the most important discussion in the world today. anyone with half a brain knows fiat is a ponzi scheme. the question is - bitcoin or gold? whats the best alternative and why? I just cant wrap my head around bitcoin. its not TANGIBLE and physical, and any number of carbon copies can be made. what happens when governments ban fiat on ramping? its not like gold where you can truly have privacy and transact offline.
I want a genuine discussion here, not a bagholding cope general.
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Ask yourself the following question.
Did bitcoin fulfill its mission of being a digital currency?
Silver and litecoin
Why not both? I don’t see why people assume you have to pick just one.
The governments banning argument against bitcoin can also be applied to gold governments have banned gold in the past and required citizens to give it up in exchange for fiat
Alleged advantages of BTC over gold: It is instantly transmittable, and highly divisible
Answer to alleged advantages: Gold can also have these properties too, whether by means of gold-backed cryptos like Kinesis, or gold-backed currencies in the banking system.
Alleged advantage of BTC over gold: Privacy
Answer to alleged advantage: BTC stores every transaction on a public ledger. This is why the celebrity Twitter hackers were caught within days, and the money from the Silk Road has been recovered. Additionally, if you want to use BTC as a currency, you have to go through Blockstream's second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do. So BTC has no privacy.
Gold, on the other hand, can be physically transmitted by hand in complete privacy.
Disadvantages of BTC over keeping gold in a vault:
You lose your life-savings after
i) Getting tortured for ten minutes
ii) Getting memory-loss or dementia;
iii) Making a thoughtless mistake;
iv) From a fire or natural disaster;
v) From burglary;
vi) From hardware failure.
Disadvantages of BTC over gold:
1) BTC will collapse once the price sinks under the cost of production for the miners.
2) Most BTC miners are in China.
3) BTC is propped up by the fiat ponzi scheme of tether.
4) BTC has no intrinsic value. Hence Russia, China, and other nations which actually produce the goods and commodities we use will never accept it in exchange for them. When fiat collapses, BTC will be priced in gold at 0.
5) BTC is over-complicated. No normal person will ever set up an LN node; they are happy to keep using the modern banking system. As using the LN compromises privacy anyway, there will be no reason to use BTC second-layer over gold-backed currencies in the banking system. BTC without second-layer demands $100 fees and 3-day transaction times, and so is, of course, impossible to use as a currency.
Tether is about to cause the most catastrophic rug-pull in human history.
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As of today, seven-day printing-rate of tether is $38 billion per annum.
I suspect that the CFTC knows that tether is a scam, but they won't audit it for the same reason that they won't audit the COMEX. Crypto is an Adam Back/Blockstream-created ponzi to split the anti-fiat community. The COMEX already would have gone bankrupt if our efforts had been fully concentrated on physical silver during these past ten years. Once fiat collapses, BTC becomes priced in gold, and all crypto (as being the fruit of the poisoned tree) immediately goes to zero.
"To overturn the history of gold is wishful thinking. Fully backed Gold and silver substitutes and circulating coins are practical and acceptable for 7bn transacting individuals. BTC will then have no role and sink to zero priced in gold." - Alasdair Macleod, 8 November 2020
>its not TANGIBLE and physical
Why does this matter? You disregard Peter Schiff when it comes to talking points like that, he pulls talking points out of his ass that do no pertain to economics. "Intrinsic value" is not a thing, value is subjective. Sometimes people can come to value something just knowing that innumerable others value it.
>and any number of carbon copies can be made.
That's not the same thing as bitcoin suffering from inflation. So why does that matter. There's no dilution of the supply of bitcoin there.
>what happens when governments ban fiat on ramping? its not like gold where you can truly have privacy and transact offline.
What country are you in? Seems very very unlikely in the United States, having watched previous congressional hearings on bitcoin/crypto legislation. Pic related is a US congressman. Maybe go watch some of the congressional hearings if you are concerned.
Save up 6 tot 12 months of living expenses in fiat.
Buy gold with 1/3 of it, 1/2 if you're feeling comfortable.
Put a few % of your monthly paycheck in BTC, more if you're feeling comfortable.
Here you go, user.
Damn I should proof read
**you should disregard Peter
Bitcoin - will get fucked when all the computers running it get fucked
Gold - will get fucked when someone finds a space gold rock to fuck
Even so, I'll still pick both options.
dont even bother educating these retarded animals.
let their paper-gold market get rehypothecated to give them their 2.6% yearly gains and forget about them.
Anything posted on /r/btc at this point is just going to be pure radioactive resentment and cope, you're better served not collecting your conspiracy theories from a gang of losers who just want to see bitcoin go down because they chose wrong and want to circlejerk together to assure themselves they were always right. People were schizo posting about tether four years ago, and they'll be doing it four years in the future when the price of BTC is much higher.
>"Intrinsic value" is not a thing, value is subjective.
Red herring. Whether we say that BTC doesn't have intrinsic value, or that it will never be perceived to have intrinsic value, the consequence is the same. After the dollar dies, Russia and China will never toil to produce goods and commodities in exchange for Bitcoin. They will make us pay for them in gold.
Keep BTC in a vault at xapo. Literally no different.
You’re an emotional trainwreck. Few facts, lots of erroneous opinions.
