Do games need to be fun?

Does twitter threads need to be banned?

Yes they're video games.
Not movies
Not art.

He's not wrong but your average "gamer" doesn't have enough emotional intelligence to see that.

>Private Ryan wasn't fun
A pleb and a faggot, what a combo.

They could have just said art doesnt have to be fun but they always go full retard.

I really am tired of people pretending TLOU2 story wasn't hot fucking garbage. They'll never admit it was bad though, because they just hide behind a few different strawman arguments
>you're just mad about Joel!
>you're just mad about Ellie being gay!
>you're just mad about Abby being stronk!
>you're just mad about Lev being transish
You can type out fucking paragraphs about why the story is undeniably bad and they'll either just block you or use one of the above "counters"

Yes. The difference between a game and a movie is that you only have to invest two hours of your life to watching a movie like Schnidler's List, or even something like Martyrs or any of the million other movies that are bleak and miserable and depressing. You invest some time, you get the message, and you can move on with your life. You can, if you enjoyed the experience of being depressed or grossed out or whatever, watch them again, but you only have to invest a small amount of time in to get the message and understand why people think they're worth the time.

But a game requires way, way more than that. Why would you want to go back time after time and rack up hour after hour of playtime if you're not enjoying it? Just so you can get the long, drawn-out, badly told message of the plot? If the goal is the plot, why have the gameplay at all? What does the gameplay add to The Last of Us 2? Why would a bleak, miserable story need to be broken up by boring, uninspired combat sections that don't advance the narrative in any way? Why make it a game when you could just make it a movie?

If you need to put in 20-60 hours just to get the message the media is trying to convey, and none of those hours are enjoyable, then it's probably not media that is using it's format particularly effectively.

Do they need to be fun? No. Do they need to be fun to be good? Yes.

why else do you play a game?

Ye

Dark Souls is gloomy, serious and brutal. It's not a fun world at all, but playing it gives enjoyment. TLOU2 doesn't come across to me, as being fun in ANY sense of the word. It's just serious, gloomy and boring. Same vibe, very different result.

It's all political. If the game had Joel as the PC again and it was still a shit game people wouldn't be defending it.

>Comparing a madium where the intention is to be deliverd passive entertainment (movies) to a medium that users must activly interact with

Schindler's list is a must goy, never forget the six million

dead on
crazy, it's almost as if a good narrative is based around the teller controlling the release of information to give a rewarding structure.
And an medium that requires input from the audience will suffer because it can't do that

That's not true at all and just says more about what you've played, rather than video games.

It's not about fucking fun.
Games need to be engaging.
Games *require* player inputs, those inputs don't come from thin air like the next frame when you're watching a movie.
To say that games must be "fun" ignores the actual thing they need to be: engaging

Gotta be engaging on some level.
A game isn't going to be fun for everyone. Some people don't find stealth games or puzzle games or survival horror particularly fun, but might play a genre example anyway because it's got great music, weird characters, or just shitloads of anime tits on display.

Private Ryan is under two hours, TLOU2 is over 30 and keeps bashing you with a dead horse saying you're a bad person.

Movies and books can be engaging.

>video GAMES comparison is made
>instead of comparing video GAMES to board GAMES or card GAMES or ball GAMES or any other GAMES they get compared to movies or books or other completely different mediums

Why does this happen?

I really don't think It's hot garbage, it's exactly what I expect to get from a video game story. which would be fine since the story is just a background factor to support the gameplay. But TLOU2's gameplay is bad

I'm probably in the minority here but
>The gameplay could actually be pretty fun
>The story is easily the weakest part of the game

All in all, TLO2 failed in more than one way in my book

Attached: spood.jpg (261x193, 8.94K)

It's just so tiring. These are the people claiming that games are art, yet when one that supports their politics gets criticized, they'll bend over fucking backwards to insist it's a true masterpiece that cannot be criticized.

yeah no shit, they don't need to be fun either. Fun isn't in the vocabulary when you design a piece of media

>this medium doesn't have to be fun because other media don't have to be fun
i dont see anything wrong with that

The movies aren't "fun" but they are entertaining in a cinematic sense. Video games entertainment is mainly derived from the gameplay, so it stands to reason video entertainment is tied to gameplay. If a movie like SPR had the same level of entertainment as a video game with bad gameplay did, instead of a well written, compact story it would be a hyper realistic bore. With the sitting around for hours, going to the bathroom normally, sitting around, etc. The message would still be the exact same, but the entertainment of it would be driven down.

