the strongest heroic spirit

No it's still true.

Note that there are things stronger than Heroic Spirits.

>they hype up some jobber to be undefeatable and then the underdog mops the floor with him.

Fate did not invent the concept of the underdog coming out on top lol read a book.

Pride is always a killer, but he's also rather dumb

youtube.com/watch?v=emIy5jCoAlc

At least he had good time with Kotomine.

What the fuck are you talking about. He "won" Zero's HGW. In the end, he was the last servant standing

Hubris.

Gilgamesh literally has one of, if not the best win record in fate. Cope.

He won the grail war several times in the bad ends.

Wrong. He’s the strongest.

He's holding back

Agreed. Artoria was getting assfucked by him.

He wins in the majority of timelines though? Nash even said that Shirou only stops him in a single timeline, and it is such a miracle it could never be replicated.

I'd even argue he wasn't even the absolute strongest in certain aspects back then.

how would you win a grail war with gil? he doesn't seem the type to be controlled by anyone

You know he could just said that Assassin won in most timelines of the Stay/Night grail War and it wouldn't change anything right, cuz he dies in all three routes. Why does Nasu even like Gilgamesh so much anyway

Technically the only person in F/SN who doesn't win a war is Kotomine, afair he's always a fatality according to F/HA.

It depends on which version of Gill, since in literally every appearance he has a different personality. Zero Gill, Fate route Gill, UBW Gill, and Extraverse Gill are all radically different personalities, with Extraverse Gill probably being the one you could get along with the best.

I don’t understand why he even answers the grails call. He has his own holy grail that he uses as a drinking cup.

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for fun

God I fucking hate grand order. I thought it was established the grail is something he didn't actually have. You know, on account of Jesus not being alive and bleeding into it yet.

Zero literally made fate completly nonesensical to me.
>all of arthurias development just gone
>she can‘t remember the battle withe the spear guy
>most of her character stuff just resetted
>the whole story is miles weaker than zero
Zero is good. And king arthur beeing a woman was a great idea

zero was written after F/SN and takes place in a completely different timeline

>timelines
hack writing 101

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You don't. You just command seal him to kill himself and pray the Church will protect you.

Can’t he cancel it out with his own command seals he has in GoB?

In defense, it's also two different writers. What probably happened is
>F/SN is written
>Nasu and Urobuchi meet somehow, get along fairly well, Urobuchi wants to write for Fate and make Zero
>Nasu doesn't really oversee it
>then it comes out and it turns out there's a whole bunch of inconsistencies for a prequel
>oh fuck put it in a different timeline

What?
>all of arthurias development just gone
>most of her character stuff just resetted
Arthuria is completely devastated by the end of Zero and wants to change her past. It's literally the same motivation she has in Stay/Night
>she can‘t remember the battle with the spear guy
Eh? You don know Zero Lancer and Stay Night Lancer are different characters, right?

If he does then just use your first seal to stop him from using GOB and then have him kill himself.

I personally like how Ufotable incorporated the Zero stuff and made it one cohesive story instead. That's probably one of the anime's strongest points

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Im pretty sure he meant that Shirou only beat him in the UBW route.

Yeah the fact Zero Anime flows naturally into UBW Anime is a fucking miracle to be honest.

Circumstances of the battlefield aside, Karna is 100% as strong as he is if we are just going by Full Power. This was confirmed in Extella (Using Gawain as a mouthpiece for Nasu)
Gate of Babylon does NOT contain Karna's Spear so it can and will do some serious damage to him.
Karna also has protection against antagonistic interference due to his armor so all of Gil's physical and conceptual damage is reduced by 90%.

He's not the strongest, Quetzalcoatl could easily one shot him.

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Just order him to sword spam without the talking, he always loses because he talks too much.

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Just came in here to say

What the fuck are you people talking about? Gilgamesh has won two grail wars at this point.

Here's an approximate image of grail war winners

What's missing from this image is that in Gilgamesh's CCC ending the Extra war continued onward from normal, meaning Gilgamesh finished the Extra war, beat Buddha, and won. We even see the results of it in his ending.

He won Zero and Extra wars

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when will you retards learn?
>Gen Urobuchi: The process was that I drafted up a proposal for the new characters and the plot, and showed it to Nasu-san for his supervision. However, consequently, 90% of those proposals were accepted as they were already Nasu-san's ideas. As for character names, Hisau Maiya was only character name that I suggested. The other characters were all named by Nasu-san.

it’s also missing the fragments GW, but that should be about it?

He has "thing of infinite mana" because it is something that humans dreamed of.

For fun, or because the other Servants are mucking about with something he considers to be his treasure.

Also, remember that Gilgamesh has Independent Manifestation according to Extella. He can summon himself if he needs to anyway.

>this is the average zerofag
kek

>Also, remember that Gilgamesh has Independent Manifestation according to Extella
The Extraverse is an entirely different universe where Archer can project excaliburs and fire them off in rapid succession, user.

Wait, that girly guy actually won something?
>only finished F/Z, F/SN and F/HA.

>He can super project excaliburs and fire them off rapidly
Says in mats that he can barely produce "Excalibur Image", which isn't true Excalibur and is badly deranked, its several ranks weaker. It contains just a fragment of Excalibur's light, and he can only barely recreate it because he can mold wrought Iron a bit better in Mooncell

But really Nasu says its because an animator created a model for Excalibur and he didn't want to waste it.

Oh right, regarding that guy who asked how you make Gil serious, read Strange/Fake I guess.
It ultimately just depends on his whims.

>that girly guy
Saber?

Excalibur can be projected anyway. Archer states he could do it in UBW, though it would be a suicide attack because he has almost no mana left. Shirou proves that it could be done in HF Normal, where he traces and projects Excalibur and uses it to destroy the Grail at the cost of his life.

Well, he was the one who survived till the end. So he won, yes.

>Says in mats that he can barely produce "Excalibur Image",
Play the game, you can fire off excalibur images in every single fucking encounter.

>It ultimately just depends on his whims.
He has a sliding scale, ultimately his views line up.

Things he doesn't take seriously
>Mad dogs(berserkers)
>Mages
>Humans

Things he takes seriously
>gods
>demi gods
>Kings
>Enkidu

When he meets Karna for the first time he gets serious. When he meets Heracles he's angry and bored since a great demi-god was reduced to just a mad dog. He takes Archer a bit seriously, but he refuses to get serious for Shirou, which costs him.

He typically always gets a bit hyped when fighting someone with divine blood or someone who calls themselves a king. He's willing to bring out Ea against another King.

Yes and the point is that the Extraverse is fucking stupid and should not be considered canon to the main timeline because it operates on retarded logic where every Servant has infinite mana.

The point is that you're a biased moron. You said something you didn't understand, it got proven wrong, and are now falling back "Yeah okay but we should still hate it please, I don't care the reason anymore".

Christ I really wish you would just understand the point I'm making but instead you've decided to put words in my mouth. Nevermind, I'm leaving.

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Saber! Lay down your sword and be my wife!

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Have you ever played magic the Gathering, Commander Multiplayer? It's a format where every player choose a Legendary character to be their commander and engage in a free for all battle. The point is that there are some commanders that are so powerful they become weak, because the instant the other see that you play that commander they instantly turn against you because they know that it's their only chance to win. So instead of a 4vs4 free for all it turns into a 3 Vs 1. The end result is that often is actually harder to win using the strongest commanders instead of one strong but not "destroy him on sight"strong.

He doesn't really take Ishtar serious

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Ishtar is a clown he doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously.

