Why did Arthur decide to shoot Murray, when he originally was going to just suicide on camera?

Because it had been done before.

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Because suicide would have been tragic, but killing Murray was comical.

Assuming Budd Dwyer exists in that universe, he didn't kill himself until 1987. Joker takes place in 1981.

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>"If I admit and explain what I did then kill myself on live TV, everyone will surely feel sorry for me and finally respect me for the scrappy, unappreciated underdog I am!"
>"No, fuck you faggot, you're an awful person"
>"F-F-FUCK YOU! YOU'RE AWFUL! THE WORLD IS AWFUL! NOT ME!"

You’re the real moron, the mental illness thing is what they were going for, but just because you think you have a better interpretation doesn’t mean theirs is 100% wrong. Media is subjective.

He was becoming what the Joker identity he had incidentally created for himself represented. He says what needs to be said, and kills awful people.

He was originally going to kill himself because he wanted his struggle to be seen live on TV, committing suicide to send a message to everyone watching. "I hope my death makes more sense than my life." This is something the entire movie was leading up to, everything suggested that he just wanted to end his own life, and get it over with.

But as the movie progresses, we also see a bit of clever foreshadowing that suggests he's making a shift. The more he kills other people, the more free he feels, the better he feels about his own life, and the more it seems that he's done something right. The rallies which result are a great way of showing that, people support him, and in his head, his imagined girlfriend supports him, showing that he's coming to the conclusion by himself that what he did was right.

He was going to kill himself to send a message, but then, realizing that A: his message would likely not be understood by many people anyway, and B: this is what Arthur Fleck would do, Joker would never do this, he decides to take the Joker path, as it's the only path that ever gave him validation.

Also, because when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that treats him like trash, you get what you fucking deserve.

>implying trump actually cares about poor people and isn't just turning them against each other and tricking them into caring about issues that would only affect him and his other billionaire child molester friends

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He did it earlier in the Jokerverse.

Why would Murray deserve to die? He was only doing his job of making fun of people, and in person he was nothing but courteous and respectful of Arthur. Imagine if Arthur came out and said, "Murray I have a condition that makes me laugh." Murray probably would have been very curious and respectful.

Arthur acted like he was the only unhappy man in Gotham.

Murray deserved to die in Joker's eyes. Same as comic Joker, he's a misanthrope and thinks all people are as awful as he is. Arthur thought Murray was taking the mick out of him - a supposedly hapless victim of unlucky circumstance - when the guy was being more than fair towards him.

That's not the point, do you think that shooting Murray was at all constructive or useful either?
It's about sending the message

>he turned into TDK Joker with both versions sharing the same goals and view
Fucking what TDK/nolan movies did you watch? Nolan Joker was a plant by the league of shadows to help mold and solidify the Batman system.

>the Batman system.
What does that mean?

Nah, it's really, really on the nose political. The mental illness stuff doesn't really match up with what he says and would be pointlessly insulting to the mentally ill if true.
Killing Murray doesn't fix poverty, it's just gets attention. Same as Trump. They elected a demented billionaire racist misogynist, and he only lost the next vote by a couple hundred thousand. The rural poor are going to grow to dominate politics, especially if racism moves to the back burner and all poor people unite into a single voting block

>bringing a naive comedian on to make fun of how shitty his comedy is
>fair
Did we watch the same movie, or are you an asshole?

>What does that mean?
It makes sense if you actually watched Batman Begins.
Here, let me help.
>bruce gets picked up by secret society
>secret society tells him their current incarnation doesn't work
>says other tested systems failed
>all but says "you, motherfucker, YOU are the next system we're trying"
>the iconography (BATman) chosen is irrelevant
>secret society purposely leaves bruce out of the loop
>secret society gives bruce tools and motivation to take down/work around established funky systems
>mob, league of shadows itself, police, etc
>ok
>they're taken care of
>now how does he deal with new shit, a literal wildcard
>joker persona activated like a deadmans switch after league "taken down"
>pretty much same shit with bane

>the process of him becoming the clown prince of crime being completed right then and there.
???

What about Scarecrow then?

This is partially true. Mental illness is a theme here but liberal arrogance about the poor is at play; that's why they hated the movie so much

>What about Scarecrow then?
Part of it.

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First
>Zig Forums

Second
>because Murray was his hero, but then got disappointed in him more and more, until he decided Murray is the problem. Also, he wanted to see the audience react rather than assume they'd be shocked.

A literal nobody compared to Bane and Joker in this universe, didn't deserve that much of attention.

Which is a shame since the League almost destroyed Gotham thanks to his fear toxin, so him becoming irrevelant in the sequels was a real shame, specially when Bane came into frame and didn't kill off Scarecrow for being a lose end.