Bitcoin isn't a store of value

money is a means of exchange. it arose as a solution to the barter system, where instead of having to directly exchange the good you want to 'sell' for the good you want to 'buy', you exchange the good you want to sell for another good which you can then exchange for the good you do want to buy.

throughout history many different goods have served as the means of exchange - salt, tobacco, iron, copper, gold, silver. these goods, being commodities, have tangible value and people will use them as a means of exchange because they know there will always be some degree of demand for them. this makes them a 'store of value', as you can depend on other people valuing them over time, meaning you should reliably be able to exchange them for goods and services. this is an essential characteristic of 'money'.

over time, the free market will determine which good will serve best a means of exchange. history has shown Gold and Silver to be the most reliable means of exchange. They have tangible value industrially(especially nowadays) but arent as consumable or necessary for the economy as other commodities, meaning the supply, and demand, stays stable and predictable.

my question is, what makes bitcoin a 'store of value'? in and of itself, theres nothing to store. It also fails as a means of exchange, in that it is expensive, slow and not easy to use or even understand.

now dont get me wrong, i am heavily invested in crypto. particuarly uitility crypto, which can at least in some way be justified as being necessary and having value. I'll be damned if i miss out on another bull run mania, but i cant delude myself to the same extent that you reddit niggers can - most of this shit is going to 0, and im looking forward to dumping my bags on you redditors at the absolute top.

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Well, he's not wrong lads. how do we know it's the top?

when you realise parabolic gains, many multiples higher than what your initial, and theres someone foolish enough to buy your bags. dont get greedy.

It's a finite resource as much as gold or silver, just a digital variant. There is still an amount of "work" that goes into "mining". Gold and Silver themselves are slow, expensive, and subject to manipulation through paper trading and futures contracts. I really struggle to understand your point here. You seem to be under the assumption that the game is not rigged from the start.

That's because bitcoin is really an "energy bond" and none of you faggots understand how it actually functions. That's why buy and hold is the best strategy, because this market is full of fucking retards top to bottom, none of who understand why the price moves the way it does and base their purchasing decisions off of grug tier capital flows and google searches instead of fundamentals.

>Gold and Silver themselves are slow, expensive, and subject to manipulation through paper trading and futures contracts.

as opposed to bitcoin? bitcoin is more expensive to transact than gold digitally. there is existing infrastructure in place to facilitate instant, cheap digital transfer of physical gold.

my 'point' is that bitcoin isn't a store of value because it has no value in and of itself. it isn't tangible, and has no utility beyond that of a means of exchange(and even then, it is slow, expensive and hard to use)

>You seem to be under the assumption that the game is not rigged from the start

I have absolutely no idea how you ascertained that but i assure you its not the case. The only way to win a rigged game is by not playing by their rules.

You seem to be under the assumption that 'fixed supply' is enough to give something inherent value.

lol. This midwit doesn't get it. This makes sense from an American townie perspective which I'm 99% you are. Travel the world, user.

if you understand this esoteric knowledge so well then surely you can share it with us all and enlighten us?

>lol. This midwit doesn't get it. This makes sense from an American townie perspective which I'm 99% you are. Travel the world, user.

no idea what the fuck you're talking about but i have three passports, although havent had a chance to use them much recently. perhaps post an actual argument instead of resorting to inane, baseless insults? makes it seem like your coping hard

>You dont confirm my biases, therefore I will insult you and I win.

Sure, it's really simple POW has inherent value coming from the energy used to compute the ledger, it directly stimulates the idea of more efficient computers and cheaper energy. Since bitcoin is limited you are buying a rolling bond that directly lays claim to the future energy and computational output of the network. If BTC was a company then the hashrate would be the companies earnings. As long as hashrate goes up you buy bitcoin.

>thinks bitcoin is more expensive to transact than gold
>doesn't understand bitcoin's utility to the Chinese and anyone with substantial wealth
>still believes the US is the biggest economy in the world

One day you will understand, user.

bitcoin doesnt have to be the BEST means of exchange. there’s never been one world currency and there never will be. you already saw what happened when they tried to make the US dollar the world currency ~ the people in control of the supply corrupted it to the point where you cant even save money in a savings account or 401k anymore, so people have been fleeing the US dollar in droves. also im pretty sure zelle payments are only a thing now because banks feel they need to compete with crypto, otherwise they would never bother to improve their systems. monopolies dont last, competitors always pop up, and bitcoin is a competitor that’s been making waves in the world financial system by doing things the dollar cannot do, in a largely decentralized way.

so to answer your question, i agree, nothing can be a store of value without deriving its initial value from something else, and for bitcoin that value is its utility as a currency that can’t be arbitrarily inflated or frozen by the government or banks. while that can describe cryptocurrencies as a whole, bitcoin gains value ON TOP of that by being seen as one of the safest cryptos to store your money when you are not using it.

the same can be said for gold. people dont usually use gold as a currency, but they CAN. of course gold gets most of its value from the fact that it’s pretty and collectable (electronics werent a factor a thousand years ago), but it’s value as a currency is probably the second thing it gets value from.

well nowadays the most useful currency is the electronic kind, even retarded people can understand that. and even before computers, non-tangible currencies have been around at least as long as the promissary note. it’s hard to argue the value of tangibility when people have been trading bank notes for thousands of years.

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>particuarly uitility crypto
you're a moron. this explains why you're so poor

"utility" will just become some marginal amount over cost. its the way all economics works.