Funnily enough, that's what happens in Apocrypha's backstory. They realize honorable duels like Keyneth is retarded and Assassin became the most valuable since you can just use them to kill the Masters. Meta shifts to Assassin being the most sought after instead of Knight class like in FSN. So people decide to team up and hunt down whoever summoned Assassin first, then get back to free for all. God, Apoc is one hell of a wasted potential where the backstory is all so much more interesting than what was actually shown.

Gil doesn't care about FGO Ishtar because he knew that she has been neutered by her human vessel. He treats her as less of a joke in SF where you see more of her ruthless side.

Nasu refuses to acknowledge that ending for whatever reason. He repeatedly maintains that Excalibur can't be recreated. Plus I can't really see Excalibur Image destroying the Greater Grail. The kaboom isn't big enough.

Gunna need a source for all those headcanons, man.

You serious? This has been common knowledge since Complete Material.

>Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?
>A: Divinely forged weapons such as Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded Noble Phantasms with similar performance in stock, though. Also, since sword is becoming Shirou's origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.

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I kneel...

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That's right, he can't project a perfect replica of Excalibur, but he can form an image of it with a close approximation to it's power. It wouldn't be made up of "literally miracles" like the original excalibur though.

Let's also not forget that this isn't "THE" excalibur. It's Excalibur Morgan/Alter. It's probably marginally easier to replicate than the true excalibur.

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>le he didn't get to show his true potential
>haha.... he was holding back
Literal cope. These arguments are also worthless against non-meme Assassins who are supposed to murder someone before they can exert their true power

Any other anime like Fate? I've seen basically all of the Fate adaptations and want something similar

Why the fuck is this plot point completely abandoned in UBW? And I'm not just talking about the anime. In Fate he's like that too and then he forgets about it in the next route

not fate but if you havent checked out the rest of type moon you could check out nasu's older works

To have an ex-boyfriend type character before he got bored and wanted to write him a different way

>close approximation
He can't. Excalibur Image is way, way weaker. He can't produce the "tower of light" that's characteristic of Excalibur's beam. All it produces is a shockwave that still does a ton of damage, but nowhere near the level of the true Excalibur.

Excalibur Morgan is still Excalibur. Its nature as the a crystallization of humanity's wishes forged by fairies in the heart of the planet doesn't change.

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His hatred of Shinji surpasses his boner for Saber.

Kara no Kyoukai is in the same universe. There is also Tsukihime but there is no anime of it and if you'd ever find one, it'd be a fever dream and thus wouldn't be real

>fate didnt invent shit
>it must be good!

Other Type Moon works. Drifters. Really anything with a lot of chuuni

DIES IRAE is superior to Fate.

lowest iq person ever.

How is Archer not the strongest servant? He's a direct counter to Gil and has many more tricks up his sleeve.

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Honestly it looks interesting. I'll probably pick it up when I'm in the mood for a VN.

It's pretty good, it's also pretty fucking long so be sure to clean out some inventory if you plan to consume it in one go.

Because he isn't even technically a direct counter to Gil if Gil wasn't dumb. Gil can probably pull out like an ancient Sumerian snake jar and then just kill him with lots of snakes or something.

There are so many different Fate anime out there though. If you mean the ufo universe then obviously Kara no Kyoukai

I mean Ea would be strong against Archer but can't he counter that with Rho Aias?

His stats are a major problem, they're pretty low to middling. He doesn't exactly have the raw mana to spam Broken Phantasms over and over either. What he has a large number of hidden trump cards.

Setting up Unlimited Blade Works isn't always worth the mana either, since plenty of Servants can deal with swordspam. Archer's hidden aces are his Broken Phantasms, and if he's gonna rely on that, then it's best not to waste mana on setting up a bounded field.

It seems like Shirou can pull out all the mana he needs out of his ass when the going gets tough.

>Stats lower than other servants
>No legend
>No boost in any country, no fame, this is a huge disadvantage
>All of his traced items get automatically ranked down, and he cannot use them anywhere near as well as the original owner
>You may say (but hurr durr he has the original owners skill) not really, he has to almost kill himself to do that, and the original owners skill is also ranked down. So its just a pale imitation that doesn't fit his body. Which is why he says that imitating Saber's fighting style is clunky and tears his body apart every time he does it, its only when Shirou traces Archer's fighting style that he starts feeling like his body isn't being shredded.
>This is the reason he said that no one who's actually mastered their blade would have a hard time beating him. Someone who's mastered their style won't ever lose to a pale imitation of someone elses fighting style that is nowhere near mastery since its a poor copy, Mastery > One trick pony every time
>The amount of mana required for UBW will drain him in a minute or two
>The amount of mana required for tracing strong weapons at all will drain him fast
>Takes him 30 seconds of just sitting there to make an NP into a broken phantasm
>In order to use his NP he has to have about a minute of uninterrupted chanting which leaves him open as fuck
>Has no natural healing, a single surprise attack takes him out of commission for weeks.

Archer is weak in most situations, but strong in two particular ways. People that say he's the strongest kinda missed a lot of context in the game.

yeah but Archer doesn't have MC asspull powers anymore

Oh for fuck's sake I'm not getting into an argument like this again. Shirou traces a close copy of Excalibur and blows up the grail with it in the heaven's feel normal ending, end of fucking story. Goodbye.

Raw stats are shit and he's too retarded to actually utilize his huge arsenal instead of fighting with dual blades as an Archer.

I'm pretty sure EA beats Rho Aias but he would never actually use it against EMIYA, for some reason.

Any Servant call kill any other Servant if the situation is right.

Whatever. Point is Nasu doesn't care and he'll repeatedly ignore that ending forever. All we can do is complain about it, but none of us have the power to affect anything.

Holy grails in Fate aren't the actual Holy Grail you tard. The real Grail did exist and Galahad sent it to Heaven.

Why did the UBW anime have Archer use Unlimited Blade Works when he fought Shirou? Wasn't he already insanely low on mana by that point? How could he use his reality marble, fight Shirou, and still survive for another day after getting wrecked by Gil.

Yeah, but that's a pretty risky tactic. He's burning out his own circuits when he does that and he risks crippling himself. Most Noble Phantasms have innate power all on their own without requiring extra mana, so it's not that much of an issue. Because Shirou is optimized for recreating swords, he can forge most bladed Noble Phantasms relatively easy. But that doesn't necessarily mean he can fight just as well as the original users. He can copy techniques, but it's not as if he'd be able to match Assassin just by copying his sword.

Enuma Elish is stronger than Excalibur right?

Supposedly Lion King had the real grail in camelot since it was called the cup of the messiah. But the real grail is noted to not be able to grant wishes at all, instead it does something else.

All grails that grant wishes are descended from the Mother Harlot's chalice, which is an inversion upon Christ's words, since he said not to pile up meaningless wealth in the world and not indulge in meaningless greed or something. The "holy grail" that grants infinite wishes is just an evil grail that indulges in infinite greed.

Yeah. Excalibur can only mitigate the damage just enough so that Saber doesn't die.

Lion King couldn't even summon Galahad, there's no way she had a real Grail. Ozy had that time period's grail anyway.

I love Gil but good lord is he a retard for being too cocky and jobbing all his fights.

In FGO it’s super effective against pretty much everyone

CAUSE FATE IS UNREDEEMABLE TRASH WHICH LIVES OF SOME BULSHITTERY POWER SYSTEM WHICH IS IMMEDIETELY OVERTHROWN BY THE WRITERS ANYWAY

HERE I SAID IT!!!

yes the anime made a weird choice there, it was never in the vn

It should be, but Excalibur got retconned to being absolutely bonkers when all seals are released, and is stronger against threats to the world like Aliens.

IIRC Enuma Elish isn't really a blast or a beam, it's something that literally tears through dimensions.

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Yea I just finished the VN and since the UBW anime was my first introduction I was wondering where that came from. And now that I read the VN I realize that them fighting in the reality marble doesn't make a lot of sense because it's stated many times Archer is severely depleted of mana.

