He shot up a hospital and doomed humanity

It's been proven the fireflies were bullshitting and couldn't make a cure

>without her consent
Maybe, but had she been given the choice she'd have agreed to the procedure and Joel knew this.

>sterile genetic failures
She was adopted

Maybe in a "word of God" sense but even then Joel wouldn't know that.

And the game doesn't address that.

No further explanation on Joel's part. Just murder. If you wanted to kill him off, do it at the end.

Joel killed WHITE PEOPLE

HOLY FUCK

It's one life vs 8 billion you selfish dick

keep lying to make yourself feel better

>Ellie was a monster this whole time
Bravo Neil..

the "cure" wasn't going to work you complete fucking idiot.

That's bullshit, that would completely compromise the conflict in Part 2. The central struggle of Ellie is avenging a man who doomed humanity and coming to terms that she is selfishly perpetuating a cycle of revenge against the person who killed him

>Fireflies could have told him and Ellie about what they wanted to do
>Joel and Ellie could have calmly made a choice
>Ellie would have chosen to die for a vaccine, and since it was her choice, Joel would have accepted it
Instead they decide to lie to the little girl and murder her in her sleep and force Joel to leave at gunpoint without being able to say goodbye to her.

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Here we go again. It doesn't matter because Joel wouldn't have been sensible and decided to just let her be donated for the cause in the event that the cure or vaccine or whatever was 100% viable, because he's an emotionally broken cunt who only gives a shit about his own needs and fuck everyone else. Therefore, his gesture was symbolic in nature and indicative of the morals that he personally holds as an individual, so any argument about the Fireflies' incompetence is entirely moot.

I thought it was a Firefly base? haha remember fireflies?

My obligation is to the ones who do right by me, my friends and family. The the theives who want to prey on the innocent can suck a dick no matter how numerous. I'm not going to spit on the love of my comrades for the sake of my enemies.

>shot up a hospital and doomed humanity
Based
Joel is a fucking hero

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>muh 1 in a billion chance vaccine
Literally just don't get bitten

The firefly leader was a nigger. Also I don't giv e a fuck what race they are I'd kill em all so save my daughterfu.

>Maybe, but had she been given the choice she'd have agreed to the procedure and Joel knew this.
She was like 14 years old. The vaccine was not guaranteed by any means. They were gonna extract the fungus in her brain to run lab tests on it.

Nothing close. Even if it did, it would be like giving the cure to the same people who run CHAZ. None of them deserved shit from him or Ellie.

This honestly, the clickers are dumb as fuck

Vaccines don't work against fungus ya dingus.

Ellie doomed humanity by being a lesbian and not trying to pass on her immune genes.

You don't know shit about themes and narrative, the entire point of part 2 hinges on the fact that Joel selfishly saved one person while immediately killing the people actually trying to save the world

Only a million? You must not care about your daughter that much.

You only have to kill 3 people. You can sneak past all the Fireflies.

>Ellie's bites spread the immunity

Imagine what a twist this would have been for the second game

Refute this, retard. The fireflies were morons and got what they deserved.

>daughterfu
That daughter was more than happy to sacrifice herself to save the world and her selfish guardian didn't want to lose another emotional crutch.

Joel dying isn't the problem, nobody dying or not dying isn't the problem. The problem is the hackneyed writing.
It's a middle of the road story told in the most hamfisted way possible.
Also, the Fireflies, at least in the first game, were incompetent losers who lost to one guy. You think a bunch of crazy commie lunatic butchers can carve out a cure from a person?
What are they going to do, grind up her brain and eat it?
Do you think they had high tech genomic equipment to even sequence her genome to explore what might be causing her resistance, much less the ability to synthesize the gene therapies to confer that unto other people?
They were going to carve her up, notice that it didn't infect her nervous system somehow, and shrug their idiot shoulders.
It was a stupid presentation in the last game. It sucked back then, and Joel was right.

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>wear a gasmask due to spores
>don't cover their ears at all
I'm no fungus doctor, but wouldn't fungal spores be able to get inside of your ear and spread and fuck you up also?

When you say he doomed humanity you say that fireflies were able to make the vaccine, which they 100% weren't

except that she didn't give consent. Isn't that big these days, giving conesnt and stuff and assuming you can just do whatever with someone's body?

