Fighting game opinion time

This. Mobafags would drop like flies after touching it. The only reason why LOL is even big is because of streaming and sponsors forcing esports shit.

>Honestly I think they just need to make good single player content.
How do you stop players who finish story mode and shelf the game though?

It's fine. No need to force them to come back. As long as they had a good time with the SP, it's all that matters.
Fighting Game should focus on regaining that lost audience rather than seeking a genre that it's never gonna compete with because it doesn't have as many ways for players to cope with the fact that they're shit at the game.
Everyone wins besides faggots wanting to suck Epenises and spend more time watching than playing the game

>What's the next step? Removing Corners because casuals don't know how to escape once they're there?
Well look what happened to MMOs.

Single player challenge modes like what Super Shower Bros. Melee had with the timed mode where you had destroy targets, and other ways to practice skills with out feeling like your practicing or doing the same thing over and over.

>The best route would be to help newer players have fun with the game and make it easy to pick up, but still preserve the depth and complexity.
In some recent threads, it was suggested that they make training/tutorial mode grant rewards that people ACTUALLY want so that these retards actually learn to play correctly (I forget which game though).

>What's the next step? Removing Corners because casuals don't know how to escape once they're there?
Oh god, I remember when I felt this way too
>mfw, directed at myself

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I understand where you're coming from, but at what point does removing the barriers of entry like execution allow them to learn these things instead of being frustrated with how much there is to learn?

The way I see it from the accessibility perspective is that by removing the more complicated motions and doing what dbfz did for example (making the hardest motion a qcb or qcf) and implementing autocombos, you allow people to learn whatever part of the game interests them the most and decide if they enjoy it, while still preserving depth at a higher level.

Trying to get into an SF game means learning DP motions, 180s, 360s, 720s, charge motions, etc, and that's just to learn your own character. Now you have to learn when to use those things, as well as how the other 40 characters play (usually nothing alike).

Meanwhile in granblue people had the option to hop right in and get by with autocombos and single button specials in an attempt to learn the neutral, footsies, matchups, etc and could choose to optimize their gameplay in the lab with optimal combos and inputs between matches. This allows them to actually play the game instead of having to lab for a few days before even feeling confident enough to go online.

I do agree though with the main point that fighting games force you to be accountable, so many people just won't play them as they can't handle being bad. Although my time in the FGC taught me that even 1v1 people still find plenty of reasons to claim they didn't lose cause of lack of skill.

>He picked a high tier, the connection was bad, he was a spammer reeeeeeee

People will follow the money and riot had plenty to offer

>maintain what little relevance they have in esport
Question, OP, who do you think you're fooling if you don't follow the scene?

Yeah I agree 100% that these games should have good single player modes to sell to more casuals and increase revenues. I like what GBVS tried to do, but they didn't do it well enough.

I know it would be more expensive to make both a good RPG experience as well as a fighting game in one game, but with how sf5 has basically everything supported my micro transactions and dlc characters, I don't get why they can't accomplish both. Selling skins or characters that work in the single player game as well as the fighting game side seems like a no brainer.

If the fgc is going to survive, it needs to sell.

>People still believing the LOL fightan is a real thing.

Riot said it themselves, the game BEFORE the preview was 4 years into development, and yet all they had to show for it were some measly minutes of footage, hell! i think it was even less than a minute!

that game will not be released, and if the FPS is anything to go by, at best we are gonna end up getting the interactive equivalent of those pivot animations!

You have fair points, but that's where the creative headache comes in: I don't think inputs are bad, quite the contrary. It's just that FGs rarely if ever put an effort in making the learning process a seemless experience.
Like said, there could be some sort of challenges & minigames within a Story Mode or some kind of content that would teach these without it feeling like a chore. It's the biggest challenge a FG has to overcome if it doesn't want to resort to more or less casualisation, though as you've said, a middle ground can be found & appreciated by many already, but I think it's not necessary THE solution.

I do follow the scene very closely, and fighting games are literally the poverty section of Esports. Don't have to look further than the prize pools to see that.

It'll always be a niche. Difference is that in MOBAs and Fortnite the most casual player can win against the most competitive player since they're dozens of factors that could affect your chances of winning.

Whereas in any fighting game the best player molded by any casual system will get DESTROYED by any professional player. Then what's the option? Labbing - and in a way too ambiguous for zoomers since it's almost a nebulous mode without any "real" feedback: you spend xxx hours against AI doing the same thing, uncovering unknowns, perfecting them, AND then you have a chance to play competitive. In this age most zoomers would just find something with a shorter reward curve.

Of course people say "fighting games have such a lower viewer count why play them" as if Twitch views and monetary gain is the validation to play any of them but does that stop people from playing any other genre?

They straight up said they'll be "going dark for a while after the announcement, so don't expect anything soon"

I'm gonna give it more time before declaring them liars.

That's a very good point. A single player experience that was actually engaging that taught you the inputs would certainly make learning them easier than sitting in the training stage with some inputs on the side that you have to perform once in order to pass the stage and expect you to have learned it.

Honestly, fighting games blow me away with how behind they seem on the most basic levels of gaming. I mean it's 2020 and a good lobby is non existent, training mode is usually barebones, tutorials are mostly trash, and even the online is still unplayable in most cases.

Makes me sad I fell in love with this genre sometimes.

>internet isn't stable due to everyone in our apartment complex being online at the same time
>can't play fighting games
>even people in the same state as me get 4 frames

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Accessibility won't save them. They need content, QoL features that should be expected. Devs need to publicly push more community things like events. Online training mode and voice chat would do wonders for this genre.