Bitcoin correctly went after SoV market since that is binary option. Success = $1M per coin, Failure = $0

but this energy cant be stored or exchanged? when i buy one bitcoin, it isn't energy which can be saved, stored and exchanged, the energy consumed to produce bitcoin is lost. when i buy one barrel of oil, thats roughly 1700kWh of energy. this is measurable and tangible. I can exchange that barrel of oil(and its inherent value, the energy)

absolutely based.

most mining is coming from renewables. miners will leapfrog energy tech faster than any other industry....their entire cost basis is energy, therefore being able to capture solar, wasted nat gas, biodiesel, hydro, etc means huge profit potential.
unlike other industries, you don't need some huge buildout to capture these renewables. a shipping container with miners connected to solar array in desert is enough to reap big profits.

>thinks bitcoin is more expensive to transact than gold

it is, please prove me wrong. i have 1oz of gold in my hand, and i give it to someone else in exchange for the goods i want. that transaction was free. even digital transfers of gold are cheaper than digital transfers of bitcoin.

yes when you insult me you win and im wrong, you dont have to put forward an actual argument. yes chainlink has no utility, how silly of me, ill just return those 2000% gains

>theres never been one world currency and there never will be

aside from those few thousand years gold and silver were the world currency but ok. they might have called them the franc, the stirling, the dollar etc but regardless of what they were called and what weight the unit was denominated in, they were the same thing.

are you suggesting that most mining production is coming from renewable energy? user... i...

God damn the startling lack of refutations makes me want to sell my whole stack right now

literally nobody cares what you think. If the ones running the show want to make crypto into the new world currency, (which they will) then it will happen. So just shut up and get rich with the rest of us. It doesn't matter what YOU believe about crypto since you're not the one with the power.

I can throw a bunch of rocks into a crucible and melt them for days. Doesn't mean the melted mess inside the crucible is anywhere near as valuable as the energy used to melt them.
In the case of bitcoin, there isn't really any use for the hashes other than supporting the payment network itself. So the value of BTC should reflect the value of the network, not necessarily the value of the energy used to run it.

>my question is, what makes bitcoin a 'store of value'?
In and of itself there isn't anything other than advertising, consensus and speculation, which to a certain extent is enough. Bitcoin was built with the intention of serving as a p2p network for trustless payments, but failed at that as it is too expensive and slow.
However the killer app in crypto hasn't been what bitcoin was designed to be. The killer app has been a volatile, speculative ponzi bubble that heavily fluctuates in price making quick, large moves to the upside and downside, while largely going up over time. Due to the fact that ponzi sounds like negative framing, the whole process and use case has been reframed in a more positive light by calling it a store of value.
The features of Bitcoin are not built around it being a superior store of value to gold or anything else as it has very little functionality that distinguishes it from the rest of the altcoins. And the main reasons why it is viewed as better than altcoins have almost nothing to do with the code itself, and almost everything to do with brand name, highest liquidity, first mover advantage, etc.
Bitcoin doesn't do anything while you're "storing your value" in it. A superior store of value would be something that monetized the process of holding your wealth in the asset over an extended period of time. It would be an asset where the use case was directly tied to holding, which is possible right now, since we have programmable money, and has been done by a certain project.
Tech wise Bitcoin is clunky, slow and shitty compared to most altcoins. But the value of Bitcoin is not in the tech. It's in the people who believe it's some revolutionary thing, because they've been told so and don't have the knowledge to evaluate the tech. So if something better can attain enough attention, there's no reason for Bitcoin to remain at the top as the predominant store of value in crypto.

then why doesn't btc fork into something better

What an absolute useless retard you are.

I don't know what you mean. How does bitcoin fork into something better?
I think for the most part Bitcoin will remain as is, since there's not enough incentive to improve it and since it's already enough to serve it's main (actual) use cases, which are speculation and trading.

>yes chainlink has no utility, how silly of me, ill just return those 2000% gains
those 2000% returns was great. but you'll be lucky to eek another 3x out of it before competition eats it.
Bitcoin has already done 100000% and can comfortably do another 100x
keep bleeding sats newfag, you'll eventually get it.

you could've just said network effect. it would've been simpler.

Since the energy cannot ever be extracted out of the token it is not in any way stored in it and consequently the token does not carry any value despite of the energy cost to mine it. It just means that the network is inefficient if it takes a lot of resources (energy to make transactions). This is maybe the biggest fallacy there is and why brainlets argue btc is a store of value when it is logically not. One could very easily make a token which takes more energy than btc to mine i. E. It would be even more efficient and by your flawed logic this new shitcoin would store more value than btc.

this is correct. energy to produce (labor theory of value) does not give value, demand and only demand does.

zerohedge.com/commodities/central-bank-uzbekistan-introduces-parallel-currency-gold
Cryptofags on suicide watch

Yes and btc was originally supposed to have demand other than speculation but since it failed as a currency its only demand became speculation. They also needed a new narrative to keep and increase this speculative demand so the store of value meme was born. Obviously since it is actually backed by nothing this store of value is just the current and maybe final narrative before the inevitable collapse of the flawed network. If there is no utility, there is no demand (except greater fool theory) and there can be no long term future.

lol shut up nigger

bitcoin is not immune to the kikery either, look at tether

The energy is used to secure the network which maintains the value.
Because I can now use my excess cheap electricity to secure the network I have a way to grow green energy production for export.
>Since the energy cannot ever be extracted out of the token it is not in any way stored in it
I can mine a coin using my private hydro dam. When I sell that coin to someone I'm selling the output of the dam. If I use it to buy electricity in another country I'm trading my dam output at home for the local output.