Do you think morally gray characters are just a cheap way to make a character deep or complex?

>irl
>canon
Lol I'm sure you have a great grasp of morality and philosophy bro

I WAS IN THE POOL!

>Needing ''a great grasp of morality and philosophy'' to know when something is right or wrong
Oh right, I'm in 4channel™

Yes that's objectively what a great grasp of morality is

>there has never been a clearer right/wrong
You have reading comprehension issues. I didn't say there isn't a clear right or wrong (or that there is), I said people aren't perfectly right or perfectly wrong.

Let's use the Bullock example. He's anti-murder, anti-bullying, anti-cheating, anti-gambling, anti-whoring, anti a lot of bad things.

But he cheats on his wife, almost murders his lover's father with his bare hands, doesn't arrest murderer even though he knows he murdered somebody, and on and on.

He has a very clear line of what is right and wrong, but he can't live up to it, like everybody else.

But he tries, which makes him a classic good-guy hero and not an anti-hero.

OK so the pitfall people tend to fall into when writing a "morally gray" character is to just take a normal character and tack on some abrasive traits. If you want to make a character morally gray and not half-ass it, give them a backstory, a motive, an angle, basically some REASONS for acting the way they do.

If you want my favorite example of a morally gray character, I'd go with one of the most reprehensible protagonists in video game history that still manages to remain sympathetic: Brad Armstrong. Despite being motivated by a reason that is selfless on the surface, rescuing his adoptive daughter, the actions he takes along the way show him to be deeply affected by his past trauma and drug addiction, making him self-destructive, prone to violence, and uncaring about the lives and livelihoods of others. He seeks redemption for his past but his method of getting it inevitably causes far more harm than good, ultimately making it a selfish endeavor.

In a different context or given a few minor tweaks, Brad's quest could be either a righteous mission or a senseless bloodbath. Instead the story falls in the middle of these two extremes (though admittedly closer to the bloodbath), which makes the situation morally gray. The last lucid thing he says in the story is "Did I do the right thing?" And that's not an easy or simple question.

That's a pretty extreme example of a morally gray character though, you don't have to go THAT far in depth or in unheroic traits. You just have to give consideration to why the character thinks and acts the way they do.

Yeah Brad is a great example of a good morally gray character although he's a shitty person

There are very few actual antivillains in all of literature. Most of the ones we have are moral anachronistic dissonance rather than intended that way originally.

Most antiheroes are just “heroes, but 90’s style”.

>people call me edgy when I say Manhattan was relatable because I really am just sick of everything and wish I could leave

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Like, he's a shitty person but he was kind of doomed from the start. His abuse forced him into the habits he formed. Maybe if he'd cared LESS things wouldn't have been as bad as they were. It's hard to say how much control he had over how things turned out. I mean you can go back and say "this is where he should have done this differently", but his experiences didn't tell him to do that, they told him to do what he did, if you get what I'm saying. He tried so hard to be good but goodness just wasn't possible in his life.

yes

Another great example is Giorno Giovanni. He may be a gangster but he's very clearly a hero.

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Yeah he wants to go for a Godfather thing

BUT WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH STEVE JOBS?

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In practice, yes. Conceptually, not necesarilly.

What's a deal?

>anti hero
You mean hero, but he punches villians and kill them for vengance? If so, i wouldnt say 90s but Dirty Harry style.

Ligma balls

>Do you think morally gray characters are just a cheap way to make a character deep or complex?
What are you on about? You're saying the equivalent of
>Do you think making something wet is just a cheap way to moisten it?
Like complex characters are gray by default. Or what, is there an "expensive way" to make characters complex?

But anti-heroes try as well.

What? Elaborate

Literally everything is about how you write the character. If you use moral ambiguity to make a character deep or complex, then yes it's cheap, if you make a deep and complex character who is morally grey, then you got something good.

So George as Dr Manhattan. How would THAT turn out?

Hair back