>She was like 14 years old.
Doesn't matter, it's what she would have wanted and, although she probably wasn't aware of what the procedure would entail, she'd have likely sacrificed herself in the name of progress, and age has nothing to do with that. There's no age restriction on becoming a savior of humanity.
>The vaccine was not guaranteed by any means. They were gonna extract the fungus in her brain to run lab tests on it.
It doesn't matter because Joel wouldn't have been sensible and decide to just let her be donated for the cause, in the event that the cure or vaccine or whatever was 100% viable, because he's an emotionally broken cunt who only gives a shit about his own needs and fuck everyone else. Therefore, his gesture was symbolic in nature and indicative of the morals that he personally holds as an individual, so any argument about the Fireflies' incompetence is entirely moot.

and? girls like ellie die all the fucking time for less. of course, the only reasonable path is to slice ellie the fuck open regardless of outcomes.

I bet you're a fucking woman lol

>go through hell to get to the hospital
>on second thoughts let's shoot our way out and go home

it doesn't matter, Ellie was a coping mechanism for the loss of his bio cunny

>muh daughter

>muh dad

you're a dumb motherfucker if you think she had any choice in the matter

Because it was a necessary moral sacrifice. They were trying to save the fucking world, sure there's flavor text about their failures but thematically the important thing is that joel and ellie are on the wrong side of a life-and-death impersonal conflict.
In this world YOU and EVERYONE YOU LOVE is dead because one sentimental fucktard killed dozens of people to save some kid that made him nostalgic for his actual daughter

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I hope that pendejo burns in hell. Pure evil psychopath, fags only see him as hero because they want to fuck the ugly little girl he "saved".

not just assuming*

>big these days
Yeah, consent is real huge in a post apocalyptic hellscape where the death of one person could potentially save millions of lives

Even if they could make a cure it would be impossible to distribute

WHY IS Zig Forums MORE OFTEN THAN NOT DEFENDING THIS PIECE OF SHIT GAME?
IT CAN'T BE JUST BECAUSE KOTAKU AND POLYGON HATE IT TOO? RIGHT? ALL OF THE OPINIONS YOU ALL HAD UP TO THIS POINT CAN'T BE JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL HOPELESS CONTRARIANS? RIGHT???? RIGHT???????

Sounds like a nasty infection but it would have to pierce through the eardrum to reach e-tubes

>i bet you're a fucking woman
I'm not. I just have an IQ over 100 that's not sub 70 like yours.

neither her or joel were informed it would KILL HER though, it wasn't until after they knocked her out they mentioned it to joel
we have no way of knowing if ellie would have consented to euthanasia but they didn't give her a choice about it at all
even if the cure would have been produced it was still a scumfuck way of going about it

>It's okay to murder because vitue is not convenient in this situation
youtube.com/watch?v=WU_hO9Ei5Q0

Why does he owe you? You say it is selfish of him but in reality it is the opposite. The fireflies selfishly will kill whomever to save themselves.

what do you think?

>Because it was a necessary moral sacrifice
Spending a day letting Ellie and Joel talk over the plans would have been no big deal. There was no reason for them to be as gung ho with the surgery as they were.

>Oh hahah I forgot this series is fundamentally at odds with the medium it takes place in
spbp

Just like how getting infected blood all over their faces regularly would infect them too? No one is ever consistent when it comes to zombies.

Lol you storyshits crying because a hero died have been overly conditioned by capeshit not to accept that good guys can die.
Just because the story took turns you don't like doesn't make it bad.
Some of the greatest stories ever told involve sympathetic characters early on you lowtest fucks

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>He shot up a hospital
First of all, no. You aren't forced to kill anyone but one (1) person in the whole hospital segment.
And even if you were forced to, and? He shot up a hospital full of TERRORISTS. Did you fucking forget who the Fireflies are?
Did Cuckmans shitty flashback with Abby's dad saving some shitty fucking zoo animal fuck your mind that hard into forgetting these fucks were literal terrorists?

real easy to be on your moral high horse when you have no one who care for is at stake for it. I don't give a fuck about "muh greater good" if it costs the life of someone I love.

>it's okay to murder
We're dealing with degrees of bad where most if not all options are terrible. Grow the fuck up.

