is simply the gamble of "it wont go to zero while I have it, it'll go to zero after I cash out". You're all very silly aren't you?
Reminder that every 'investment' in bitcoin
Joseph Evans
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Joseph Martin
yep you got me
Jace Diaz
yeah it's a ponzi but i'm in profit
Lincoln Nguyen
Tether is about to cause the most catastrophic rug-pull in human history.
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New information on the tether lawsuit:
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More information on Bitcoin:
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As of today, seven-day printing-rate of tether is $38 billion per annum.
I suspect that the CFTC knows that tether is a scam, but they won't audit it for the same reason that they won't audit the COMEX. Crypto is an Adam Back/Blockstream-created ponzi to split the anti-fiat community. The COMEX already would have gone bankrupt if our efforts had been fully concentrated on physical silver during these past ten years. Once fiat collapses, BTC becomes priced in gold, and all crypto (as being the fruit of the poisoned tree) immediately goes to zero.
"To overturn the history of gold is wishful thinking. Fully backed Gold and silver substitutes and circulating coins are practical and acceptable for 7bn transacting individuals. BTC will then have no role and sink to zero priced in gold." - Alasdair Macleod, 8 November 2020
BTC requires $100-fees and 3-day transaction times when even 0.1% of the world population attempts to use it as a currency; the only solution is to go through Blockstream’s second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do. Blockstream is controlled by the banks and the Bilderberg Group. Projects like BCH are not the answer, since they are just as liable to human corruption as BTC was.
Not only is BTC worthless as a currency, but gold-backed crypto already exists. We don't need BTC for anything.
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Also, gold-backed yuan and rubles will soon be used in the banking system.
Colton Lopez
it will never go to 0, it will continue going up as it becomes the world standard store of value and will fluctuate by no more than 1-2% yearly around a price of 5M.
Christopher Evans
ahahah
Michael Thompson
why are you here
Ethan Thompson
>he doesn't see the value in a hardcapped, infinitely divisible, mathematically provable, unstoppable, decentralized method of value storage and transfer with 24/7 uptime that's stateless, permissionless, borderless, and non-confiscatable, and is also hard and still-hardening money
Christopher White
>It's going to zero
>t. nocoiners and gold bugs every day for the last 12 years
You've literally had over a decade, lol. With that being said I'm also heavily bullish on silver (gold to a lesser extent, it's a great store of value to protect against inflation). Idk why people can't just accumulate both... They aren't really exclusionary assets.
Evan Diaz
That makes no sense. Nobody invests in something just because “it won’t go to zero”. People are buying because it is globally accepted as a store of value that cannot be controlled by a central bank and its being used as a hedge against inflation which we all know is coming after this absolutely insane money printing party.
Easton Phillips
because goldbugs are mad that bitcoin does their singular as-an-asset usecase better while doing a number of other things
Ethan Gomez
BTC isn't a hedge against the inevitable end-result of inflation, which is the collapse of the dollar. The world-reserve currency will be gold, not BTC in future, because BTC is not only intrinsically worthless but unusable as a currency. Whereas the modern banking system is right there, ready to go ahead with gold-backed rubles and yuan. We also have gold-backed cryptos like Kinesis.
Nathaniel Cooper
>The world-reserve currency will be gold, not BTC in future
Andrew Butler
>infinitely divisible
So is gold via gold-backed currencies (which China and Russia are preparing for) as well as allocated cryptocurrencies like Kinesis.
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>decentralized
Gold is truly decentralized. The world supply of BTC is technically concentrated in the hands of the miners, most of whom are in China. BTC is also only "decentralized," even by your standards, if you don't want to use it as a currency. As soon as you want to use it as a currency, you have to go through Blockchain's second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do.
> value storage
BTC has no intrinsic value, on one hand; on the other, no monetary value, because it's unusable as a currency. So there's no value to store.
