Sonic and Mario Mandates

On the discussion on both the Paper Mario lack of creativity and Sonic Forces copy paste gameplay, what is really happening with SEGA and Nintendo? are the higher ups are just too controlling?

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I think it's something cyclical with the way brands are handled. The 90s and 2000s saw a lot of brands being re-imagined and expanded as new people were brought on board. Now we're seeing a contraction of those brands as they try to make them more marketable for nostalgia.

IMO, it's them transitioning into "legacy brands." It's like polishing them up before you put them in the museum. They're getting rid of all the "excess" and honing them down into something without context.

so they gonna end up as museum pieces of now on? what a way to go for an younger IP like them.

Yes, by which I mean they'll be stripped of everything interesting and turned into rehashed prepackaged content for future generations. Like Mickey Mouse.

Corporations in a nutshell, everything that was built for them will be filtered up and focus tested like some kind of S3 Plan in MGS2
Is there's some kind of way to stop this? or is it gonna happen etherway.

>are the higher ups are just too controlling?
On the contrary, they aren't controlling enough. Forces was the result of Sega's relatively youngbloods and Paper Mario is down to no one reigning in Tanabe.

You might be a little retarded user.

>Yes, by which I mean they'll be stripped of everything interesting and turned into rehashed prepackaged content for future generations
It's funny that you think that given that's exactly what people want from Sonic and Paper Mario.

they aren't people

they're consumers

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Of course they are and they're not wrong.
Both series are in a fairly experimental state right now and haven't produced anything of quality. Meanwhile Mania and Odyssey were utterly fantastic because they didn't really move out of the box and improved what they had in the first place.

>Of course they are and they're not wrong.

No.

>Both series are in a fairly experimental state right now and haven't produced anything of quality.
this is objectively false

>this is objectively false
Which is what you would like to believe. Meanwhile the tone and gameplay of the two is in a constantly shifting state. I mean, can you really say that Forces is anything like Lost World or that the combat in OK is the same as it was before?

Sonic was never good

Both series have systematically had their scope pared down until the only things allowed to be referenced are from a narrow window of the series' early history. Sonic isn't even allowed to reference previous games for fear of creating continuity.

It's delusional to pretend that the series are more "experimental" now than before.

Not him but Forces is a reversion away from the experimental stuff like lost world or boom.

Mario’s gameplay is usually decent to solid but the world has been made so fucking boring. NSMB has crept into god damned everything. Odyssey is the one exception, time will tell if it’s a return to form or a pleasant one-off. This is what many people are complaining about. You look at how wildly unique and creative every game up to 64 was, then look at the last decade where it’s the same shit with different levels or a gameplay gimmick. Difference is night and day.

Something like LM3 might be charming but it isnt really interesting at all.

>Sonic isn't even allowed to reference previous games for fear of creating continuity.
>Colors and Generations have direct narrative connections
>Forces outright features Zavok and the Egg Dragoon as bosses and makes references to locations like Seaside Hill in dialogue
There's a difference between "fear of creating continuity" and Sonic Team typically just not caring about continuity and doing whatever the hell they want.

>Sonic isn't even allowed to reference previous games
Despite the fact that it does. Hell Forces is quite literally a sequel to Mania

Better Kirby.

>NSMB has crept into god damned everything.
Not really, since it's inception its pretty much been self contained to itself as much as people want to whine about it.

It is what killed the RPG games since they aren't allowed to deviate from the formula anymore.

>but it isnt really interesting at all.
To you.

>It is what killed the RPG games
Yeah no. What killed PM was the exact opposite SPM deviated far too much and received complaints from both fans and Nintendo despite its recent rise popularity but too little too late.

SPM is what caused Nintendo to reign in the creativity. And I agree even TTYD went a bit too far in a few places, but they didn't need to dial it all the way back on the other direction.

Sonic & Mario are part of the old guard in the 90s. They’re irrelevant now. Coomer games are the future.

>Both series are in a fairly experimental state right now
how is sonic in an "experimental state" right now? all they do anymore is rehash boostshit, rehash the genesis games, or try to do both at the same time. the last sonic game that was remotely experimental was black knight over a decade ago.
paper mario is quickly reaching this point too now that it's on the third straight game of sticker star "gameplay."
in both cases, it's because of the developers listening to tasteless autists - for sonic, it's classicucks and e-celebs; for mario, it's miyamoto.

odyssey is still boring, but the reason why it's slightly less boring than the rest of the series nowadays is because koizumi has enough clout to tell miyamoto to fuck off.
mario is going to sink further and further into mediocrity until miyamoto retires. his ego has ruined the franchise.

retard

they're experimenting to see how many times you can play green hill zone

I think it's off Miyamoto's hands now and more on the coorporate/marketer side, and Koizumi is the only one willing to challenge them.

Mandates are the democrats of video games.

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>the last sonic game that was remotely experimental was black knight over a decade ago
Lost World. Hell, that game might have been better if the devs didn't try doing a bunch of weird experimental stuff like a stealth-focused level, a level where Sonic can randomly fly, a level where you have to run away from a giant fuzzy pac-man, etc.

I'm not really sure what they devs were thinking with some of that shit.

Sonic Team is just incompetent.
Sonic Forces is built off Sonic Lost World, not Sonic Generations/Unleashed.

Have you played Lost World 3DS? Sonic controls great in that, the parkour is much better (more momentum based, as is Sonic in general). The level design is pants past the first world though.

I have, actually. You're just trading weird gimmick levels for heavy Wisp-focused levels that last way too long from what I remember.

Paper Jam did bring back a lot of famous and well liked bosses like Petty Piranha but the way they were utilized was terrible. In the story when you confront either Bowser Jr. or Kamek, they would just drop a boss on you that will be defeated and that's the end of it. I personally find that lazy when you compare it to the previous entries. In SuperStar Saga there were a bunch of areas that felt lived in and were funto explore. Chuckola Woods is a great example in how while going through the zone you learn all about Chuckola Cola and how it's made through various interactions based on the players involvement. By the end you fight theChuckolator, a concoction that the founder has been working on for a 1000 years, defeating it feels like you've mastered the area and all it had to throw at you when you leave. Petey Piranha is one of my favorite bosses but he didn't really 'stick' in Paper Jam, the playable world should compliment him whenyou're building up towards the battle.

In short, mandates are a crutch and without enthusiasm behind them, the concept will be underutilized.

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Yeah there are 3 bad offenders that immediately come to mind.
It's really obvious that these Sonic games aren't really thought through that well.