>Why did the UBW anime have Archer use Unlimited Blade Works when he fought Shirou?
Because he did it in the Visual Novel.
>Wasn't he already insanely low on mana by that point?
Low enough yes.
>How could he use his reality marble, fight Shirou, and still survive for another day after getting wrecked by Gil.
Mana management. He used UBW to:
1. Try and intimidate Shirou.
2. Place him smack dab in the middle of his inevitable end that symbolizes Shirou's entire life.
3. Fucking kill him instantly if he felt like it.

In the VN he only keeps up the UBW for a few minutes then lets it dissipate. The anime changed it so he kept up the reality marble for much longer.

It doesn't really matter honestly. The quantity of how much mana he has left can change on the writer's whims as it's a fictional concept and has no quantifiable units that can be measured and kept track of.

I'm talking about him using UBW in their final fight. Their final fight in the VN takes place in Einzbern's castle.

The real grail is not what Lion King had, that's not what Goetia threw back in time, Goetia never had the Jesus cup. Goetia just had some nameless saint graph grails he created. Ozzy had a grail, but Lion King also had a grail.

However Lion King was said to have the chalice of Christ, which she used to baptize the knights into evil knights, and give them grail buffs. After you meet Tristan and see his grail buff, Da Vinci tells you only the genuine holy grail could have made a servant that unnaturally strong, it was enough to make her lose all hope. She probably stole it from Jesus in the throne of gods, since she was a genuine divine spirit. They talk about it more in Camelot Zero how she baptized the KotR in the blood from the cup after they killed their brethren.

She is a Divine Spirit you retard, not a Heroic one

>Their final fight in the VN takes place in Einzbern's castle.
Yes same as the anime. Archer uses UBW in both.

not in the vn

Yes, actually. He does. He uses it, the scene changes to Rin in her hostage situation, and when it changes back the reality marble is gone again.

In every single version of the archer vs shirou fight at the einzbern castle, archer uses UBW. Visual novel, DEEN movie, and Ufotable anime.

Or SF Gil, given that being summoned at the same time as Enkidu puts him in the best possible mood.

Can you guys point out where? I'm trying to find it.
youtube.com/watch?v=Nd3on5Au0dE&list=PL1ljDgsqdVOZi0GaI22HF-ZmHAt6hS6FC&index=56
youtube.com/watch?v=OD-XuCn7760&list=PL1ljDgsqdVOZi0GaI22HF-ZmHAt6hS6FC&index=57

You really thought Archer brought out his Reality Marble when his own thoughts say he's operating at less than 10% of his strength before Shirou arrives to the castle?

even if this line technically makes sense in context it'll never not be funny

no?
lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update 216/

>>A: Divinely forged weapons such as Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded Noble Phantasms with similar performance in stock, though. Also, since sword is becoming Shirou's origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.
>There might be some degraded Noble Phantasms with similar performance in stock, though
>Ea can probably wipe the current Texture off the face of the planet at full blast
>Excalibur unga-bunga'd Sefar who kept their rape-train going on long enough to devastate entire pantheons of gods

What the hell would EMIYA have that could even /compare/ to those two?

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>Also, remember that Gilgamesh has Independent Manifestation according to Extella
I thought only Beasts have that ability?

I pray that Fate never gets used for a Death Battle.

Being made living by the grail mud from fate/zero is a much netter victory than what Saber got.

>.

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Probably Gram or something. Shirou can't reproduce holy swords, but it doesn't look like demonic swords have that limitation.

Looks like it's time for me to open up the visual novel again.

Think so lad. I did think Archer BTFOing Shirou in UBW in the UBW anime was kino though.

I could have sworn he did. I distinctly remember it too, but I guess I need a refresher.
>Archer BTFOing Shirou in UBW in the UBW anime was kino though.
Yeah Nasu changed a few things in the anime for the sake of symbolism and style, nothing significant as far as I remember.

Saber blew it up and disappeared before it was complete because her master was a sore loser. And he still got incarnated by it, so I'd say he was basically the winner of the only war he participated in.

He does use UBW the day before they fight in the church but not when they actually fight.

Merlin has it, as does Saber-Shiki, and Alter-Ego Kiara too.

PLAY THE REST OF THE CLIP

They specifically call it a beast skill
Merlin says that he's "something that could have been a beast, had beast potential, but chose a different path". In fact Merlin is the one who explains its a beast only skill.
Kiara is a beast

Things that are beasts, or could have been beasts, have it.

Kneel to the true strongest fate servant.

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ea will overpower vasavi shakti and if karna uses it he loses his armor
gil takes this easely if he takes karna seriously which he most likely would

Gil could have a been an Evil of Humanity? Assuming that user talking about him having it was legit.

I'm guessing Shiki is just to the exception to the rule.

Shiki is Akasha, the ultimate evil. humans must destroy the root, only then will they be free.

How did Archer even get Rho Aias? Where does it even come from?

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Gil is type earth
screencap this

Fought a Servant who used the real thing, like all his projections.

he traced it in a different grail war

From who? Who has the original?

The same person who wielded it in the real myth. Why do you even need to ask?

Ajax, according to Google.

But when did Shirou encounter said person? That's what I'm wondering.

who knows, probably around the time he encountered Hrunting.

you guys are forgetting that he's a fucking cg who gets called back to different points in history

Ah that's true. Archer should have a shit ton of other uber powerful noble phantasms he has copied in his mind then.

Gil is a jobber. Gilfags will tell you I'm wrong

yes

I think besides Rho Aias they're all fucking swords

Nah I love Gil, but he's an actual dumbass. He shouldn't have lost any of his fights if he just spammed Enuma Elish.

They buff gil beyond grand levels when they confirmed he had a grail inside GoB.

...should those things actually be part of him though? Aren't servants just copies that don't retain memories of their previous invocations?

They way they phrase it is that Ea essentially can unmake the world, but Excalibur can expel things from the world. Essentially, that means Ea can destroy anything of Earth while Excalibur is made to destroy things not of it.

UBW is different, it retains anything he's ever seen regardless of him retaining the memories or not.

GoB is the same technically, it contains things even Gilgamesh hasn't seen before due to how it works.

Rho Aias isn't a sword!

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It's anything he's collected either by direct means or even by proxy if it belonged to a vassal or someone of his kingdom which once spanned almost the entire planet.

His only real drawback is that he doesn't own any divine weapons unless he personally collected it.

Shirou's autism extends his projection stuff to anything tangentially related to swords, meaning Sheathes, and Shields.

And sometimes a bow.

A shield is just a really round sword with blunt edge. And if you're a true sword autist, you can even sharpen the edge so you have a shield blade.

His mistake was he didn't use the EA sword against Shirou

That's probably why Alaya would never summon Gilgamesh as a Grand Servant on the grounds it's Gilgamesh and he wouldn't listen to anyone or be trusted not to do his own thing.

also GoB has a noble Phantasm in it that literally organizes it for Gill, it's like the girl in Medaka Box that had a power to count how many powers she had

>They buff gil beyond grand levels when they confirmed he had a grail inside GoB.
Wtf since when is that a thing

Just let him do what he wants.

FGO

That'd be like using a mini gun against a tiny dog.

Yeah in theory the dog could bite you, and that dog could be riddled with diseases and maybe it might end up killing you, but a simple handgun should be enough.

Shirou just happened to awaken to the one reality marble that was an exact hard counter to his Gate of Babylon, and since Gilgamesh isn't a real fighter, he lost the fight when he couldn't overwhelm someone with brute force. That's really GIl's problem. He doesn't learn how to use anything. He's not a warrior so much as he's basically just someone who's so broken in all attributes that he's never had to work to learn how to do anything.