> non-confiscatable
Gold in a Swiss vault is perfectly safe. Switzerland wasn't even invaded by Hitler, and has never confiscated gold. Whereas you can lose your keys to memory loss, dementia, a hardware failure, a thoughtless mistake, or torture.
>hard and still-hardening money
BTC isn't money. When fiat dies, gold will become money, not BTC. BTC will be priced in gold and instantly go to zero.
Landon Watson
>So is gold via gold-backed currencies (which China and Russia are preparing for) as well as allocated cryptocurrencies like Kinesis.
so if you attach fiat to it or borrow from bitcoin's technology gold can be infinitely divisible like btc inherently can? objectively, btc wins this round
>Gold is truly decentralized. The world supply of BTC is technically concentrated in the hands of the miners, most of whom are in China. BTC is also only "decentralized," even by your standards, if you don't want to use it as a currency. As soon as you want to use it as a currency, you have to go through Blockchain's second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do.
there are nearly 19 million bitcoin out there and miner production is a whopping 900 per day. the supply is primarily user controlled, and bitcoin is decentralized because transactions can be sent and coins stored with no central authority. Bitcoin's layer 2 is a work in progress and can easily be pseudonymous, the large majority of use is on layer 1.
>BTC has no intrinsic value, on one hand; on the other, no monetary value, because it's unusable as a currency. So there's no value to store.
I gave you a list of utilities that provide intrinsic value: the first and only 24/7 uptime stateless, permissionless, borderless network to transfer value. Also, bitcoin has a hardcapped supply and is infinitely divisible unlike gold, so over time the resulting lack of inflation will increase this value against fiat or, if you like, gold (which is inflationary)
>Gold in a Swiss vault is perfectly safe. Switzerland wasn't even {...}. Whereas you can lose your keys to {...}
how many times has gold been looted or stolen? you can store bitcoin yourself, in an innocuous flash drive or in your memory, to take up virtually or literally no space, while trusting no one. gold is hard to store and easily stolen, or requires you to trust bankers. Yes, bitcoin is something that requires a functioning brain
Ryder Roberts
>hard and still-hardening money
BTC isn't money. When fiat dies, gold will become money, not BTC. BTC will be priced in gold and instantly go to zero.
Bitcoin is more money than gold is because of the infinite divisibility and ease of transfer properties and is also a better hedge against fiat due to being hardcapped, and is also a better investment as it doesn't have a ten trillion dollar marketcap
Liam Sullivan
>so if you attach fiat to it or borrow from bitcoin's technology gold can be infinitely divisible like btc inherently can?
Blockchain isn't a BTC technology, but a technology which BTC uses.
Gold-backed currencies aren't fiat; fiat is money created out of thin air, backed by nothing. If a country allows convertibility of its currency into gold, that is no longer fiat money, but a gold substitute. In a post-fiat world, any country which defaults on gold-conversion will immediately see its currency go to zero.
Gold-backed cryptos like Kinesis are superior to BTC, because not only are they infinitely divisible and instantly transmittable, but also store intrinsic value.
>Bitcoin's layer 2 is a work in progress and can easily be pseudonymous, the large majority of use is on layer 1.
Even the Lightning Network has been estimated to be capable of accounting for the traffic of only 0.2% of the world population--then you run into exactly the same problems which you have without it. And the LN is perpetually "18 months away" and never implemented. And you get tracked on the LN--far less anonymous there than when than using basic BTC, and even on basic BTC you leave a digital footprint on the ledger which causes you to be tracked when you attempt to cash out.
By contrast, paying with a gold or silver coin allows 100% anonymity. You can "cash out" gold-backed currencies and gold-backed cryptos into real gold, but you can't do anything equivalent with BTC.
>stateless, permissionless, borderless network to transfer value
If the miners are all concentrated in China, BTC essentially isn't stateless; and even if it wasn't stateless, that's not particularly important. If you hold gold-backed cryptos which store their gold in different countries (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.), then you can achieve the same result, for all practical purposes. Besides, if you know that a country has the gold to back their currency, there's no risk in holding that currency.
