What's wrong with workers wanting to own the surplus value they create? Seems nice to me duuts

What's wrong with workers wanting to own the surplus value they create? Seems nice to me duuts

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>owning
>no private property
choose one

It's called comission, but only really offered in sales

The coming communist revolution can be averted by a cap on lifetime earnings (disguise it as a a tax or whatever) and UBI. Universal Medicare would be nice too.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT THEIR VENTURE YOU STUPID NIGGER

DID THEY RISK THE STARTUP CAPITAL? NO.

DID THEY HUSSLE THE FIRST CUSTOMERS, THE PRODUCT-MARKET FIT? NO.

YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA HOW BUSINESS WORKS YET YOU PROPOSE DRASTIC CHANGES? OF COURSE EVERYONE IS GOING TO THINK YOURE FUCKING STUPID.

that statement is axiomatically flawed, workers don’t create surplus value

in a developed economy labor is an insignificant part of the value equation. labor is effectively worthless. Communists should realize this instead of dogmatically insisting the opposite

>labor is inherently worthless

Except for all those businesses that were hurting because they couldn’t get workers to show up these last few months.

The answer is explained to you in convenient cartoon format, perfect for your intellect. Watch Animal Farm.

Nobody risks startup capital, dipshit. At least not any that they own.

A cap on incentive is merely a disincentive. The problem is the bottom whatever% are dissatisfied with their inability to compete.

As a nation we either:
1. Help them become more competitive (bring in better jobs, better education)
2. Distract them by legalizing vices and/or throwing peanuts at them
3. Eliminate their population through prison, war, disease

Generally in the US the disenfranchised move to liberal areas and self-enslave with drugs and promiscuity. Fuck that up and the mob gets unruly leading to 3. The only way out is reestablishing 2 or long term providing 1.

Fixing entitlement mentality and essentially low skilled workers is through education and morality, or some great purge.

non essential business doesn’t create value either

Good to know you think manufacturing doesn’t create value

“value” is a nonce concept to begin with, just like the LTV

Once again truth prevails. If the worker earns his true wage then what incentive does the entrepreneur or leader have to start up an idea? None.

Without growth, without new ideas and businesses you have NOTHING. There would be no roads, no buildings, no vaccinations, etc. And without that a society withers and dies.

I get what you're saying here, but you're speaking in absolutes which is pretty dangerous. Of course workers should be compensated but perhaps not directly by their employers. All workers have a right to live a life not stacked against them (environmental waste products, law enforcement corruption, corrupt lobbying against those in need in favor of the ultra-rich). Also, what about commission?
Also I seem to be missing something, are you guys OP, because his statement is verrry vague and you both seem to be verrry certain on what exactly OP is talking about given his question?

>no private property
He didn’t say that

I dont think it's entitlement to not want to pay near a quarter of your monthly pay because you may get sick, outside of pandemic conditions of course.

“surplus value” is a sideways label for arbitrary state-mandated capital distribution away from the capital holder, it’s very clear what OP wants

If the business runs at a loss for some period, does that mean the workers should pay for it?

Rights are just an enshrinement of leverage into law. They don't exist unto themselves, despite the language of "unalienability" found in various historical bills of rights.

Unions are certainly one way to increase your leverage as a worker.

But workers have been getting screwed since the early 1970s, as the rate of return to capital relative to labor began to accelerate. This was technological.

Those returns very rapidly found their way into regulatory capture that ended up destroying unions in order to benefit free trade designed to maximize efficiency in global capital flows.

This is just a part of the cycle of history. Eventually capital will eat itself, sociopolitical instability will come to a boiling point, and the returns to capital will be distributed amongst the masses following whatever revolt or war results.

First of all, I'm a fan of mutual insurance companies [where customers are also stakeholders] and employee owned companies [like winco here in AZ].

However commies deserve to be thrown from helicopters.

>Eventually capital will eat itself, sociopolitical instability will come to a boiling point, and the returns to capital will be distributed amongst the masses following whatever revolt or war results.

>it’ll happen guys I swear!!11

Nah, above average productivity. When people dont perform up to your standards, you eat the cost or fire them, pretty simple.

Fuck workers lmao
I serve the machine god Capital exclusively

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yup. they're called employee owned companies and nothing is stopping commies from running them.
but they refuse to because they're all lazy leeches, who just want to be the commissar who profits from the "co-ops" but isn't actually an employee himself

>says the half-kike great-grandson of some wealthy jew businessman who got his startup capital from the local elders of zion and papers from his cousin on mainstreet

you are a hack and a poser, pay your fucking workers

Thou shalt not covet.

Op here, "surplus value" is just what I kept seeing twitter commies say in arguments. I'm not actually in support of it myself lol, im just shitposting and wanted to start a discussion.

The way I see it, you get paid based on the market and what you're willing to work for, hence why salaries for higher level jobs are negotiable. If you don't like it, you can start your own business; the reason the firm profits off you is bc as someone else said, they're the ones who started it and are risking the capital.

Ofc capitalism's not perfect though; unregulated it often leads to monopolies, then there's also corporate lobbying, etc.

Why don't the workers just use their wages to buy ownership of the company?

>reeeeeee