I play FGO and do not recall that part

>lets sacrifice all our assassins in a direct confrontation just to see what's up with Rider
Was this guy a fucking retard?

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ok shirou

He literally says why in Zero, because they are fighting over something that belongs to him
People thought it was just his usual "everything in the world is my property" autism but it guess it was actually true.

Gilgamesh actually can use some of his weapons, he's just too arrogant to get serious enough to bother. He beats Atilla the Hun in direct combat in Extella rather easily, and Atilla was said to be above normal heroic spirits in combat. He also beat Saber in direct combat in Fate route briefly. Switching weapons too fast for her to adapt he managed to push her back, she had to jump back from the fight.

His problem isn't that he can't fight and can't use anything, its that he already wrote off Shirou, to the point that he did everything possible to give Shirou a chance to win.

The problem with Gilgamesh was supposed to be that he had not mastered any particular blade, not that he couldn't fight directly. The gap between using and mastery is an entire lifetime dedicated to using a single weapon and understanding it perfectly. But he has perfected using Enkidu, Ea, Axe of the Road, and maybe Enki.

You might be stupid. They directly said in Zero that he had the grail, and grails=/= jesus cup. A grail is anything that can grant a wish, this is explained at depth in FSN. There have been over 700 holy grail citings by the church as of 2005 according to FSN, the church is sent to find and confiscate any grails any time one is heard about, which is why they're sent to watch over the grail wars as well.

Ironically only a fake grail can actually be a real grail, as its mentioned the genuine grail cannot grant wishes since Jesus doesn't agree with people indulging in infinite mindless greed of "having anything you want whenever you want" since it will corrupt you instantly. The true grail does something, but not wishes.

The various grails throughout history go by various names, such as Dagda's cauldron.

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Oh boy it's a Fate power thread.

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If gil had vimana in fsn, nobody would have been able to even touch him. Emiya isn't a direct counter.

HF saber would always defeat gilgamesh
Excalibur spam is just too much for him

Ea is still stronger than excalibur. Excalibur is only stronger than Ea(in terms of raw power) ONLY when the enemy is an alien.

Coming to Zig Forums to talk about Fate makes me feel like someone from the future at this point.
They're still stuck in FSN saying "Gilgamesh is the strongest hero, no Arthuria is" like they've just read Zero and FSN.

And I come from the future and can just post shit from FGO that blows their minds because of how outside of the realms of what they understand at this point it is. Like mecha Zeus absorbing the entire pantheon of Olympic gods to become Super Zeus, and then he dies when Romulus=Quinerius is summoned who turns all the Olympic gods into Roman gods, and then Miyamoto Musashi shows up yet again and kills a universe.

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>losing to a high schooler

this
musashi>gilgamesh

Anything that isn't in a good anime isn't canon.

Musashi wank is incredibly dumb though so I'll pretend it doesn't happen.

IIRC, that's why you get 2 grails in Babylonia. Once from the grail that Solomon sent and the other from the one that Gil pulled out of his ass.

Also this

Some of us refuse to acknowledge GO's existence

Its too late for you, you're already dead. Its all being made into an anime and you'll be forced to acknwoledge it eventually, at which point you'll bandwagon on and pretend you were always part of it.

that would mean excluding all fate anime with the exception of zero

If he can deal with richard, who was spamming excaliblasts(albeit weaker), and has A++ agility. He'll easily be able to deal with Saber alter who has D agility.

>gilgamesh needed help to defeat tiamat and even then he died
I guess that's your limit....king of heroes

Exactly

Richard was pushing gilgamesh back
he was getting overwhelmed

>Zig Forums: "Gilgamesh is the strongest"
>/vg/; "And then Mashu pulled out Black Barrel and destroyed mecha colony Zeus, and then ORT shows up-"
>Zig Forums: NO

>Its all being made into an anime and you'll be forced to acknwoledge it eventually
I don't give a shit how many anime it gets.
>at which point you'll bandwagon on and pretend you were always part of it
Sorry I am not a dumb zoomer like you I don't do that shit.

you should go back there, also gilfags aren't representative of an entire board you dumb gachanigger

literally proving the post

Babylonia. Kingu has 1 grail from Solomon and Gil has another in his GoB

>Gilgamesh won F/Z

I know Gilgamesh tells Kirei they won, but whenever it's brought up in any material in F/SN Kirei always says Kiritsugu won but just rejected the Grail. He never mentions himself as the winner.

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Saber said that Gilgamesh won in FSN

mashu is stronger than gil

Doesnt he say he has the Grail in his treasury back in Zero right?

>gilfags aren't representative of an entire board
Plus /vg/ is has plenty of retarded gilfags as well.

yea but he coulda easily just been bullshitting. Babylonia confirmed it.

no

I shook my head when I first saw F/E, and my fear indeed came true years later. The power creep is now uncontrollable, the art also progressively become worse, inconsistent, and fan service-ly. While on the side, mecha overwhelmed in a supposedly fantasy filled world. After seeing my friend who don't get the appeal of F/SN but love F/E and its future spawn to death, I already expect at some point I would loathe future fate product.

What the fuck does having the grail in his treasury change?

I'll take your word for it but I'm also going to go back to the VN because I could've swore in HF Saber tells Shirou that they were the victor but then suddenly Kiritsugu betrayed her.

The Quetz in Babylon was WAY stronger then a Heroic Spirit.

Gilgamesh at the time *the real living one* knew that should could have nuked Uruk off the map had she wanted too. She is a different level to a heroic spirit.

FSN was urban fiction, FGO is an excuse to have full on world-wide issues, which allows Nasu to use concepts he's had for decades such as Primate Murder, TYPES, and Zelretch, and actually use them in an appropriate story. Having FGO there doesn't change anything, urban fiction stories like FSN and Tsukihime still exist. FGO is just an excuse for the stakes to be larger than normal so they can use bigger concepts and higher stakes than normal

I never get over normalfags who think that FGO being there somehow retconned FSN by merely existing, and therefore the only recourse is to destroy FGO, and by that they mean just shitposting it and pretending it doesn't exist any time its mentioned.

There are still other TM, Fate, etc stories with small time stakes like you pretend that you want coming out, those aren't retconned and destroyed, stories such as Case Files and Fate/Strange are still coming out. But in reality you don't actually want what you pretend you want.

>There are still other TM, Fate, etc stories with small time stakes like you pretend that you want coming out, those aren't retconned and destroyed, stories such as Case Files and Fate/Strange are still coming out. But in reality you don't actually want what you pretend you want.
what?

gil is still stronger than her

FGO is a different timeline then FSN, so it really doesn't matter once normies realize they can just ignore it.

honestly I wish Nasu used stuff like Beasts and Primate Murder not in the same game as something with servants

They "won" because the other team rejected the grail. But a win is a win. He was alive and Saber wasn't

>FGO is an excuse to have full on world-wide issues
and FGO proves that nasu can't write those kinda of stories for the life of him
>who think that FGO being there somehow retconned FSN by merely existing
FGO retcons tons of shit stop being stupid
>stories such as Case Files and Fate/Strange are still coming out
Case Files is shit never bothered to try Fate/Strange but it sounds like just a bunch of powerlevel autism

>gil
>the strongest
Couldn't even beat a high schooler who just learned how to use his powers.

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Heaven's Feel is also pretty good so far. I like it

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>Gil
>Strongest

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The Gil in Babylon didnt have access to Ea, had divided his treasury amongst his people and had already expended mana to summon 8 servants of his own.

He couldnt stop Quetz if he wanted too.

>FGO retcons tons of shit stop being stupid
Not that guy, but can you list them?

