How do we fix this?

>-make everyone DPS
is that not a thing in every mmo? i only ever played xiv

stop being a retard and disregard the whole concept of a "holy trinity"
cookie cutter MMORPG gameplay is shit and so is their class system

Remove tanks and healers, give DPS more mitigation and support tools. Make fights based around everyone using and coordinating their tools to survive rather than 25-50% of the team needing to worry about it

Make everyone a dps with subtle skills that let some do a little bit of tanking or healing

Every class is DPS, healing and tanking are replaced with a need to not get hit and acquire game knowledge.

Holy trinity a gay.

arent tanks meant to have health how can they tank if they dont

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So Monster Hunter?

orator from FF tactics

so you just want every mmo to become ESO? shit opinion tbdesu

fix what?

Is DPS damage per second?
why not Resistance per second and healthback per second?

By not designing your MMO to be a PVE moba.

Seriously, dragon fights are cool and all, but if thats all your MMO is about, it fucking sucks and Monster Hunter does it better.

yes, always

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This but unironically

Do... do DPS actually think they have the hardest job in the game?

This but also remove healing spells entirely.
Tank can learn to spam potions - healer is entirely unnecessary.

PSO2?

Why fix it, it's fun.

Do... do all Healers write retarded like this?

>Tank
>stands there and spams attacks to keep aggro
>maybe also spams some potions to not die

>Healer
>does fucking nothing

DPS with healing just automatically wins. Defenses and Mobility don't matter when you can just sustain through everything

>remove objectively the most interesting class of the bunch
i'd call your opinion trash but i wouldn't want to imply it's on the same level of trash, or anywhere close to it. Absolutely scum tier opinion.

>healslut upset they're not actually neccessary

why?
its perfect

Depends. Rarely DPS is the hardest if ever, but in FFXIV being a tank was so boring. Especially as a paladin.

A forth class which optimizes the output of the other classes.

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>healing
>interesting
oh boy watching hp bars fill up while you felate the tank is VERY interesting

>healer does nothing
Idk what game you play user, but last jig I had as a healer, I had to DPS, dodge attacks, do the mechanics, heal people, and micro manage a pet. But that's like 5 years ago, as FF14 changed so much since then?

Thats what GW2 did initially. It was a mess and Made me quit the game.

>ff14 healing
>hard
Healers get a handjob just for playing the job because it's so boring. There's 0 skill required and anyone who says otherwise actually sucks at the game.

>Save MMOs by killing the trinity
>Simultaneously put healsluts and tanks out on the street, unable to compete in a world where only skill matters

Why isn't this happening?

By moving control back into other classes and make everyone responsible for damage.

Also by making every class not a pure class and hybridize everyone, all melee should be able to tank to some capacity, though only your big beefy fighters and paladins should be able to take a hit from an ogre or dragon, while rogues and monks might be better for dodge tanking

Really the biggest issue is WOW, WOW is the 'standard' but the modern WOW standard is retarded because all the mechanics in the game are handled by tanks, and maybe healers who might have to coordinate their CD usage, but DPS are just sitting there being damage turrets not really contributing anything except a number on a damage meter and if they were to cut out arbitrary enrage mechanics from bosses in WOW and WOW like games the DPS would be considered the most useless role in the game because they litterally do nothing, in fact this is happening in WOW right now because of how overpowered they made tanks

By giving everyone decent damage output but different utility. More emphasis on BF control and movement as opposed to just standing and taking hits. Rethink healing entirely, i.e. focus on damage prevention rather than damage removal, restoring hp for combat performance such as stunning boss or executing combos, everyone has an ability to full heal limited amount of times e.t.c.

I think Vindictus had good idea, from what I played it for a while.
The big guy had "tank" abilities like wrestling the bosses, but otherwise every class was mainly just "dps" and trying to co-operate.

Also MH does it well. Technically there is "provoker" food skill and used to be armor skill for it, but it isn't permanent aggro. You could build wide range to heal your friends as you heal yourself.
I just think "holy trinity" overall is really boring now that there is only been that for so long.

They don't need high HP, just high EHP.

So you can have a tanking class with moderate HP and a high chance to block/parry.

There's also things like WOW's monk class which turns instant damage into a dot (so when they get hit for 1k, they instead might take 400 dps for 2.5 seconds.)

Otherwise you can give them low HP but abilities which significantly reduces the damage they take but only for a brief time, so they've gotta actively mitigate.

Its already been solved, Tree of Savior did it. Better class/skill system than all other MMOs combined.

at least up until I stopped playing WoW at the beginning of BfA, a lot of people in my mythic raiding guild who werent very good at the game would think DPS is the hardest role and thats why they do bad

Healers have it the hardest in a world where they're expected to optimize GCDs around healing AND damage.
DPS, depending on class/playstyle, are either unga-bunga, or some 200iq shit that has to be optimized perfectly
Tanks are by far the easiest classes in the game. Literally their only job is to make sure bosses don't cleave the party, and to burn CD on a tankbuster. They literally have an entire class of characters (Healers) devoted to just keeping them alive as well.

So, using FFXIV as the example, I'd probably put complexity at like:
>MNK/NIN/SMN-Most Healers-Most DPS-Tanks-BLM/SAM/WHM

But that's also for general play. If you want to get into APM to make the class work right, DPS are by far the most complicated. NIN, MNK, and BRD all have stupidly high APM to deal with

they totally do
they really think copy-pasting build from forum is height of mad skillz
most of non-retards dropped genere years ago

the holy trinity only exists because MMO's all have the same shitty tab combat style as the baseline. you can't theoretically avoid all damage via skill, the enemies attacks (and yours) are just based on who has the bigger numbers. this means that you need a class that makes those numbers bigger (healer) and someone who takes all the attention in order to make the healers job easier (tank).

the entire system only exists because late 90's/early 00's internet latency wasn't good enough for 1000's of players to all play a game that actually took skill, it was way too laggy, so instead we needed to make this "you shoot a fireball and it magically homes in on the target and after the server does some checks it takes damage a second later" nonsense. the trinity only exists because after throwing that fireball because of server lag the mage is being attacked by monsters swinging their sword from 20 feet away but somehow still connecting because 10 seconds ago you were within range.

