Did it really deserve as much hate as it did? I thought it was awesome

thats cool man,
but can you please shut the fuck up?

No. Nothing about Brawl was ruined. Sakurai didn't want as big a gap between people who practiced and people who were too lazy so he made Brawl less skill-based.
As a game to mess around with it's fun. As a successor to Melee (as a casual of that game) it's mediocre

It deserved a lot more, especially at the time.

zoom zoom, dronybronies.

what the fuck does this shit even mean.
your brain is fucking rotten.

Tripping was a bad idea. Everything else was fine or even good. Level design was great (Smash 4 and Ultimate have had really bad new levels). New characters were really detailed. Old characters got a lot of improvements (except Link). And the fucking coin mini game was the best mini game ever.

The game was the most fun I had with Smash because my main boy Luigi was so overpowered in it. But that was largely due to the "floatey" physics. Luigi had a monster air game. Luigi got nerfed hard in Smash 4, but I accepted it. Because I recognized he was broken in Brawl. The irony is, now he's broken again in Ultimate (at least, if you fall for his combo). Yet the floatey physics are gone.

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Yes, it absolutely did. The creator went out of his way to make a worse game. Ontop of that, the exclusion of HAL/Iwata meant we got the buggiest Smash game to date. The game was so bad and the meta so bad that it literally revived Melee and made modding the games a serious thing.

He still fucked up with that. The game lets players who know what they are doing absolutely shit on ones that don't in ways less fun than getting comboed in Smash 64. You picked a certain character? Let me go DDD and literally just mash grab and infinite you. The problem is that the terrible OP jank was so easy (literally mashing grab and such) that now bad players could do it to their friends.

>brawl Luigi
>overpowered
his floatiness works against him, makes his movement terrible. he also lost his single biggest strength, a deadly combo game because of Brawl's effort to get rid of combos. and as usual, he's helpless against a sword, which is especially awful in a game with Brawl Meta Knight

only melee fags hate it, they just forget is game and what is fun, no wonder since they circle jerk only in fox marth and falco

>everything else was fine or even good
>edge mechanics
>Ice climbers
>momentum canceling
>Metaknight
>shit like frame 1 grenades which canceled landing lag entirely
>worst balance in the series
>incredibly glitchy
>lots of pseudo-infinites which were incredibly easy to do and invalidated vast portions of the cast
>broken powershielding made aggression incredibly risky, leading to long, drawn-out matches
>stripped down movement mechanics
>random input lag because of poor coding

Casually played it with my friends and we all agreed it played like garbage.
We played Project M afterwards and had a great time again.

youre a disingenuous faggot. the only reason why melee is faster is because of l-cancelling and if you werent aware of the competitive scene you definitely weren't l-canceling.

>the only reason why melee is faster is because of l-cancelling
Why do people who know literally nothing about melee have such strong opinions on it?

That isn't even true at all and is so egregious nobody believes you.

Nice cope meleefag

it's 100% true. melee has about as many combos as brawl if you don't l-cancel; i.e. hardly any.

You weren't talking about combos. It's actually easier in Brawl to have longer combos because so many infinites or pseudo infinites exist. Do you know what? The game still is slower and sets were astronomically slower even though three of the top and most common characters (MK, Snake, ICs) didn't even need L-canceling at all. You don't know anything about these games, obviously.

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I don't believe you have ever played melee, or even watched someone play it.

From a competitivefag view unironically if you nerf the top tiers, not give Ice Climbers an infinite, remove tripping, and make it a less floaty. Brawl would easily be the best. While this sounds dumbfounding to most Zig Forumsaggots here it's really only because they haven't look into how much tech is actually in Brawl and how balanced the roster actually is once you take out the top tiers.

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the only reason why melee is considered faster paced because you can only string attacks together and you basically can't do it if you don't l-cancel. and of course sets in brawl are slower because there's no l-cancelling you retard; hence my entire point.

not an argument and not true. show me some footage of combos from melee without l-cancelling. good luck.

At the apex of your jump, tap down.

>tripping

>if you nerf the top tiers, not give Ice Climbers an infinite, remove tripping, and make it a less floaty
So just make a game that doesn't suck? Yeah, i agree. That would've definitely made brawl a good game.

t. astroturfing meleefag, I can smell you from here

>his floatiness works against him, makes his movement terrible.
I never saw that. I guess maybe extreme tourneyfags could exploit that. But I played with friends and even in local tournaments and won with Luigi (and Diddy Kong).

as a kid I thought subspace was just the tightest shit, it genuinely blew my mind

again, youre being a disingenuous faggot. casuals weren't short hop fast falling, and they definitely weren't short hop fast falling l-canceling.

It was alright but tripping was fucking garbage. Project M is pretty tight and I only ever played it casually with friends.

Best single player, worst multiplayer.

Luigi is pretty damn strong until your opponent realizes they can't just not play the game and run away from Luigi and then he can't do shit anymore. Tbh that is Brawl in a nutshell

it had the best Final Destination theme

Combo without l cancel coming right up

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Literally any time a Fox upthrow upairs a puff for one.

You're the one claiming the only reason Brawl is slower is sans l-canceling, despite the fact you didn't refute shit about the top characters not needing it or the longest combos in Brawl not requiring them either (and they often did 60-80% from 0, btw, which is more than nearly every Melee combo did). You just don't know anything about the games. Movement is slower, people die more slowly, dodges are better, it's easier to stall, recoveries are better, movement is restricted, characters can rarely confirm into kills, the game encourages camping. It isn't a fast game. Citing casuals being faster or slower at either game is worthless because "casuals" don't have a set gameplay level. Hell, taking that argument means Melee is faster because recovering is more difficult there and they will just die. The only faggot here is you.

>until your opponent realizes they can't just not play the game and run away from Luigi and then he can't do shit anymore.
But then he just uses the tornado, which can transport him across almost the entire screen and sucks the opponent in. And he can follow that up with combos. It's totally broken as fuck in Brawl. Which is why his tornados movement and draw range got nerfed hard in Smash 4/Ultimate. As a Luigi player, it was annoying, but I understood why they did it.

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Shit like tripping is bad regardless if it's casual or competitive

nah, you're misrepresenting my argument and not being honest. i'm saying that casuals who played brawl and who played melee, without ever paying attention to the melee scene, wouldn't be aware of things that can be done to make use of melee being faster: short hop fast falling, l-canceling, etc. and you citing a bunch of shit from brawl that slows the game down such as chaingrabs is again being disingenuous because the entire argument is casuals not playing both games without being aware of competitive mechanics. casuals aren't going to look any of it up and try to make use of it

wow a single 2-hit combo. because brawl doesn't have any of those. keep coping

this

Does anyone have as fluid and cool ground movement as Melee Marth? The answer is no

Tornado being his only tool to even pretend to approach is what makes it so damn predictable, he would be really good if he still had that amazing wavedash.