You're talking like power doesn't matter at all. I agree it's not all but being at the top should count for at least 40% of the way. The test is motivation (which Gil lacks) and planification (which needs motivation to work properly).

>which allows Nasu to use concepts he's had for decades such as Primate Murder, TYPES, and Zelretch
You can't be serious. Combining Fate series and them are not the problem. Rather, how it went down was the problem. We always know things like Primate murder need at least seven guardians to control, and Types that could wreck apart planets. Back then most people always thought it was natural that FSN and Tsukihime was in the same world, but now to differentiate it, something that's not really a problem, the company made a pile of excuses that gave more problems than its worth.
People are aghast by the retcons, retconing things left and right like how now there's modern heroic spirits, or how the supposedly powerless ones somehow became game breaking with nonsense backstories. Shoving mechas when even the types in note, the aliens back then were described to be otherworldly fantasy monsters are also a problem.
FGO didn't really retcon FSN existence like you said, but it retcons the general rule uncontrollably. Some of the other series are not as bad, but it had to follow the updated rules, that's why they became as strange and revolting sometimes as the series progress. Like, Strange fake at the earliest stage of production had similar scent like FSN, but now it's just a puddle of chaos.

Pretty sure a good number of Grand candidates can trash him. King Hassan is all flavors of broken in the lore.

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FGO really doesn't recon shit

>b-but servants remember things, taht's a recon right?
They literally explain that. Just like how servants remember things in Extra grail war, the Chaldea summoning system also has its own unique summoning style that allows for some diferences in how things work.

You're confusing "These are the rules specifically for Fuyuki war" such as Assassin always being Hassan" for "These are the absolute rules for all things". If you've read all the grail war stories to date, the minor rules can change, but the overall rules remain the same. Andersen in chapter 4 of FGO explains how different grail wars can have different rules and why, and how they're like different genres on the same idea, but have different basis to reach the same result. That's not a retcon, servants summoned under the Fuyuki system still don't remember things, which is something we see in FGO during events like the Zero event.

Pretty much any example of "retcons" can be explained with that alone, Chaldea system works differently, it doesn't have the exact same rules as Fuyuki from the start. They explain in passing how Chaldea system works; creating a saint graph for servants, and filling it with blue particles, it does not use the throne. Rather Chaldea system just records servants you come across manually.

>" wtf user!?!?! you said he didn't have ea AHHHHHHHHH!!!"

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>Top Tier Saber
>Lethal joke character complimented by allies and enemies alike
>Is actually afraid of piss poor servant Kojiro Sasaki
>Dies by his blade
Is this another Shirou VS Gilgamesh situation?

Why does it have such shit reviews?

>Musashi who is only a living human at that point
>Fought a gauntlet of ten Japanese servants who were super buffed and immortal
>By the end of it she's fucked up, missing an eye, dying
>At that point she's jumped by Koijirou who is in peak condition and hasn't fought anyone
>Even at her worst and him at his best, the best result he could ever hope for according to the text is a draw, but its stated he loses and even admits defeat
>She then suffers from her injuries from all the fights in a row and the smoke filling the room and passes out

Always amuses me that Koijirou fags who haven't' actually read that moment think its a win. Its so heavily biased towards giving him every advantage and he still has no chance, which only wanks her further.

Yep. Sounds like Shirou VS Gil alright.

>Fought a gauntlet of ten Japanese servants who were super buffed and immortal
While she herself was given a super special sword in order to actually harm the servants.
The real bullshit of Shimous though, is Muramasa who managed to cut down Amakusa because of a stupid word play.

gil won in the end

Yeah, but he doesn't remember it. Really he doesn't have to since his GoB automatically has the original (anything) in it. Why? Literally because he's an asshole that stole anything new anyone invented.

Hold up are the LN’s good?

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I'd fight just to meet him and maybe lick his sweat

Chaldea's system working differently doesn't explain how a writer can somehow gain access to the Throne of Heroes (because you do need to become a Heroic Spirit before being able to be summoned as a Servant, you can't meet a Servant who isn't a Heroic Spirit and record him),
or how pseudo-servants have any power at all since they are merely possessing a human body and thus shouldn't have powers that goes beyond their host capabilities since magic circuits are tied to the body (or they'd just fry their magic circuits). Tohsaka is a powerful mage, but not powerful to the point of launching Ishtar's Noble Phantasm.

It doesn't explain either where the magic energy for all these grails comes from. A grail is only a vessel, it doesn't have any power on it's own. It can only become powerful if a ritual is used to feed it a fuck ton of magical energy.
Yet, somehow, everyone has a grail now. Not only that, but they also all look the same for some reason.

>doesn't explain how a writer can somehow gain access to the Throne
Throne isn't that picky. The Throne on its own doesn't explicitly favor combat. You simply need enough fame and a significant accomplishment.

>Tohsaka is a powerful mage, but not powerful to the point of launching Ishtar's Noble Phantasm.
The human host doesn't need to be powerful or special, they just need to be a physical body. Circuits are tied to the soul, so Ishtar's circuits would overwrite Rin's. Basically, the human host just serves as a way to get around the limitations of the Servant System. Ishtar would be at that level regardless of whose body she was inhabiting. For Pseudo-Servants, personality is way more important than the body. The body can be anything so long as the personality was a good fit.

>It doesn't explain either where the magic energy for all these grails comes from.
Most of the Grails were created by Goetia. As a Beast-class Servant, he can easily fill a Grail or seven. Remember, the original Holy Grail from Fate/Prototype was actually designed to be a conduit for the Beast. Beasts have always been tied to Holy Grails. The rest were just formed due to a heavy accumulation of magical energy, since that really is all a Grail is. Also, it's implied that the Fantasy Trees created by the Alien God utilize the process that's used to create Holy Grails. That's why when a Fantasy Tree is destroyed, they produce a Holy Grail.

They don't all necessarily look the same; it's just that the artists couldn't be bothered to draw more than one stock image for Grails. As for why all Holy Grails are cups, I couldn't tell you. The idea of turning super-excess magical energy generators into cups seems to stretch as far back as in Gilgamesh's time, long before Christ was ever born. The Cup of Christ probably just utilizes that concept just on a greater scale.

Also, something to keep in mind about Grails: They're only impressive from a MODERN PERSPECTIVE. Prior to the rise of the Age of Man, it would have been much easier to produce one. Not that they'd be super common or anything even then, but if anyone could produce multiple grails, it's the King of Mages.

>Throne isn't that picky. The Throne on its own doesn't explicitly favor combat. You simply need enough fame and a significant accomplishment.
Never mentionned in FSN. In fact there's even a point made that killing a lot of people can be a perfectly fine way to access it, it's always hinted that the person must have some fighting or magical affinity. Angry Manjew being the exception because he is named after a god.

Circuits aren't tied to the soul, they are tied to the body. In the HF epilogue it's explicitely said that Shirou's new body has shitty magical circuits due to it being a marionette. If it was tied to the soul, he would have been just fine.

So Goetia have enough energy to fill a grail but somehow can't use Sorceries ? Nothing in FGO says that he did fill those grails.

They all look the same. If they are shown to be the same, then they look the same. If they don't want them to look the same, then they would have drawn them differently and that's not the case. Hell they even could have gone the FSN route and have a person serving as one grail, no need for new assets there. Yet they didn't.
Goetia isn't the King of Mages. However it's true that making grails would be much easier in the past. The issue is there isn't even one line saying that he created a fuck ton of grails during the Classical times.

>Circuits aren't tied to the soul, they are tied to the body. In the HF epilogue it's explicitely said that Shirou's new body has shitty magical circuits due to it being a marionette. If it was tied to the soul, he would have been just fine.
The soul overwrites the body. The puppet body wouldn't have had any magic circuits. After Shirou's soul was placed in it, he's slowly recovering the use of his circuits. The body's not optimized for him, but eventually he'll be fine.

