Fuck

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Are demon lords a good addition to an isekai setting or are they too cliche?

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Way too fucking cliche. It's another Dragon Quest trope, which I don't even think was even that common in Dragon Quest, that's used by bad writers as a lazy shorthand for "This person is bad". There is nothing interesting or fun about a demon lord that isn't at least somewhat of a subversion. It lacks both the menace and scale of a threat like Sauron, but also the humanity of a smaller more personal villain.

I've only played the first 4 DQ games and Builders and all have what can be considered a "Demon Lord". Just change Demon to Dragon or Monster, but the trope is the same.

I guess that's true. Although at the very least some of them have nothing to do with hell or the underworld.

Either way though, it works in Dragon Quest because it makes for good final boss forder. Even in those games, they are rarely the most interesting or memorable villains.

I don't like the Japanese style demons (who are just magical/monstrous humans who compete for the same planet as humans) much. I prefer traditional, objectively evil demons like you'd find in the abyss of Dungeons & Dragons. But I suppose it makes little sense for Japanese (and Chinese) stories to have hells/abyss and such planes of existence when they all work around reincarnation instead of some sort of afterlife.

not enough isekai justify their existence
they're western equivalent Dark Lords were usually Satan/Hitler allegories, but a lot of isekai is just "final boss from out of nowhere"

Because, again, that's basically what they are in Dragon Quest. And Isekai loves to suck that games cock despite not understanding why it worked as a story.

I agree, there should be a variety like liches, dragons, outsiders vengeful cucked teenagers

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>Liches.
Wizards in general make good villains.

>Dragons.
Bit overdone, but sure that can work.

>outsiders vengeful cucked teenagers
We need more Isekai where the villain is a actual foil to the hero, so yes.

How would you Demon King?

I would take the Satan metaphor and make them a fallen isekai'd. A fucking edgelord from a previous revenge isekai that brought the world to the brink that the gods sent the MC to have a chance against.

>Primordial Gods fight for power and control
>Losing side summons Hero from another world
>Brands opposition Demon Lords
>Curses Hero to block him from realizing this
>Once he's 404 them all - the curse comes undone and he realizes what he did, how he was played
>Swears revenge, turns into true Demon Lord

Rinse and repeat.

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Though there are some like that has some justification.
Demon kings (literally translated as Magic kings) as conduits of the world at least take from A mythology.

>How would you Demon King?
Actually have them represent something other than just EEEEEEEEEVIL! If you want to make the villain the personification of evil, then you need to ask yourself what exactly it means to be evil.

In that aspect, I kind of disagree with the notion that you should have him as a Satan Metaphor. Since the evil Lucifer represents is ultimately simply not listening to people higher in the hierarchy than you. Which doesn't really work for most modern audiences, who tend to idealize rebellion and freedom.

I would Ainz.

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Yeah, if all the previous summoned heroes were exceptional people in life and turned into megalomaniac demon kings when they got cheats and magic on top of that, it would make sense to summon a humble Japanese schoolboy who is the opposite of exceptional for a change.

Hence why dark lords move to Hitler allegories. More secular that way. though Hitler might not mean as much to Japan as America or England

I've thought about this several times. I can't stand going through any isekai so there has to be at least one where the big bad is something along the lines of
>getting isekai'd is a phenomenon this world is just used to
>edgelord decides to wreak havoc and becomes the big threat to the world
>MC is someone that actually has the balls to go up against that kind of threat
But I'd probably make it so that the reveal of him being a fallen isekai comes later.

so konosuba

I loved MT who had various version of Demon Kings

Badigadi represents the standard DQ Demon King
Kishirika represents the fetishistic Demon King
and Laplace represents the outright satan allegory "Evil Outsider" Dark Lord

Hitler allegories can work, yes. The evil he commited was very human as well, which makes it a lot more relatable.

Not sure if it would work as well for Japan. But then again, Japan kind of has a weird relationship with authority anyway.

That is the entire plot of KonoSuba.

I kind of like the idea of the villain being the person behind the phenomenon. But then, I guess that's basically just Touhou.

And of course the one that does it is the one I can't fucking stand.
Bravo, Nippon.

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Really Satan is the embodiment of pic related
It works when you depict him not as a freedom fighter but as an asshole who destroys a good thing due to his own narcissism.

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>How would you Demon King?
Not going into detail about the greater world building, an example for an isekai demon king villain could be something like this:

As a worldly threat I would make the demon king someone who made pacts with demons and has the goal to rip their world from the material plane of existence with all the souls native to it and make it another layer of the Abyss, which would ultimately doom all the souls to eternal damnation or something. This would make the demon king a quasi-deity on this layer of the Abyss, i.e. a Demon Lord. Assuming a typical isekai setup where souls are reincarnated, I would make his main motivation that he wishes to find the soul of someone (or multiple people) who was important to him and then live with them forever.

I've always kind of liked the SMT version of Lucifer. Who is a freedom fighter, but also a massively self serving one whose idea of freedom isn't actually all that good.

I once thought of a medieval world of reverse gender roles where The world was made by a feminazi god to punish an incel who argued "If I was female it would be easy modo!" incel gets humiliated and abused constantly in that world and eventually becomes the demon king, blocks off the goddess's influence and makes legions of rape-happy monster girls to cuck the populous

Eventually a scumbag MC is sent to defeat the demon king though not without being looked down on, gangraped, and exiled from the kingdom for being a harlot

>How would you Demon King?
Like this

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always sexy women or lolis

rhyme? reason? purpose? origin? fuck that! isekai is just an excuse to fantasy harem anyway and "demon king" is just another one of those excuses

demon lord = slandered isekaifag

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Someone who's fucking tired and has spent their entire life with a rivalry with someone who was more successful but less talented than they were out of sheer luck. Reverse halo effect happened and that's why people call them a demon lord

I want one where the Demon king is an isekai'd but the hero is a native

no not a "I reincarnated into a demon king" scenario, no an OPMC that just starts going mad with power so much a prophecy appears about a native taking him down

It peeves me to no end that nobody has made a modern version of dungeon keeper. I want a game where I get to be a chill demon lord and build a nice base for people to die in

nips do
but MC always goes outside in 10-20 chapters

>I want one where the Demon king is an isekai'd but the hero is a native
>no not a "I reincarnated into a demon king" scenario, no an OPMC that just starts going mad with power so much a prophecy appears about a native taking him down
Technically, Death Mage would qualify, wouldn't it?

>cuckshit

is there a prophecy about the cuck's downfall?