Jordan Hall
There is no such thing as intrinsic value.
Gabriel Rodriguez
>how many times has gold been looted or stolen?
Vault-robberies are extremely rare. The bank of England, for example, has never had a robbery. If you hold your gold in a credible private vault, there's virtually no chance of losing it. Do a Google search and you will find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to find any modern instance of a private vault like Brinks or Loomis being robbed for its gold. By contrast, the list of crypto exchanges which have been hacked is so long that it would take thirty minutes simply to scroll through the mere names. Then the number of people who lost their keys to memory-loss, torture, natural disaster, hardware failure, etc., is very long.
>gold is hard to store and easily stolen, or requires you to trust bankers.
Gold isn't hard to store at all. Very easy to store, and you don't need to remember any keys. And when you use a private vault you're trusting a company, not a banker.
Lincoln Cruz
Whether you define value as objective or subjective, my argument doesn't change. Say that value is subjective and I will say that BTC doesn't have any non-monetary properties, besides speculation and gambling, which would cause most people to regard it as valuable; gold does.
Asher Allen
>Blockchain isn't a BTC technology, but a technology which BTC uses.
and anything using blockchain is borrowing from bitcoin, the first and most predominant user
>Gold-backed cryptos like Kinesis are superior to BTC, because not only are they infinitely divisible and instantly transmittable, but also store intrinsic value.
gold has no intrinsic value other than some industrial/commercial use, while bitcoin is better at every property you claim gives gold any value as an asset
>even on basic BTC you leave a digital footprint on the ledger which causes you to be tracked when you attempt to cash out
psuedonymous, if you're smart even without mixers and other services you can be user for all practical purposes
>You can "cash out" gold-backed currencies and gold-backed cryptos into real gold, but you can't do anything equivalent with BTC.
local bitcoins and p2p networks are as user or more than anything gold offers
>If the miners are all concentrated in China, BTC essentially isn't stateless; and even if it wasn't stateless, that's not particularly important.
the real power is in the nodes frankly, and if every miner's rig in china exploded tomorrow bitcoin would continue processing blocks
Nathan Mitchell
looted or stolen meaning personal storage, something you can do safely with bitcoin but not with gold. As always, bitcoin requires less trust. If you know your private key then no hardware failure or whatever can stop it
Hunter Long
>gold has no intrinsic value other than some industrial/commercial use
First of all, gold is incorruptible and perfectly malleable. Secondly, gold is the most prized ornamental metal in the world. Thirdly, the value of gold in industry is truly enormous. Electronics, medicine, dentistry. The only reason why we don't use it more often is precisely because it is so valuable--it is superior to other metals for many uses, but we make use of those ones instead because gold is too precious to waste.
>while bitcoin is better at every property you claim gives gold any value as an asset
As I point out in my earlier post, if you mean monetary properties, BTC is not superior to gold in that respect either. We can back currencies with gold right now (as China and Russia are, in fact, intending to do,) and use gold in the modern banking system, which sends any transaction immediately, large or small. Whereas BTC breaks down if even 0.01% of the world tries to use it as a currency, and even the LN could only account for 0.2% of the world population. BTC is not ready for a post-fiat world. It will fail to serve any purpose in that world. BTC also, as I say, lacks the privacy of gold, because it can't be cashed out and exchanged in physical form--everything is done on a public ledger. People from the Silk Road continue to be arrested to this today, and the celebrity Twitter hackers were caught within days.
>local bitcoins and p2p networks are as user or more than anything gold offers
Localbitcoins requires a full name, IP address, phone number, and exchanging of payment information.
Isaac Reed
In order to get your memorized key, somebody has every incentive to grab you off the street and exercise the most brutal torture on you--they can extract it within ten minutes. You can't get somebody's gold out of a vault that way.