>NOOOOO YOU HAVE TO KILL THE LITTLE GIRL FOR A INFANTILE CHANCE AT A VACCINE
>YOU OWE ME A VACCINE ITS NOT MY FAULT I'M TOO RETARDED TO NOT GET BITTEN AND BREATHE CLICKER FART
Based Joel refusing to interfere with natural selection

The Fireflies didn't even try to talk Joel down. They literally asked Marlene to kill him after bringing them the supposed savior of humanity. A bunch of retards dicking around, getting their asses kicked and fomenting uprisings. Fuck the Fireflies.

But those fungus spores grow crazy. You wouldnt be able to get them out and they would start to grow and spread into the surrounding tissue and then into the bloodstream and boom you go all Clicker.

>violence bad
>now do all this rad violence

Nobody in this thread said him dying was an issue.

They also rarely change their clothes after walking through that stuff and being covered in all types of blood and guts. Everyone can heal from near-fatal wounds with a rag and rubbing alcohol, they run backwards, keep their flashlights on and walk around in front of zombies without being noticed, etc. It's just a movie, don't think about it too hard.

That's exactly why TLOU2 is a piece of shit.
The ending of TLOU is perfect (and btw I don't even like the game, im not a fan of The Last of Us but the first game HAD a good narrative, you can't deny that) the ending is left open for you to decide if Joel did the right thing or not. You have enough evidence the fireflies were full of shit but at the same time they could be telling the truth so Joel makes a decision that mirrors the beggining of thegame, also lying to Ellie at the end.
But now? Fuck all that Joel is SUPER EVIL HE DOOMED HUMANITY, and that doctor you killed? The same doctor we forced you to kill? He was a father too... look all these flashbacks how he was a loving father you murderer piece of shit, JOEL IS EEEEVILLLLLL.

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>anyone in this story being sympathetic
>implying the writing is good enough
I’m laughing

But muh immersion!

Fuck off, you piece of shit retard cockmongling sack of decrepit fetus flesh
>Fireflies could have told him and Ellie about what they wanted to do
True
>Joel and Ellie could have calmly made a choice
True
>Ellie would have chosen to die for a vaccine, and since it was her choice, Joel would have accepted it
True
>Instead they decide to lie to the little girl and murder her in her sleep and force Joel to leave at gunpoint without being able to say goodbye to her.
All true. However, as shady as their actions were, it could be argued that this sort of thing - that is, the very existence and future of human life - shouldn't be up for debate. Do you think that Joel would have just taken this lying down? Maybe the mere utterance of their intentions was enough for him to go apeshit on them without any prior provocation. Joel is an unhinged and reckless individual when he's fighting against all odds for something he wants. At that point, do you think his actions would have been any less justified? Somehow I don't think you would object. Not only that, but let's not forget that moral bankruptcy from one party does not excuse your own moral bankruptcy.

its less the good guy died, and that the torchbearer of the good guy proceeded to go on a bloody rampage until they decided last-second to not actually kill the person responsible for good guy's death
theres like, 15 fucking levels of dipshittery to the plot and reducing it to 'muh joel' is just fucking disingenuous

how are you gonna distribute a vaccine when civilization has collapsed? the fireflies arent gonna just hand it out you brainlet they would use it as leverage

I never saw Joel save any Zebras so..

You're a mouth breathing fucktard pseud. Joel was 100% in the right. The fireflies were only desperate to justify their existence, and they found their scapegoat in Ellie.

Joel's no hero, he's a thug. The fireflies stole his guns, and his surrogate daughter. So of course he shot up the hospital full of fireflies, and he was justified in doing so.

Are you going to kill an innocent or not? It's a binary choice, you only see it as grey because you're too afraid of suffering and death to support the morally just choice. Memento mori, no matter who or how many you save everyone will someday die regardless, all that really matters is keeping clean hands.

Ellie killed a heckin doggo
Abby didnt
checkmate

Well then thats your weakness as a person and as an animal, people like you would make it impossible to get society back on track because you don't care about society.

the fireflies were also borderline retarded and had no guarantee of even keeping the cure safe. remember when they lost a safehouse because they let a fucking zombie monkey out of its cage?

don't forget
>ellie kills the heckin doggo don't you hate her now?!
>guess what? abby really liked that same doggo.
>FORGET THAT SHE KILLED YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTER NOW YOU DUMB GOYS. LOVE ABBY

>their first action after obtaining a immune person is to slice her brain out

those doctors weren't going to make shit

Slice your fucking throat, you worthless braindead nigger monkey cock holster. Fucking faggot ass bitch.