So you're clearly full of shit. Okay. Hey, before you actually pull threads like these, actually look at entrants for tournaments before saying a scene is dying, you fucking poser.

Honestly, as bad as unstable internet is, I truly think the worst part of it is the netcode these games use.

I saw a tweet from sonicfox in the US the other day saying he was playing g01 in Japan online in skullgirls on WIFI and it was still more playable than most delay based games from a single state away.

Obviously hard wired should be what everyone runs, but these devs are not helping the situation. I have fiber optic internet where I'm from, and play my friends who live about 200 miles away who also have fiber optic hardwired connections, and we still get a fluctuating 2-4 frames when playing dbfz online.

It's not that fighting games are not accessible enough. I mean, that is a bit of an issue but the bigger issue is just that fighting games are not that fun to most people for non-casual long term play. It's too samey. MOBAs and BRs have done so well because they almost always shake down differently. While yes of course there are differences from match to match they don't really feel significant, especially when compared to other genres that can have events happen at different points of the map, with drastically different characters and approaches. Fightings are more or less "solved" pretty quickly and since most characters fall into 1 of ~5 styles, the biggest difference ends up being the thematic style of the character and visuals of the moves. It gets stale to most people.

Something I also didn't mention is they could facilitate the means to access players of your level or with the same intent as you, through large lobbies or Tournaments akin to what's in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Just a place that you can name, say " Beginner practice " or " X Main Matchup Practice " and everyone can come & find someone that fits the bill. Have that along with the usual Ranked mode.
For as much as people praise & like to make groups in various social media for their favorite Fightans, it will never reach the amount of people an effort done by the game would have.

I'm not saying the scene is dying, I'm saying that in the modern era of esports, the FGC is lagging behind big time in terms of developer support, prize pools, etc.

The current gen of pros consists of a lot of old blood who aren't well off by any means. They spent their life grinding these games in hopes of winning a few grand at evo. It's not about the money obviously, but at what point does the next generation of potential professional gamers look at fighting games and say to themselves

"If i work my ass off I could maybe get sponsored to fly to some events and come out the other end with no career prospects"

vs

"If I can win this one valorant tournament, I can probably retire"

Under Night did some accessibility stuff, I'm pretty sure. I remember the tutorial explaining how to move my joystick in order to complete the DP motion.
THey had a tutorial for all of the game's mechanics and honestly it was a bit overwhelming so I would take bite sized chunks and get my ass beat online for a day or two and see what information would be useful next.
Plus, it has that Smart Steer function so even supernoobs can just mash A for a full combo. I think what's supposed to happen is
>person picks up character
>uses smart steer
>wow that was really cool. i wonder what other combos there are?
>open up mission mode
>sees a bunch of shit
>either chooses a new character or sticks to this character because they really like them
>gets to more complex motions, opens tutorial if necessary

>Do fighting games need to become more accessible
Absolutely. The world is changing, each year we have more and more games to play and have less and less time to do so. It's impossible to continue with those autistically deep games where you fuck up once and watch yourself being comboed for 15 seconds and 70% of damage. Games like that will just lose players.
>b-but Tekken
SF, Tekken and MK don't count because those are just meme franchises and will always sell no matter what.

I guess I only see this being relevant in any way as a popularity contest. And that popularity contest is motivated by money. Whether it's Smash or DBZ or Tekken or SF in my opinion there are enough and more than enough players to warrant the continuation of those games. But it's this bullshit "My team or hobby or what the fuck ever is better than yours" that spurs on this new player accessibility shit.

And every one wants to act like its some noble everyone is welcome here mantra but it's just a bragging to say my chosen game is more popular than your chosen game and behind or beyond that it's just greedy fucks trying to figure out how to get more people to buy their product.

Let each do it's own thing, if you don't like it move over to one you do, if you don't like any of them, MAYBE, just maybe, fighting games aren't your thing and you should try something else. ANd honestly this goes for all games you as an individual are not and shouldn't feel entitled to enjoy or be able to play competitively on every game that comes out. Just accept there are some things you're not good at and/or aren't interested in getting good at and move on.

I would disagree, the FGC/EVO crowd goes where the playercount/fanbase exists. Smash pushed its way back in with it. F2P, best in genre netcode and a popular IP with good marketing tactics is literally the recipe to storm the genre.

It doesn't have to be a good fighting game, like Mortal Kombat showed. You need visuals, and a story/campaign

Couldn't agree more. The online matchmaking in general needs to be completely overhauled in every fighting game I can think of, as well as any type of lobby system.

These fighting game devs just expect these games to survive through offline play despite online being where every modern multiplayer game gets the most playtime. Online needs to stop being an afterthought.

Sidescrolling gameplay is always going to turn off normies, more so if you use low quality 3D models, that screenshot looks like a phone game

I think you have a point to an extent, but if fighting games don't grow, then they risk being left behind.

Looking at it from my perspective, it isn't about being more popular than other games, it's about the professional scene thriving still when developers and players begin to realize they could put their effort into other style games and be much more rewarded.

Eventually it all comes down to dollars, and I'm just curious as to whether fighting game devs are going to continue sinking dollars into games that are so difficult to bring people into.

Agreed. I think project L could be the beginning of a new generation of fighting game players and the beginning of a huge spike even bigger than SF4s release that seemed to revive the FGC.

Yeah dude lets change the one genre of games i like because some dickheads with ADD have to play every single game that comes out.

Yeah dude lets continue to make games with dead online which only 10 autists in the world will play.

Making the game more accessible isn't going to magically make shitters git gud. I am looking forward to stomping all of my friends who play league and are looking forward to this game

Good point. If I want to feel better about all the stuff I've learned in the last 9 months of fighting games, this would be the time.