Colton Peterson
>BTC does everything gold does better than gold can
The actual problem is that bitcoin is capped. Even Ethereum/Monero tail emission is 100x better than this. Assuming that we keep increasing the amount of refined gold by ~2% annually forever, the purchasing power of gold would go down 2% annually if all else is eqaull. So what does that have to do with bitcoin?
If we actually have free markets deciding money, people are going to keep the money that is going to be worth more tomorrow/is undervalued and spend the money that is going to be worth less tomrrow/is overvalued. Assuming that each person was 50% bitcoin maxi 50% goldbug, they would always spend their gold and save their bitcoins. This causes a situation where bitcoin is not used as a medium of exchange at all. Since bitcoin is increasing 0% annually (realistically falling since coins wallets will get forgotten and coins trapped in multisigs) the market value of bitcoin will always be expected to increase.And this is ignoring the obvious macro problem that a decreasing quantity of money is never good. The demand for money is going to increase A LOT as the third world becomes middle class. Gold alleviates a lot of this squeeze without having to trust a central authority.
Hudson Hernandez
yes, like I said, some industrial/commercial use
>We can back currencies with gold right now (as China and Russia are, in fact, intending to do,) and use gold in the modern banking system, which sends any transaction immediately, large or small.
not a monetary property of gold, you're extolling the convenience of greenbacks and digital currency with some gold allegedly sitting in a vault somewhere to back it. you could just as easily back currencies with bitcoin or literally anything.
>Whereas BTC breaks down if even 0.01% of the world tries to use it as a currency, and even the LN could only account for 0.2% of the world population. BTC is not ready for a post-fiat world. It will fail to serve any purpose in that world.
imagine if .01% of the world tried to use literal physical gold to transact with like 8th century arabia or something. The bitcoin network has never been meant to be the entire global financial system, but it will absorb a good deal of its value, and adoption will only increase.
>BTC also, as I say, lacks the privacy of gold, because it can't be cashed out and exchanged in physical form--everything is done on a public ledger.
a pseudonymous public ledger
>Localbitcoins requires a full name, IP address, phone number, and exchanging of payment information
that used to not be the case, but even so you can accomplish the same thing with other p2p networks without that information
Logan Perez
cope
Joshua Gray
Imagine telling someone about your cryptocurrency
Blake Williams
Why are you fags both double replying
Adrian Wright
>yes, like I said, some industrial/commercial use
"Some" won't do as a description. Besides having the best monetary properties of any metal, gold is perhaps the most intrinsically valuable metal in the world.
>>not a monetary property of gold, you're extolling the convenience of greenbacks and digital currency with some gold allegedly sitting in a vault somewhere to back it.
The gold in gold substitutes isn't "allegedly" sitting in a vault. The gold in Kinesis or any other credible gold-backed crypto is regularly audited, and, after the collapse of the dollar, and thus of fiat, any currency which refuses convertibility into gold will instantly go to zero. Nobody will accept a currency backed by Bitcoin; Bitcoin's only alleged use-case was to function as a currency, and now we know that it can't be used as a currency. Hence who would be foolish enough to accept a currency which is itself backed by another, broken currency with no intrinsic value.
Jeremiah Bell
>teleports behind you
>prints another billion USDT
Owen Brooks
Yo fags, just ignore the tech bs for a minute and look at the econ of it. Like I said, unless governments interfere to set a currency, bitcoin would disappear from circulation once we start reaching its cap.
Second, a decreasing monetary base is ALWAYS BAD. while an increasing monetary base isn't *always* bad, especially when you have 1.2 billion pajeets, 1 billion chinks, 1.2 billion Africans, and half a billion latins demanding more money for reserves every year. I can't think of any economic theory that posits that it would be better for money to contract or stay flat (bitcoin that isn't lost in the chain will decrease after bitcoin hits 21 million tokens) than to expand with the demand.
Easton Hernandez
>Second, a decreasing monetary base is ALWAYS BAD