppose the hero or actively impede them.

That's not true. How many times has Teth Adam fought Billy Batson? You're thinking of Anti-Heroes.

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It is just capeshit attempting to look at morals. Even Hitler and Stalin had intentions which millions thought to be good. Nobody would call them anti-villains.

>Hero: Selfless Goal + Moral Actions

>Villain: Selfish Goal + Immoral Actions

>Anti Hero: Selfish Goal + Moral Actions

>Anti Villain: Selfless Goal + Immoral Actions

An anti-villain has starkly differing motives and methods to an average villain while still being an antagonistic force. They are still a person being fought against, but their villainy is less on moral terms.

Sasha Waybright from Amphibia is someone who you can consider a anti-villain, who by the end of the season could become a Anti-Hero.

>Anti Hero: Selfish Goal + Moral Actions

Anti Heros are usually heros that kill.

She did. And she'll have to atone for that. But She and Grime are building a army to storm and Conquer Newtopia. And she'll probably head back to Warthood at some point during Recruitment because when creating a rebel army you look for anyone to join..

>She did. And she'll have to atone for that. But She and Grime are building a army to storm and Conquer Newtopia. And she'll probably head back to Wartwood at some point during Recruitment because when creating a rebel army you look for anyone to join..

That's kind of a bastardization of the original meaning. Luke Skywalker is considered a hero even though he kills, Han Solo is an anti hero because he was acting due to selfish reasons in the first movie.

Cloud, Link, Solid Snake, James Bond etc are all considered heroes, every single mythological warrior hero kill

It's a way to distinguish them from other literary archetypes. It's not meant to be that deep. It contrasts them with "traditional" villains in the same way that anti-heroes are contrasted with the hero archetype.

Are you going by principle or by example?

i thought an antivillian is an ally to a protagonist that causes harm. like Mcgillis Fareed in Iron Blood Orphans is a good example. also antivillians are rare

What would you consider the Punisher and Red Hood? Just heroes then? Or anti-villains?

I think they would be considered anti-heroes because the way they conduct themselves is portrayed as going against social rules. Unlike Skywalker or mythological heroes whose kills are seen as honorable warrior actions, these guys are shown as vigilantes who do stuff that goes beyond what is acceptable by the traditional heroes.

Depends. Are they the main focus? Then they're the anti hero/ Villain ptotagonist.

Anti Hero

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"Muh Nora" might have added depth to Mr. Freeze but it was ultimately his undoing. I've been reading comics from the 70s and 80s it's comfy as hell to see him as a regular bad guy doing bad guy stuff. Now that Nora is alive again in the comics and wants nothing to do with him, maybe Victor will finally become based again.

>but it was ultimately his undoing
That's stupid, his wife is the reason why he decided to go full villany but his spitefulness and lack of choices after crossing the line is what keep him going, Nora don't limit his character for the same reason Padme didn't limit Darth Vader.

In Tomasi's recent Mr. Freeze arc Victor says he never committed a single crime that didn't directly serve his goal of reviving Nora. That's lame as hell to me. Darth Vader didn't devote every single thing he did to Padmé.

I don't really consider Frank a hero, villain, anti or otherwise. What he does isn't for any moral endgame, he just wants to die in battle

It entirely depends where the writer sets the moral boundaries. We consider mass murderers anti heroes because killing is so casual in comics, Deadpool slaughtering hundreds of faceless goons. But a writer could sit down and create a story about a hero that doesn't kill and at some point he meets someone who does and could focus on the ramifications of taking lives. The people he kills are not just faceless goons that have no back story.

How about the cop he frooze and killed in Gotham Central? Or the girl he tried to rape once? Tomasi is the biggest hack working today, and has the intellect of Forest Gump.

Heroes die in battle

>>Anti Hero: Selfish Goal + Moral Actions
How does this, in any way, describe Frank Castle?

Frank is just a generic action movie hero.

"Victor says" is a pretty important bit of context. Even if Tomasi is trying to pull a Hulk Math other writers can simply interpret it as Victor attempting to justify his actions by tenuously tying it in with Nora.

And most of them are anti-heroes.