Kleros juror economics make no sense?

After reading the Kleros whitepaper and looking into the dApps offered, I was genuinely curious about becoming a juror... but I feel like I am missing something here because the risk / reward (and time) makes absolutely no sense to me klerosboard.com/odds/

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>need to stake 8K USD to have an 11% chance of being selected as a juror for the most active dispute category (Curation)
> reward is $3.42 but you could lose ~$68 if you didn't vote in the majority

How is this model feasible? Who tf is actually doing this and has insight?

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I am interested in becoming a juror too, one who does the onboarding stuff, but I am not sure what it is I'd actually be doing there and there are no examples either :( and I am too scared of losing pnk coins
I hope a juror comes here and answers

>Who tf is actually doing this
look at the OP pic

I highly doubt pajeet would stake $8k USD to have an 11% shot at being selected to potentially make $3.42 lol.

This seems like something that would take time and effort to actually extract value from. But with the numbers I listed, I have no idea how it has been adopted by anyone frankly

Onboarding cases seem ideal right? Big problem though - there have been 0 onboarding cases in the past 30 days.

oh really, no onboarding cases in the last 30 days? that's sad :( But cases in general seem to be going up so hopefully we will get to do onboarding eventually and earn pnk coins

no he stakes $80 to make $0.0342

The pic I posted shows # of cases per category in the past 30 days. Maybe earning PNK this way is how the devs expected people to work their way up, as opposed to buying in the whole way? Idk I am just trying to understand the system

the odds to be selected as a juror scale with the amount staked. at the top you can see that the chart correlates to staking 100k PNK. If you were to stake $80, the chance of being selected as a juror would be like 0.0001%

>Maybe earning PNK this way is how the devs expected people to work their way up
perhaps that is the case and we just know about Kleros early because I don't see anywhere else talking about Kleros or PNK and the devs are working on a number of things. So we are just early, I think

The kleros ICO was in 2018, but im unsure how long it has been since the dApps have been live. It does seem like the dev team has a lot going on rn

To explain, the risk/reward balances out when you consider the probability of voting coherently each time - the disputes are usually pretty easy tbqh

nice trips

I wondered about this myself...they need to clarify this. The risk/reward ratio is based on your MINIMUM reward in PNK for coherent vote and MAXIMUM loss of PNK for non-coherent vote. Id just like to see it in practice how much would get lost for a non-coherent vote, Im not risking 5000 PNK right now.

Non-coherent jurors PNK lost is divided up and rewarded to coherent jurors.

What a stupid fucking idea

But if you need to stake nearly $10 USD of PNK to become a juror with a decent chance of being selected, doesn't the risk far outweigh the reward? Unless the redistributed PNK rewards from coherent voting is more substantial than the ETH payout? I mean from my example chart, you would need to be a coherent voter roughly 20 times in order to cover a single incoherent vote loss.

I have heard that most disputes are pretty easy yeah, but the amount needed to be selected is a pretty huge bottleneck at the current prices no? Especially when it would be near impossible to get selected for 20 cases at the current usage level

What is preventing people from all collectively just auto selecting something like.. “guilty” for example for every case in which everyone is majority.

the risk reward is max risk and minimum reward.

the problem is the devs havent defined what determines what % PNK is lost in each case. Does it depend on the number of jurors? I have no idea

Small claims courts are insanely backed up and this would also remove lawyer retaining fees from the picture. The jurors need to stake their position to be "employed" by the system so they have skin in the game... It actually seems like an incredibly good idea?

I’m currently staked in the onboarding court, but havent been picked yet as there arent any cases right now.
Im going to buy more PNK and re-stake my whole stack in curation to try and get selected as that seems to be the only place with action right now.

The guy’s math in isnt quite accurate. You get PNK and ETH for voting correctly, but if you vote wrong you only lose the portion of PNK you put up for risk. you dont lose ETH for wrong votes, only the gas fees to get your PNK onto the court.

You need to stake PNK on each case you are a juror for (ie, stake $68 PNK to make $3.50 if you vote in the majority). It would make no sense to just guess because you would never recover from itif you were wrong 1/20 times

For clarification, ive got about 47K PNK “staked” in the court, but in any particular case i’d presumably vote on i’m only risking about 1000 PNk

Sry I misread. If people who are jurors try to cheat the system and collectively say "guilty" then nobody would use the system, now would they. It would provide a return in the short run, but would obviously tank the value of the coin... which no juror would want because they have to stake a huge amount of PNK to be in the game

Thanks for chiming in, I was hoping an actual juror would appear at some point lol. 47k PNK isn't even halfway to hitting the amount of stake needed to join the curation court. How are you justifying the stake for such a low payout (even if it you do get 100% coherent votes). I am just trying to understand where the real value is in being a juror

reading the whitepaper im a bit confused...it says the formula for PNK lost is (total PNK being redistributed) x (min stake) x juror weight...someone explain please the math doesnt add up, im doing it wrong. Its under part 4.6 in the whitepaper

1. appeals court would be a new set of jurors and you can appeal at least 2 times

2. you would never know if the people you were colluding with were just scamming you to vote incoherently so they could get yr PNK. Incoherent jurors PNK lost is distrubuted among coherent jurors.

Thank you for the info fellas. I might go ahead and stake in the onboarding section and sit tight until something pops up. I'm going to go look now

meh fuck it im gonna go stake in curation right now its a small stake. just as a test to see.

alpha * min stake * juror weight (an integer, usually being 1 it appears). Alpha is a factor voted on by people holding governance tokens. So I think the easiest explanation is just that an incoherent vote will cause the juror to lose the minimum stake in most cases.

ahh...good job devs they did onboarding as a place for jurors and companies to test kleros only 1000 PNK min stake

12 FUCKING DOLLARS JUST TO STAKE MY LITTLE 1000 PNK ARE YOU KIDDING ME VITALIA

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