BTC is better if the world goes full WW3 and you need to get your wealth out of country. With BTC if you can get you body and mind out sound, then you can gather your BTC form any internet terminal. If The Communist People's Officers of Wealth Distribution Cletus and Jamal find out you've been hoarding gold after the great reset, they will redistribute it up each-other's assholes and send you to the labor camps.
Bitcoin is the hardest money in the history of humankind. It’s harder than my dick
Hi user,
Michael Saylor covers this pretty well in recent interviews. He's a rocket scientist billionaire entrepreneur genius that just put his half a billion dollar treasury all in bitcoin.
How cuck you have to be to be holding ''BTC of 1000 A.C.?''
You metalMongoloids
Reminds me of Stanley Druckenmiller buying the top of the tech bubble and losing $3 billion in a single day.
>its not TANGIBLE and physical
>Why does this matter?
my thoughts here are that btc is much more sensitive than gold
btc requires large and advanced infrastructure such as stable and cheap electricity, stable, cheap and global internet connections, a large and steady supply of advanced integrated circuitry to the miners and lots and lots of tech/capital to keep it all running
gold requires nothing, it just sits there
with that said I don’t think the world is going to lose electricity/internet/gpu supply anytime soon, especially not globally
but the fact that it could happen has to be factored in
I own both gold and btc btw, 60% gold, 40%btc
Did you listen to his various points?
another question blockchain integrity
how much effort would it actually take for a large government to completely fuck over btc for all eternity?
with a 51% attack you could double spend btc to 0 and disrupt transactions for as long as you control the hash power
with gold there isn’t much you can do except steal it and if you do, that’s all you’ve done, everything else will still be working
He's just like every other billionaire hedge-fund boomer putting money into Bitcoin. Says nothing about the block-size debate, the exiling of Mike Hearn and Gavin Andresen, the capturing of BTC by Blockstream and the banks, the uselessness of BTC as a currency, the probable identity of Satoshi as Adam Back, BTC's inevitable destruction of privacy via second-layer solutions, the tether scam, the many intrinsic disadvantages of crypto as compared to gold which I outline in my posts.
iran already disagrees
Iran is confiscating people's Bitcoin, not using it. Their Bitcoin has no velocity. They legislated that all miners send them their coins. It's essentially Executive Order 6102.
Gold is inflationary.
Do you think the gold mining companies are accurately reporting how much gold they mine before they quietly sell it into the market?
Do you think if the powers that be ever developed a cheap way to make gold in a lab, they would tell you about it?
if it had no value, they wouldn’t be taking it. they take it to keep people poor.
These threads really show how powerful the shilling of BTC has been by the cult. BTC should have died in 2017 bubble but instead it was resurrected by tether ponzi and extreme social media and youtube shilling. BTC network has been dying since the bubble burst which is indicated by the volume – nobody is transacting in the network. Second layer solutions just make it centralized shitcoin. There are so many reasons why BTC will fail, but fundamentally it is similar to TSLA stock or the famous tulip mania. It’s just pure speculation and it will die with FIAT money if not before that. As already pointed out when FIAT dies no one is going to exchange real life commodities for BTC. Governments are hoarding gold, nobody (that matters) is buying BTC except. The institutional money has been a meme since the beginning. In addition BTC can die independently of FIAT since if the price of BTC drops under the mining cost it is no longer economically viable to mine, i.e. maintain the network. This might sound unlikely but considering the current tether ponzi and the halvening I think we are quite close to it.
Finally BTC is not digital gold it is backed by absolutely nothing. The fact that it takes huge amount of energy does not make it so that the coin is worth anything. You can not extract this energy out of your token. If you dig up gold you are separating rare earth element and every single element has unique properties which can be used in applications and therefore gold and silver as physical elements will always hold intrinsic value.
BTC has temporary, propped up, fiat-bestowed value. Confiscating it is no different from (say) confiscating everybody's American tech stocks. Those tech stocks are still going to lose their value when fiat goes to zero, just as BTC will.
Read the Bitcoin Standard for a proper comparison.
I hold gold and link. Reason for link over bitcoin is the link network has industrial applications as far networks go but the token is more scarce than gold.
The point about scarcity applies to bitcoin as well. In gold as well as all physical assets, as the price for it increases so to does the production. New mines come online producing gold from more expensive to mine deposits. There is no limit to the amount of gold that can be mined as the gold in the Earth alone could form a small moon. This is not case with bitcoin or link. These digital assets have a coded limit that cannot be increased without producing a fork which doesn't change the supply of the original chain. This means , for bitcoin, that as price increases, more miners come online, and the network adjusts the mining difficulty resulting in the same amount of bitcoin being created as if a single laptop were the only computer mining. With Link there is no mining. The coins have all been created and that's that.
In this thread: /pmg retards whining about bitcoin. If you don’t understand it at this point, you might as well invest in bibs and helmets because you’re fucking retarded.
all these problems are solved gradually by altcoins (not by gold). bitcoin dominance will slowly drop, but it will probably be 10-20 years before it loses the top spot, and before that it will probably make it to $1m. just diversify into some "blue-chip" cryptos like ETH, LINK, ADA, etc and you’ll be fine.
"no intrinsic value" retards can be dismissed out of hand. a system of credit that cant be inflated and is highly resistant to hacking/cointerfeiting has obvious value.