>So Goetia have enough energy to fill a grail but somehow can't use Sorceries ?
The Five Great Magics only exist in the Age of Man. They didn't exist in the Age of Gods. The First Magic was discovered shortly after Solomon's death.

>If they don't want them to look the same, then they would have drawn them differently and that's not the case.
That's a waste of time and money for something so pointless.

>Hell they even could have gone the FSN route and have a person serving as one grail, no need for new assets there. Yet they didn't.
Having multiple grails are a gameplay feature as well. You can use the grails to power up Servants.

>Goetia isn't the King of Mages.
Goetia was using the body of the King of Mages, so he can do most of the same things.

>The issue is there isn't even one line saying that he created a fuck ton of grails during the Classical times.
There's no reason he couldn't. If a bunch of magi in modern times can create a reasonably functioning Grail, then the King of Mages should easily be able to do so. Medea herself calls the grail child's play. As long as you have the power and know-how, it should be possible to produce a grail.

Grails have always existed since ancient times. In fact, we've known ever since Fate/stay night that there have been dozens of Grails across human history. It's a minor detail that's overlooked, but even the Church has a couple Grails locked up back at their HQ.

>Goetia was using the body of the King of Mages, so he can do most of the same things.
If magic circuits are tied to the soul then obviously he can't. However if it's tied to the body then he could.
>The Five Great Magics only exist in the Age of Man. They didn't exist in the Age of Gods. The First Magic was discovered shortly after Solomon's death.
The Five Great Magics are a mere attempt at reproducing shit that was possible in the Age of the Gods. They didn't exist back then because they weren't necessary. If Goetia had as much magical energy on his own as you said and the know-how of Solomon, they he could have simply pulled magical energy from other dimensions rather than going through his overly complicated plan of trying to destroy Humanity in several different periods and use that to use Humanity as fuel.
>That's a waste of time and money for something so pointless.
What you see is what you get. It doesn't matter for what reason they did something, what matters is that it exists. Grails are never even DESCRIBED to look different from each other in FGO. And thinking that they did it for budget reasons when we're talking about a gacha game that's making a crazy amount of money is laughable.
It doesn't cost much to make 10+ different icons.
>Having multiple grails are a gameplay feature as well. You can use the grails to power up Servants.
Yes and ? People servings as grails become unconscious once they are full. It can easily be made into an item to use to upgrade servants.

Yes because the Grail IS "child's play". What isn't "child's play" is gathering the amount of magical energy necessary to power it up. Which is arguably easier during Medea's time, but it's still a huge amount of energy. And yes there are several grails, just like we have several nuclear weapons. You can't just pull something as potent as a grail out of nowhere and not explain where it came from. If one of the grail kept by the Church were to ever be used in a story, I'd expect it's origin to be explained it two sentences at the very least.
Also Medea is a pretentious bitch. If it was that easy she would have made her own.

kill yourselves you fucking chuuni losers

>The Five Great Magics are a mere attempt at reproducing shit that was possible in the Age of the Gods.
Nope. Don't know where you got this idea.

>Yes because the Grail IS "child's play". What isn't "child's play" is gathering the amount of magical energy necessary to power it up.
Again, Beast. They can do crazy bullshit. Each of Solomon's grails is basically a container for one of the 72 Demon God Pillars. That means a Holy Grail is equivalent to at least one Demon God Pillar. Understand? Goetia can easily make seventy-two of these things at minimum.

>Also Medea is a pretentious bitch. If it was that easy she would have made her own.
Takes time and resources that aren't available in the Age of Man. If it had been in the Age of Gods, she could have easily made a Grail or two. She's that talented.

That Apoc backstory, is that in the LN or in Apocrypha Materials?

>Camelot Zero
Every time I start to "catch up" on Fate stories Nasu and company hit me with even MORE shit.
Thanks for letting me know about that user

Who does Nasu have a bigger erection for at this point, Musashi or Nero??

Didn't Caster Gil(non Heroic spirit) die and come back as Archer Gil (Heroic Spirit) for that shot?

>Nope. Don't know where you got this idea.
Mahou Tsukai no Yoru. To be fait I got things a bit mixed up but see pic related. In this scene Aoko explains what True Magic is, and she explains that in ye olde times old mages discovered True Magic all over the place, but doing so they inadvertently closed the "way" to these True Magic. Goetia is immortal and has incredible magic abilities, surely discovering how to pull mana from other dimensions would have been a much easier route for him.
>Again, Beast. They can do crazy bullshit. Each of Solomon's grails is basically a container for one of the 72 Demon God Pillars. That means a Holy Grail is equivalent to at least one Demon God Pillar. Understand? Goetia can easily make seventy-two of these things at minimum.
Yet he never use that power to put in place a much easier plan : pulling infinite magical energy from other dimensions.
>Takes time and resources that aren't available in the Age of Man. If it had been in the Age of Gods, she could have easily made a Grail or two. She's that talented.
And yet she didn't, even though it would have allowed her to fulfill her wish while she was alive. A wish she's willing to be summoned in order to fight for.
I don't know user, I think she's just bragging.

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Don't worry bro, you'll have Grand Saber Musashi vs Beast Whore of Babylon Nero, bro.

if Lancer Cù wasn't such a jobber, could Gáe Bolg kill Gil?

The LN
canonrap.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/p281-fa3-3-07/
>As the ritual of the Holy Grail War and its derivatives were repeated time and again, a number of strategies became established among its participants. It became common practices to prioritize the defeat of the Masters first – and to stay most on guard, not against the three knight Classes beginning with Saber, but the Assassin Servants.
>There were even anecdotes that, in one particular offshoot Holy Grail War, the Master who summoned Assassin ended the War in just three days. As such, all Masters began desperately shoring up their defenses against Assassins.

The Five Magics as they are didn't exist back in the Age of Gods. Magi in those days were capable of performing spells close to what modern magi would consider true magic, but it wasn't the same. Shit like Kaleidoscope and Heaven's Feel didn't exist in those days. There was no known way to cross into parallel worlds or materialize the soul. These concepts didn't exist back then.

When someone says that all thaumaturgy was magic back in the olden days, it doesn't mean any magus could just cross into a different dimension. In fact, your pic related outright confirms this: Due to the proliferation of such powerful mystery back in the Age of Gods, it was IMPOSSIBLE to find and use the Five Great Magics of the Age of Man.

Again, I must point this out: The First Magic was only discovered AFTER Solomon's death. It did NOT exist prior.

>And yet she didn't, even though it would have allowed her to fulfill her wish while she was alive. A wish she's willing to be summoned in order to fight for.
It wouldn't. A massive amount of mana wouldn't have granted her her wish. Her wish isn't something she can obtain with brute force. Her wish was for happiness. You can't buy happiness with a limitless mana battery any more than you can with money. At least, not the happiness she sought.

How retarded. That implies that the other Masters only ever summoned the shittiest Servants who can't even protect their Master against an assassination or two.

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Presence Concealment is no joke.

And? An ace Servant would still be able to defend against that. You think they didn't have assassins back then? Why do you think the Hassans were so powerless against the Knights of the Round?

its not servant vs servant, all you have to do is kill a human. There will always be a time when a human is unguarded without their servant. If the servant is fighting another servant, its pretty much guaranteed the master is open for example.

>go sneakylike
>shank enemy master
>enemy servant without independent action evaporates
You're using your assassin wrong if have them enter in a pissing contest, especially with unga bunga classes.

