How do you feel about video games deliberately adding elements of unfun as a way to contrast with the enjoyable stuff? Like making something deliberately obtuse so it's more fun when you solve it?
Naturally all games have this to an extent (Game Overs are not fun but we put them in anyway), but I'm talking about the little more in your face stuff; when the game is clearly testing your patience but with a big pay off in the end.
obviously putting something unfun is counterproductive (and I can't really think of anything outside of skinner box gacha games that does that) but games doing some kind of negative reinforcement is nothing new or radical (like the baby crying in the yoshi game)
Is there a great, highly successful piece of western media in modern times about true joy? It seems the "great" works of today are incredibly cynical and materialistic. I suspect that's part of the reason why younger generations have turned to anime, which of course, has its own problems.
Well of course JRRT is better but is GRRM really that bad? I read all of the SoInF book and I thought they were really good.
Jolkein Rolkein Rolkein Tolkein vs George Reorge Rartin Martin
Jesus fucking Christ, /lit/ is retarded
The patrician choice.
I didn't really like the lord of the rings and all that. I thought it was namby pamby fantasy bullshit. At least Ice and Fire starts off pretty interesting.
comfy soulful post
FINISH THE FUCKING BOOKS!
Of course not. GRRM is a fine writer. People just like to hate on him because he is popular.
Man, that sure is a lot of adjectives with nothing of substance to offer.
Imagine being so butthurt that ASOIAF got popular.
No More Heroes did this with the boring side missions you do to finance your progress.
As an artistic choice to show how dull Travis finds his existence when he's not murdering people, it's good, but it does make the game drag a lot.
>elements of unfun as a way to contrast
Stopped reading there. Learn the language before trying to communicate your ideas.
I think failure states are "good" unfun because it's a punishment. There should be a clear cause and effect, and hopefully the punishment is fair. If you have something shitty happen just because, without the player knowing it pays off later, it's likely to cause resentment and way more people will drop your game. Perhaps it could be justified in the game though, it might depend on how its framed in the story. I don't know that I've ever seen something be overtly and intentionally unfun in a game
You're a retard but you made me laugh so I must be retarded too
It is not that bad. I mean, it is no literary marvel at all, but manages to keep you interested enough to chug 1000 page books.I'm honestly more amazed of how could he rip Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn so much without anybody saying anything, and how the result is so insanely popular while the source material is pretty much unknown.
You understand exactly what he meant
What was his tax policy
R E M I N D E R
They're good but very different in tone and style from LOTR. I don't really understand the GRRM vs. JRRT fights, Martin likes Tolkien too.
-strained buzzing and whirring as his motorized chair struggles to remain functional- "Ah, ha ha, *munch, munch* ol' J.R.R., didn't, ah, see you come in! -burp- No please, please, [smack] sit down, sit down, there' something we, (pant) need to talk about. *farts* Heavens excuse me, oh ho! Well getting down to 'brass tacks' - or brass tax, I might say SNORT! - yes, well I was sitting, counting the money coming in from, slurp, my show - terribly taxing ah yes? - when the thought occurred me, watching that money from my award-winning show... [belch] from my, (siiippp) award, award, awar... sorry, I lost my breath, award-winning books, that I [chews] that I can't seem to recall you mentioning [more chewing] anything about Gondor's *blows nose* taxation policy. Surely I must have -releases one long wet smelly fart - missed it while glancing through the pages (cough). You did [scratches ballsack] say something about it, right? Sales tax? (sweats) Value-added tax? *licks lips* Don't just sta - oh my my heart - stand there my man, out with it! Surely the, the thought has crossed your mind?! -chuckles until accidental urination-"
It doesn't work on me because I can feel the irritation of the added inconvenience but not any additional pleasure from the "difficulty". Multiplayer is one thing but getting dicked around by a roomful of Japs who stopped thinking about this boss fight years ago doesn't make me feel like a GOD when I beat it. Everything is designed to be beatable, it's just how many people can actually be fucking bothered.
Oh and difficulty by itself is FINE, you can enjoy something like 10 Second Run which is grueling because it doesn't dick you around. That's what a lot of this shit comes down to. Oh you died 3 times? Do everything all over again. It's not the difficulty it's the fact that you're dicking me around by cynically padding out the length. Same thing with Roguelikes, if your game would only take 90 minutes to beat then you can make it an indie darling by just adding Permadeath, even though the game is the exact same thing - just more of a hassle. You could do the same shit with any game and it would add the exact same amount of "enjoyment"
>Oh you crashed your car, guess your out of the season
>Oh you got injured? Guess we'll see you for next years tourament
>Oh you got shot? Well shit bro we'll send someone else through bootcamp, just wait a bit
>Oh your city had a natural disaster? No one wants to move there anymore, but we can get you elected as mayor of somewhere else?
Who enjoys this dumb shit. Who actually wants it? Why?
>I don't really understand the GRRM vs. JRRT fights
You don't?
But what is Aragorn's tax policy?
>deliberately adding elements of unfun as a way to contrast with the enjoyable stuff
I have no problem with this and can be used in extremely effective ways and the only arguments against it are extraordinarily juvenile kotaku-tier takes that should be laughed out of the room.