No but a game should remember it's a game and use that to its advantage.
TLOU2 is a bog standard 3rd person shooter that thinks gore and cutscenes telling you to feel sad is the same thing as making an unfun game.
Pathologic and The Void are games where the gameplay is intertwined with the narrative and with how the player is meant to be, leading it to be more immersive as a result even if they aren't exactly fun games.
The people defending TLOU 2 are braindeads who ate up the hollow Oscar Bait like SIE and ND want them too, and almosr certainly are the type to think the MCU is "art" too.

Attached: 20200302_055641.jpg (384x277, 58.01K)

Thing here is that TLOU is a very heavily story-focused game.

Take out the story and it's an alright third person adventure game, and comparing it to a movie is a bit silly, a movie can be "unfun" but a game's story is irrelevant as long as the gameplay is good, and if the gameplay is good, that means that it's fun, rigth? Or at least engaging or adictive, If the cutscenes are horrible well, that's another thing entirely. If TLOU2 was unfun to play, that would be a problem.

Attached: 1595676723033.gif (500x400, 340.74K)

Because TLOU2 is a movie with no gameplay

No, video games are a means of entertainment, the bare minimum it needs to be is at least entertaining. That usually involves enjoying it.

If you don't have to press buttons while reading an engaging book or watching an engaging movie then a video game doesn't require button presses to be engaging either.

Macaroni art isn't food

It's literally the same issue with the Star Wars sequel trilogy and Ghostbusters 2016.
To this day, there are still people dying on the hill to defend these turds. They aren't actually doing it to defend the movies, but rather to defend their political views.

Yes if I am spending upwards of 50 on a game it needs to be fun

>Schindler's List
>Saving Private Ryan
>not mindless american entertainment

No, but games like TLoU2 are still fun, and have narrative dissonance out the ass because of this. Pathologic actually isn't fun.

It was a great story and your paragraphs of bullshit and inability to understand it doesn't change that.

Yes. game could have the best story ever, but if it's not fun to play, then why bother?

This. Saving Private Ryan is a goofy action movie disguised as a war drama.

>should entertainment be entertaining
The absolute state of pretentious snoys

Yes. A game becomes a chore otherwise.

the difference is the "unfun" films they keep going back to are about people doing extraordinary things in a time commonly considered to be shit for most involved, fighting against actual Nazis however they could

TLOU2 is a halfbaked revenge story in a contrived post apocalyptic setting

The story really is fucking bad though. The first games story wasn't anything original, but it at least was told well. The sequels plot is all over the fucking place, and it's entirely driven by the characters being so fucking stupid that they make constant mistakes for others to follow
>Abbys group knew that they were going to Tommys compound in Jackson to try and find Joel. So they knew that it would be a group there
>Despite this they all wore their WLF jackets, advertising that they're from Washington. They then let both Tommy and Ellie live, despite both of them having seen the jackets. Not only did they let them live, but they never even anticipated that they might go after them for revenge
>Ellie carries around a map where she fucking circles the theater her and Dina are using as a safe house, and Dina is bedridden inside the theater. There's absolutely no fucking reason for Ellie to do this, and it's only done so that later Abby can see the dropped map and track them down
>Despite having Dina lock the front door of the theater each time she leaves, Ellie and Dina never actually secured the perimeter of the theater, which is why Abby was able to just waltz in an open window on the second floor
The story is fucking awful because characters that have survived for decades in this apocalypse make absolutely rookie mistakes, and in some cases like with the map, make mistakes that you can't even begin to justify.

The idea that Schnidler's List, or The Last of Us 2, or really most stories, are all about communicating a "message" is fucking retarded. You live in an alternate reality if you think people are not enjoying The Last of Us 2 for 30 hours but then they "get the message" and they say it was good.

because the best story ever is more entertaining and worthwhile than a typical fun game

I thought it was fun. Watching Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan is also fun - they're very well made films.

>You live in an alternate reality if you think people are not enjoying The Last of Us 2 for 30 hours but then they "get the message" and they say it was good.
I didn't say anything of the sort and you are objectively too illiterate to respond to if you think that's what I said.

Saving Private Ryan is fun to watch and so is Schindler's List if you're of a certain persuasion.
youtube.com/watch?v=9rMbxmQmo94

Attached: heinzdidnothingwrong.jpg (600x574, 126.13K)

>contrived
Why has Zig Forums suddenly started randomly using this word? Is it just one of those words people use to try and make their arguments sound more sophisticated? How is the post apocalyptic setting contrived?

Yes.

PLAYING the game should be fun, or a better word is "rewarding" maybe. The story doesn't have to be.

Attached: maxresdefault (10).jpg (1280x720, 75.79K)