Because you're not defending against just 1 servant. It's a battle royale. Your servant could be duking out against another servant who is also strong. An assassin can simply take advantage of that and kill the human master at that time.
>Why do you think the Hassans were so powerless against the Knights of the Round?
The whole point of summoning assassin is that you're avoiding direct confrontation and just target the weak human. Why are you bringing up Hassans vs the Knights? Lion King doesn't need protection herself since she's not a feeble human. That's the point.

An ace Servant would still be able to prepare for that. You think Cu Chulainn or Karna would lose their Master to a mere Assassin? Unless that Assassin is King Hassan, a truly ace Servant would foil any assassination attempts.

youtu.be/OfN8n4lH6pY

Many heroes have fulfilled the roles of bodyguards. If they can't protect their Master against an assassin, then they have zero worth as heroes. Completely, absolutely worthless.

You are exactly the sort of person who will get Fastwheel'd or Tokiomi'd in a Grail War.

Why would I? I'd keep my Servant at my side at all times. I'd never be caught dead in a situation where my Servant couldn't protect me in an instant.

>friend tells me to watch Zero first since it's a prequel
>enjoyed Zero
>watch Fate Stay Night 2006
>turns out Zero actually retconned a bunch of stuff
>and actually FSN feels like garbage since Zero contradicts the shit that happened and FSN is somewhat doodoo anyway
did I get filtered?

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I still dont know what heavens feel actually is

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Third Magic, Materialization of the Soul. Basically frees you from the restraints of the body and renders your soul immune to decay. The original purpose of the Holy Grail War ritual was to inflict that magic on the whole of humanity.

desu for gill grail war's are like playing a game
why would he tryhard if he can just have some fun since its not like he cares about grail

Why can't people figure this shit out? Gilgamesh goes after saber in fate because kotomine was dealing with the grail shit for him so he has time to fuck about.

Priest loses his base of operations early in UBW so Gilgamesh has to ignore saber and put in the work in his stead.

Hold up, WHAT?

But he outright stated the moment the mud of the grail poured is the first time anyone found what lies inside the grail.

There's no way he could have a Grail because it wasn't an ancient treasure. It's purely manmade through magical tech.
Just like Arthuria's Avalon

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Name an actual example of him doing this in F/SN

A Grail is just a nearly limitless mana battery. They're not common, but there have been enough across history for Gil to have one or two. From his perspective, it's nothing but an amusing trinket.

GoB contains everything that humans have and will create. From a rice cooker to a FTL spaceship.

He don't have UBW though

Can you even 'own' a Reality Marble?

Obviously not, UBW is bootleg GoB, theres no need to have it when you have the original.

Reminder that Gil is super smart and was able to beat Rani at chess having never played the game before.

wait, i thought the issue with UBW was that it was in the Gate, but he couldn't use it since Gil isn't a mage.

He never used things from far future. Even from that future where servants are literally Pokémon while every human is archmage level.

Then why is he so stupid most of the time?

yes, now read the vn

It's informed ability like charisma of Artoria.

No. It's not a bootleg - it's a counter
Gate of Babylon has 1 per treasure, UBW can mass produce anything that the mage copied.

A warehouse vs a factory

That's not in this timeline. If it were, it'd be pruned. Whatever that timelime is, it's either gonna get pruned soon or it's not part of Fate's Panhistory.

In same extella Karna himself said that they could stand a chance against Gil only if they are team up against him.

what? avalon was not manmade, it was made by the faeries

This makes zero fucking sense. If it was true he would summon some future laser satellite and murder everyone in 5 minutes.

Literally the "2smart4school" kid, except replace smart with strong and it's actually true not just some 110IQ edgelord thinking he's 160IQ.

Pic related really exemplifies Gil.

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That's boring.

Most of the masters in zero were fucking stupid if you thought about their strategies for more the 5 secondarys.

It really isn't as smart as people think it is.

Zero is dumb as fuck.

And spamming GoB swords isn't?

If an enemy can't get through the GoB spam, they're not worth his time. Swordspam is the apperizer. Get through it and you can have the main course.

He never ever used anything from the future even when getting raped like with True Archer. It's a dumb piece of lore that was never used.

Never happened. It's always GoB spam even when he's losing.

>80 to 100 hours to do everything
nah I don't care that much

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Not true. Against Saber, he was going all out. Bringing out different weapons one after another, using swordspam as backup.

Assuming Gil is serious for once in his life, and he's his peak self, the only ones who stand a chance are beasts and grands, and probably not even all of the latter.
Even assuming CasGil couldn't defeat her, which is doubtful since he obviously had more up his sleeve than he showed, his younger self would show up like he did against Tiamat and then Quetz would get destroyed without even using Ea.

>He's a direct counter to Gil
HOW do you people still not understand UBW? It's been almost 2 decades how can you not understand the point with Shirou fighting Gil instead of Archer? Why are you so stupid?

The whole point was that Gil would not take Shirou seriously allowing him to have a chance. If Archer had fought Gil instead, Gil would just have pulled Ea (or a multitude of other items that could dissipate UBW) and that'd be the end of it.

2006 is a fucking awful adaptation and
>Watch

No you faggot read the VN

Then don't watch F/SN in any capacity.
We don't want anymore of you people thanks.

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>Pull out Ea against a mere Faker
lol

just finished the vn and just got done watching zero, why did zero have so much more interesting characters than the vn

FSN 2006 is not a direct sequel to anything or any route, its an anime that seemed popular at the time until the VN was actually translated and we learned how badly the anime butchered every single thing.

I doubt you actually did the things you said but if you were serious you'd at least have started by watching the newer anime UBW and HF, which are actual adaptions of the routes of the game.

No, the original purpose of the holy grail had three purposes, all three families had their own reasons for pursuing the grail and merely cooperated when it came to building it

Einzebern's = wanted to reclaim Heaven's Feel sorcery. They had that sorcery before in the past but it became lost to them. They did not want to cast it on the world, that's what Amakusa Shirou wanted, which is entirely different, they just wanted it back after losing it. Ironically Ilya reclaimed it right before she shut down the grail war forever in a certain route.

Matou = create utopia using the grail to reach the root

Tohsaka = use the grail to reach the root for their own honor.

And even then, really there was no exact purpose of the grail war. It was just a theory that Zelretch gave to his pupils to see if they could do it in a sense.

>He never used things from far future.
He did at the end of CCC. Says that he only tries to use things from his time period, but he has modern gadgets as well. GoB is the conceptualization of human wisdom, the first anything that humans build gets added to it.

So he just has crappy prototypes of future stuff.

That's just your coping headcanon. They are stated to be better.

In Japan, prototypes are actually considered the superior version, its the version that you pumped everything into to prove that it works. Everything after the prototype is just mass produced and cuts corners.

>Kiara Sessyoin: That's...! Even though you were flung to the edge of the galaxy......! Even if this is a conceptual space, you shouldn't have been able to cross that distance in an instant! How were you able to fly faster than light?
>Gilgamesh: You idiot, did you think I wouldn't have a ship of light among my treasures? Just because I like the classics doesn't mean I don't keep up with recent developments. If there is a technique that sends somebody to the edges of space, then there will be a Noble Phantasm corresponding to it.

He doesn't like using items from beyond his time period, but he can do it if he's forced.

nasu can't write

Holy Grails existed prior to that. The Einzberns did not invent Holy Grails.

He wrote it, so it's his own fault really.

So dude with spaceships loses to japanes ginger. This shit is even dumber than I thought.

Either way what you're trying to say is a lie. Grails have existed since Babylon. Their purpose was never "to inflict Heaven's Feel upon the entire world". You're trying to say "you got one fact wrong according to me so its all wrong" type of argumentation, but my fact was not wrong, and the original statement you said is still wrong.