This game, just from watching streamers on Twitch, is not for the average gamer. Gamers are fucking stupid. If you're an Ellie apologist by the end of the game and not wanting Abby to exact her measured, reasonable justice on Ellie then just don't bother with complexity. Go play Spongebob or Barbie or some braindead fps.

You sound fat.

The fact that Ellie didn't consent to it means they weren't cool with asking her and informing her how it would actually save the world and probably means it wouldn't have.
Joel is justified in killing that doctor because the doctor was going to kill her for basically nothing.

1. is this real
2. what the fuck does it mean

Been playing the game for a while, nearly at the end. First half with Ellie was pretty fucking great; but everything with Abby has been nearly all horrible.
The gameplay and graphics are pretty fucking great though. I just want a game filled with buildings to clear of badguys and rope/ladder/jump puzzles to solve with no story.

Sure are a whole lot of people in here that think vaccine = cure.

heckin' good boy

I don't give a fuck. I'm living in peace with my daughterfu

NOT THE HOSPITAL

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yeah and that's why it's garbage, your themes are narrative fall flat on their face when the decision you're trying to shit on is 100% justifiable.

he killed a cult and a retarded schizo doctor that wanted to butcher a girl to find a cure... a doctor that never heard of biopsies or taking blood samples.

lol

They can prevent people from becoming mushroom people

Ellie kills dogs
Abby _____ dogs

People don't have an issue with him dying you fucking idiot. It's how he died and how much the game wants you to sympathize with his killer.

"fungal vaccine"
Lol.

You best fucking believe I'd shoot up a hospital over my daughter. Even an adopted one. Or my mom. Or my sister.

t. fell for Cuckmans deliberate manipulation and thinks he's the smart one

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The fireflies were useless tards who made things worse wherever they went. Besides humanity is getting by fine enough.

Eat shit and immolate yourself you brain dead rectally prolapsed cumdumpster dick fencing faggot bitch

>read biopsies as boypussies
i need to get off the internet

>Joel was 100% in the right.
Joel's a fucking hick who was told plain as day the importance of the research and disregarded it because muh rekindled fatherhood instincts.
He obviously canonically did not read the firefly research so all he knew was that he was destroying the cure to save ellie, otherwise he would have told ellie about their research.
It's obvious that the authorial design here is that the cure would have worked if joel fucked off, otherwise Part 2's conflict would make no sense

Shit already exists. Stupid Fireflies.

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he did his duty as a surrogate father. id kill all you cunts and doom your children to a life of pain and misery to save my daughter's life.
he was bound to die of course, anybody with half a brain could see it coming, but it was done in such a retarded way.

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Reminder that there is no cure for this. This person is fucking dead.

>vaccine
What the fuck would it do anyway? Everyone still alive at this point is sitting in a community somewhere and if they don't die from a zombie bite they'll die from an infection at 35 after a life of farming jenkem, or a fucking racoon bite for that matter. How many little girls are getting butchered over rabies vaccines?

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>Part 2's conflict would make no sense
It fucking doesn't you idiot, why do you think so many people are shitting on it?

>Owen confronting Abby about her selfish desire for vengeance
>They have sex, she doesn't need to answer anyone
>Abby has to chose between fighting off Isaac and the wlf or giving up Lev
>Uh nope Yara kills Isaac and Abby and Lev just run off.
>Abby is about to kill Dina, knowing she's pregnant, potentially making her even more consumed with vengeance than Ellie
>Nope Lev is there to tell her no
>Any time Abby has to make a hard choice or confront her own flaws something comes and saves her from doing so.

Reminder that the fireflies were a bunch of incompetent idiots, the game lets you know that they had already tried operating on several inmune people to create a vaccine and they always failed. Ellie was gonna be no different, there was no way they were gonna get a vaccine out of her. even if they were they still didnt have the resources to distribute it in a way that mattered, even if they did they were still too corrupt.

Also TLOU2 is utter shit, but I think aged Joel's design in that game is god tier. The graphics make him look really cool, his beard and hair look really nice. Too bad they killed him off like that, such a waste

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