>no *sweats loudly"
One job, man
Tolkein is considered high art because he basically invented the modern mythos. He did for modern fantasy writing what the Greeks did for classical fantasy, and King Arthur did for medieval fantasy.
It's thanks to Tolkein we have dwarves/elves or a counterpart (say, Goron/Zora) in pretty much every piece of fiction. And pretty much every big fantasy mythos leans into the Tolkein Fantasy. Warcraft, Warhammer, Dragon Quest, and so on.
Martin is always obsessed and seething about Tolkien, he thinks LOTR was 'dishonest' because there was no orc rape and no tax policy discussion from Gondor
>How do you feel about video games deliberately adding elements of unfun as a way to contrast with the enjoyable stuff? Like making something deliberately obtuse so it's more fun when you solve it?
This very thing is the reason why I refunded RDR2. The devs even said they slowed shit down, made some things tedious because "life back then was hard" fuck that noise I wanted RDR1 but with better graphics, not a gay cowboys eating pudding simulator.
GRR Martin just loves wallowing in human misery. No wonder so many women love Game of Thrones.
It's not high literature but it's also not the grimdark, misery porn people characterize it as either.
Martin > Tolkien
The fucking GALL that he thinks he stands alongside Dickens!
see and can THE ORCS INTERMARRY WITH ELVES???
>complains about lack of tax policy
>doesn't even include tax policies in his own books
that pasta is way older than the Miyazaki one
It really is weird. I got into it the 2000s after reading some Black Company and looking for more dark fantasy. I didn't even watch the show after the first season.
I got the reco off of Something Awful and everyone else in the thread was like "yea that's a good series, has its problems but its good".
Moment it get popular people start calling Martin the death of literature and the man who spits on this weird immortal idea of Tolkien.
Like he wrote the first book in the 90s you fucking tards. If two fuckers hadn't convinced him with internet theories it would've stayed a book series.
Tonally and in terms of the structure of some of the sentences this post sounds a lot like that Almond White copypasta about those other great works of fantasy, the episodes following the boy wizard and his pals from Hogwarts Academy.
A liberal homosexual feminist Jew was teaching a class on George R.R. Martin, known hack
”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Gurm and accept that Planetos is the greatest fantasy setting of all time even greater than Arda!”
At this moment, a brave, patriotic, British WW1 veteran who had served 1500 tours of duty on the Somme and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all decisions made by Butcher Haig stood up.
”What are the linguistic differences among the peoples of Westeros?”
The arrogant pleb smirked quite jewishly and smugly replied “There is the Old Tongue and the Common Tongue, you stupid warmonger”
”Wrong. There should be hundreds of dialects. If the Wall is 8000 years old as you say, how can the Wildlings and Northmen understand one another?”
The HBO shill was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of A World of Ice and Fire. He stormed out of the room crying those redditor crocodile tears. The same tears redditors (who today live in such luxury most can afford sex changes) cried when Missandei was beheaded. There is no doubt that at this point our Jew-faggot wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a garbage pulp fiction fan. He wished so much he could die a glorious death in battle, but he had sworn to always be a draft dodger!
The students applauded and became Tolkien fans that day and accepted the Pope as their Lord and Master. A giant eagle named “Thorondor” flew into the room and perched atop the flag of Gondor and shed a tear on the White Tree. The Silmarillion was read several times, and Eru Ilúvatar himself showed up and enacted Aragorn's flat rate tax policy across the universe.
The Jew was fired the next day and sunset found him squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up he was shitting brown water.
I just mostly see the same quotes pasted over and over again, the books themselves are so different in style that I find comparing them useless. Martin himself has some dumb hot takes but who cares? Just don't read the interviews or blogs.
The plotting and characterization of the books are pretty solid, insofar as events have foreshadowing, logical progressions, and conclusions. Structurally, the books are sound, but it's well made in the same sense that an Eastern European commieblock is well made. The commieblock will withstand weather and time, it'll do it's job of housing the masses for years, and it wont suffer from some kind of catastrophic collapse owing to a foundation failure. But it's an absolutely empty piece of architecture. Likewise, GRRM's work is similarly empty. Metaphysically, it espouses cynicism, materialism, disrespect for virtue and honor, among a host of other poisonous aspects disguised as "realism".
Ironically, the realism espoused by GRRM's work often diverges from actual reality. While it's true that the heroic tales of old that inspired Tolkien's works were exaggerations of reality, they were still based on reality. Singular people, possessed by virtue and being of good character, really could go out into the world and make sweeping changes for the better. History has countless real world examples, that, were their exploits put into a book and labelled "fantasy", GRRM would decry as unrealistic. This is why Tolkien's ideas will win out in the end. Storytelling is so universal to the human condition because humans recognize on an instinctual level that certain people are capable of being larger than life heroes. The storytelling mechanism in the psyche is just a way to abstract the heroic traits into digestible metaphors and archetypes.
The difference between the Christian author and an atheist one
Dealing with the pressure of consequences is a unique form of difficulty.
It's way easier to beat a boss when you're not worried about having to redo the entire level if you lose.
He has repeatedly made these statements in public and should be taken to task for them.
This is why I always come back to Zig Forums
I laughed loudly