Nah, you just missed the fucking point of the story
Reason Gilgamehs lost isn't because he's weaker, or how much powers he had. He lost because he was too prideful to use those powers seriously.
Gilgamesh's flaw has always been his pride, not his lack of power. Somehow people misinterpreted this over time, thinking he lost because he was weaker. The instant he refused to draw Ea, he admitted defeat due to pride.

It is stated in canon to be the oldest and strongest Noble Phantasm ever held by humans. So yes, this makes it stronger than Excalibur.

Oh Gilcucks

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By numbers Excalibur is about 1200, while Ea is roughly 4000+

Genius with spaceships, foresight and enough skill in melee combat to fight top tier Sabers.

Yet:
>Gil isn't a Grand Servant
>the Grand Saber wields Excalibur
Umm, Gilkeks?

The reason the Einzberns made their Holy Grail is for that purpose. Functionally, the Einzbern Grail is identical to any other Grail: it's a resource of nearly endless mana with a rudimentary artificial intelligence that grants wishes. If all had gone according to plan, the Einzberns would have used the Grail to punch a hole into the Root, retrieving the Third Magic by brute force. This was the main part of the plan. Then, they would use the wish-granting function of the Grail to inflict the Third Magic on all of humanity.

This is what the Einzberns and Makiri were originally after.

>Gil is the strongest servant
>gets defeated by Liz and gets pierced in the dick by her spear
OH NO NO NO.

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Remember that Gilgamesh was originally gathered by the gods of the world to pull humanity back to the gods. But he turned on them and sided with humans instead. So it's probably theoretically plausible that some form of Gilgamesh that sided with the gods/Gaia over humans/Alaya might become an obstacle that humanity would have to slay in order for human order to progress.

Weapons only get better as time goes on. The concept that an older weapon is better is inherently wrong.

Is it confirmed?

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Liz is the strongest being in Nasuverse! LIZ LOVE

That Gil has Excalibur and he is the confirmed Grand Saber? Yes!

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Magical weapons don't, though. Every time a new version of a Noble Phantasm is created, it loses some mystery. Merodach is the oldest so it has the highest concentration of mystery. Caliburn came later so it has less mystery, making it weaker.

>This is what gilkeks believe

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>Gil is a dicklet

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Somebody post smug 2006 shirou I require it for my collection

He has fought Enkidu in melee, who is superior to Saber in every way.

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This is what hack Nasu wants people to believe.

>The First Magic was discovered shortly after Solomon's death.
Per Case Files, the user of the First Magic was born the night that BC became AD.

>JETS appears in LB6
>he KoO Excalibur and uses it to exterminate the LB King
>KoO Ea and dual wields it against AYYLMAO
>he becomes the Grand Saber and Grand Berserker
>LB7 is kneels and prunes itself
>AYYLMAO concedes and restores proper human history

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So jesus

Sounds fishy. Jesus's miracles being magic kinda undermines his divinity.

>gets defeated by Liz in FGO
LIZ LOVE!

>英雄王が数多持つ財宝の最秘奥。
>刀身部分の三つの石板はそれぞれ天・地・冥界を意味し、すなわち宇宙を表しているともいえ、その影響力は対峙する者の五体どころか世界そのものに及ぶ。
>人という種が手にした最強最古の宝具である。
The last line is the most important. It is the strongest and oldest Noble Phantasm humans have ever possessed.

Not really, people get Divinity just from meeting him or being related to him, and if angels can open paths to the Root, as seems to be the case when magi tortured one into doing it and got themselves blown up when God smite them through the hole, God's throne/home/place might be linked with the Root somehow. All we can do is speculate, but there's something else going on there that Nasu is being very cagey about.

true magic is obtained by reaching the root, the big g IS probably connected to the root, so the theory is plausible

As long as the bow is used as a delivery mechanism for swords, it counts.

Bow isn't recorded in UBW. Archer probably had a bow custom-made and had every bit of it carefully commited to memory. UBW auto-records swords and even shields, but not bows. He has to make those the hard way.

>Someone who's mastered their style won't ever lose to a pale imitation of someone elses fighting style that is nowhere near mastery since its a poor copy,

Which is actually bullshit.
Real combat is a lot down to reflexesand luck and knowing a dozen combat styles with dozens of different weapons over mastering one is actually pretty useful.

>FGO retcons tons of shit stop being stupid
list what it retcons then

These are superhuman monsters though.

>what went wrong?
being a fujobait character in a garbage franchise

His ego is his biggest weakness. Also UBW was a situational counter against him.

Majikoi. A Certain Magical Index.

>Saber wasn't
Hi, secondary.

That speaks more about Gilgamesh than about Ea.

Nice try, but Grand Saber is already taken.

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No one said the Grand Saber wields Excalibur.

>wanting to be right next to your servant as Hercules is bashing his weapon down on it

Sure user

Artoria's been irrelevant for the entirety of FGO though
It's going to be some literal who who held Excalibur briefly in some 900 year old medieval text.

>gets eaten by wormslut

OH NO NO NO!

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Reminder:

>He simply cannot be controlled. In fact Gilgamesh cannot be blackened. After being devoured by the Grail, Sakura converted Gilgamesh into mana in haste because she was afraid that Gilgamesh might tear her up from the inside if she does not digest him. However, His Majesty was very hard to digest, so “Angra Mainyu” must have been plagued by belly-ache (laughs).

If he hadn't been immediately broken down into mana, he would have come blasting right back out of her in Alien chest-burster style, unharmed.

There's probably a timeline, in fact, where he does exactly that, we just don't see it.

Try not to cope too hard when you're wrong, again.

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Gil and Babylonia was his real living self he wasn't stuck under a class container. He couldn't use Ea most likely because his body was heavily overtaxed trying to keep uruk safe(he barely slept). And since he had given away his NPs to the citizens Ea would have been weaker since it's power out put is also affected by the contents of GoB

This would make sense if he lost once. He gets fucked in every route.

>dies to inbred bastard child

Tch, nothin personal ol' man!

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>HUWAWA-SAMA PLEASE FORGIVE ME PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NOOOOOOOOO

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He even has a spaceship

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>dies
Nice meme.

>the whole interlude is the other characters calling Enkidu out about his lies
It was nice desu.

Reminder Mordred would have been a good boy with Saber Prototype since he'd satisfy her Freudian penis envy.

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reading the 2nd one in the middle of the night in a dark room was a mistake

but that's the ghost girl from KnK?

Because of the Huwawa stuff?

He's an obstacle, not a real character unless the author decides to write an interesting one.

the part when Humbaba asked "who are you"
actually it would have done nothing to me had it been actual horror game or movie but as it isn't, I didn't expect the glitching part and the complete silence outside of heart beating sounds kinda spooked me out

I have only seens screencaps of it and read some translations but it did creep out players because they were not expecting it as you said.

>Cant even beat an A ranked Excalibur with Ea

Reminder that Mordred wants to have her ass ridden hard into the ground.

*his

Mordred always leaves herself open to getting dicked down by Ritsuka.

Gil qualifies as a Grand Caster, but does he also qualify as a Grand Archer?

We don't know that he qualifies as Grand Caster actually. We know that he fulfills at least one of the requirements to be a Grand Caster: namely, he has Clairvoyance of sufficient magnitude.

We don't know what all the other requirements are, so he may not meet them all. It does appear that Grand Caster doesn't necessarily have to be fantastic at magecraft (e.g. Merlin is not actually a very good mage, most of his talent is in illusions and things from his incubi heritage backed up by Avalon's mana supply), so Gilgamesh likely wouldn't be disqualified for not being a true magus, but there could be other requirements that do rule him out.

>d-doesn't count...!

He pretty much won in F/Z, but he's a retard who doesn't even want the grail and refuses to take anyone seriously enough.

Write an essay on why I need the grail and deserve it.