TLDR: stop copying world of warcraft and everquest. start copying dungeon fighter online, phantasy star online, and countless other MMO games that have actually interesting/skill based combat

Sounds like you should play fighting games

>another ffxivbaby who doesn't know anything else but their retarded mmo
into the trash it goes

Can't, too white.

FUCK thiefs

>hard
I never once said this in my post. As for the "zero skill" part, how come they have to do your job (DPS) and all the same mechanics, but also heal. Wouldn't that just mean more work? "Healing" isn't hard, but neither is DPS'ing. FF14 isn't a hard game.

hey i know grade school math too

>tankfags replaced entirely by healsluts shielding
>dpsfags replaced entirely by healsluts outhealing boss DPS
>dpsfag upset he's completely replaceable, and typically a whiny faggot, so everyone would love to replace hi

How is the DPS with healing supposed to land hits in order to heal (as implied by the vampire teeth) against someone with much better mobility?
How is a DPS with healing supposed to beat someone with much better defence, when that defence makes their healing only heal a little bit of damage, while the other DPS does a lot more damage to the healing one (as they don't have better defence)

>doing dps
oh yeah because 1-1-1-1-1 spam and the occasional dot as filler between tankbusters is SO HARD.

oh, look, an insecure WoW player that has to cry about a successful game. Don't worry, we'll take in your refugees, again.

>Dps
>goes through meta rotation of his attacks for highest dps
>repeats

nah WOW is shit too senpai, both of them go into the trash

>tanking
>interesting
oh boy watching hp bars drain while you drain the bosses balls is VERY interesting
>DPS
>interesting
oh boy watching hp bars drain while you drain the bosses/adds balls and/or your own HP bar while standing in fire is VERY interesting
At least healers have some sort of fucking dynamic to their playstyle. Tankfags are boring as piss and DPS are completely pointless unless the boss has a DPS check involved, which instantly makes it a shit tier boss.

>Hardest role in an MMO
>Trying to pretend its [insert your role here]
Its like saying your car engine is not as important as your wheels, or your wheels not as important as your steering wheel. The hardest role in any MMO is teamwork. Five paladins can be better than a perfectly balanced team, as long as those paladins work together more effectively. And thats a skill which no video or tutorial can teach.

yall fags n bitches

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I just want to support using buffs, debuffs or use like turrets and shit. I am a simple man but I don't want to heal.

>SO HARD.
Again I never said this. Doesn't Scholar in FF14 have like 3-4 dots at least? And 2 spam spells aswell, on top the pet micro. It's been too long for me so i might have gotten changed to just "1-1-1-1-1-1" but at least it wasn't like that in 2015.

>has a DPS check involved, which instantly makes it a shit tier boss
oh so you really are a baby who hasn't played past the tutorial

>he supports objectively awful boss design

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>role faggotry
I honestly dont get it. Every role has its difficulty and issues, saying its as simple as dps/tank/healer is so wrong it doesnt even merit discussion. Sometimes a good healer is enough to carry a party, sometimes its a good tank, sometimes a good DPS, it completely depends on the class, its abilities and most important the person behind it.

That all being said the guy whose 2 or 3 levels ahead of the content is almost always the MVP. Stupid talking about difficulty in a genre where difficulty is negated by grinding.

Never bothered with these kinds of MMOs but why don't they just make healing / tanking quotas to meet?
For each party mission that involves killing some big baddy (DPS focused) you could have another that involves keeping some hero alive (healer focused) or mitigating damage from villagers that are evacuating a city (tank focused)
Of course they'd need to be implemented properly for it to work.

>I can't heal infinitely and do the same instance for 3 hours because there's a certain amount of DPS required
absolutely riveting gameplay, healercuck

>thiefs
esl detected

>Doesn't Scholar in FF14 have like 3-4 dots at least?
No

It has one

FFXIV and WOW both share the same problems, in fact everything wrong with WOW is worse in FFXIV, its just Yoshi is good at catering to his fanbase while Hozzikostas is a fucking retard

Second Gen MMOs are fucking shit.

You're late to the party, most people have moved on to games that are purely about individual skill such as battle royales.

I agree, and I guess doesn't realise healers are expected to DPS in mythic+ too.

>"Why can't you guys see that all sides are good, and that there's no need to shitpost each other?"

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>goes through meta rotation of his attacks for highest dps

>Be me playing Bard
>my "rotation" is a static opener, then fucking chaos for 30s, then another 30s of chaos after swapping songs, then 20s of relative calm til it all starts again
It all depends on what class you play, senpai. Not everything is unga-bunga Samurai

>That all being said the guy whose 2 or 3 levels ahead of the content is almost always the MVP. Stupid talking about difficulty in a genre where difficulty is negated by grinding.
literally nobody EVER discusses content that isn't max level. There's no point in it.
they ripped out all the DoTs for SCH when they did the adjustment at the beginning of ShB to differentiate it from SMN. It took a LOT of bitching to at least get back Energy Drain

they dumbed it down because the average mmo player is too dumb for that shit now

doesn't matter anyway because healers were easy as fuck even back in ARR