"stay in your goddamn borders and be kind to one another, but e ready in case shit goes haywire"

Yes Volgin nuked Solokov's facility but that was a DIFFERENT part of the story. The part of the story I'm talking about is
>After Snake defeated Volgin and destroyed Sokolov's Shagohod, with the help of EVA, The Boss destroyed Groznyj Grad and Graniny Gorki with the last portable nuclear warhead and met Snake in a field of white flowers, by Rokovoj Bereg.
Geez, do you gays pay any fucking attention? Apparently only I did

Yeah I'm not saying the idea of Zero and Big Boss fighting over The Boss's legacy is a bad idea, it just sucks we basically never got to actually see or hear Zero after MGS3. It made sense someone as powerful as Zero would hide behind layers of obfuscation, it's just enigmatically referring to "Cypher" and never seeing him made for a less compelling villain than someone who would actually show up in the story beyond appearing in one post-game optional cassette tape in MGSV and showing up as a braindead vegetable just to die in MGS4

>The Boss destroyed Groznyj Grad
Really fucking debatable on that one considering Snake already attached C3 to the rocket fuel canisters, I would put the real responsibility for destroying Groznyj Grad on Snake. I don't remember them mentioning destroying Graniny Gorki but okay I guess. Seems like a pretty meaningless plot detail that adds and changes nothing.

The whole point of Zero's Patriots faction was that he gradually lost control of it as he was enveloped in the system of control he sought to create. Explicitly stated in 4 and background lore in PW, with V only occuring because he's hospitalised allowing Skull Face to larp as his successor

Yes and I'm saying that makes for a less interesting villain than someone who actually shows up and has a presence in the story compared to just some nebulous "system" or "organization" as an antagonist. That's why they had to introduce Skull Face, a hammy and fun but ultimately pretty poorly written character.

I haven't played V yet (doing a chronological run from where I left off back in the day), but wasn't Zero a Globalist, while Skull Face sought to eradicate the Lingua Franca? How can he LARP as his successor?

That's the subversion at the end, Skull Face seeks to betray Zero's Patriots and render his control impossible. He uses Zero's system and lack of personal control to do so however.
I don't think the system is at all nebulous in 2 or 4 and it perfectly encapsulates the aideological nature of globalism in that it only seeks to perpetuate itself - contrasted with Snake's interpretation of the Boss which views it as a manifesto of rugged individualism and self-determination (which ofc he betrays as early as V and becomes a villainous hypocrite)

>people will misunderstanding the heroes they idolized because of their own flaws
Who coulda dunk it?

>That's the subversion at the end, Skull Face seeks to betray Zero's Patriots and render his control impossible. He uses Zero's system and lack of personal control to do so however.
Oh, I see, thanks user. I've still got ways to go until I reach V.

The system works perfectly fine as an antagonist in 2, specifically because the game went out of the way to personify it and give it screen time via the corrupted AI. Even though they weren't in it much the screen presence of the AI talking through Campbell was utterly iconic, incredibly haunting and memorable. I feel like characters just talking about "Cypher" cryptically never lived up to that, we never got to SEE Zero AS Cypher. Yes thematically, philosophically their conflict is interesting but they didn't do a good job presenting it in PW and V in my opinion. If anything V just felt like a straightfoward revenge story against Skull Face, very little was presented in the way of philosophical ideas besides the lingua franca stuff which was alright.

Do I have to post this copypasta every time I see posts like this? The woman wanted TWO things, not just one. How hard is that for people to comprehend?

Her vision... her personal desire, was world peace and no nukes.
>Oh, and, also, stop being a soldier, put down your gun, and Sing A Song!
For everyone to stop fighting. That's the most easiest thing to understand about her, she hated ALL fighting, it goes against her definition of what it means to live and it destroys the relationships that she wanted to protect like hers with Snake and Sorrow.

What people don't often get is that her will in contrast, was self sacrifice; doing the job you're fucking told to do regardless of your personal objections. Why? She didn't want to let her personal desire get in the way of everyone else, It would only further the cycle of friends and enemies, further distancing the world away from peace, and turn her into the opposite of what she stood for.

This is why she continued to be act as the corrupt USA's lackey tool. She did everything they told him to do, even fighting Snake, even though she wanted to sing instead of fight. It's the whole reason why she wanted to Snake to remain a soldier, instead of something higher; she wanted him to avoid turning against his own ideals.
>Be a soldier, finish your mission, prove your loyalty!

V's story lies in what's not going on on screen and the fact you're essentially the Boss's clean up man. It completes his transformation in PW of betraying freedom for control. Furthermore you really start the war economy in it, as both sides play the Afghans off agajnst each other (remember the context for all those early missions with the rebels). I accept that it wasn't done well because of extraneous factors and because it was perhaps a story better suited for a sidegame, not a mainline entry.

Cypher stuff was genuinely mishandled and not excused by in universe context - the hospitalisation could have happened in a theoretical Act 1, allowing V to more openly be about the Boss's and Zero's downfall as they are replaced by ideological tulpas.

Wasn't she ordered by the CIA to do that? To wipe any evidence. Which raises the question of what the fuck was Skullface doing again?

>I hate the state of war the world is in
>but I will do absolutely nothing about it and just suffer, that's how you stay good!
Literally how is this even a good mindset?

I dunno but her tits are pretty nice

he probably belive that propaganda bullshit that she was "ordered" to betray the united states

LOL

If your strategy of "achieving a world where everyone lets themselves be" is "not letting the world be," you're a retard and can go an hero. You don't fight fire with fire.
Apologies for double posting, I just wanted to rephrase it

>Which raises the question of what the fuck was Skullface doing again?
Learning spanish

>In a world where everywhere you go is war, raising an army to fight for peace is a bad idea and turns you into some hellspawn or something
Yeah I don't copy. What the fuck is this blasted logic.

Doesn't Snake RAISE AN ARMY TO FIGHT Ocelot in MGS4, the game where Snake finally brings peace?

>Yeah I'm not saying the idea of Zero and Big Boss fighting over The Boss's legacy is a bad idea, it just sucks we basically never got to actually see or hear Zero after MGS3
I agree. I think Portable Ops was trying to answer a lot of questions in the timeline for BiBo. How well this was accomplished in that game is another discussion I guess, and the fact that Kojima doesn't really consider it as canon to his story line makes it a moot point too.
BiBo worked with Zero as a FOX operative for some time, only to find himself at offs with what Zero wanted to do with the unit and where/how he intended to use them. BiBo would then leave the US, do some soul searching, and ultimately found Outer Heaven.
Portable Ops is about the closest you can get to BiBo vs Zero. Obviously Zero isn't going out in the field to fight, he'd never be some sort of boss battle or anything. Instead it would have to be a battle of ideologies.

No, Solid raises an NGO. And what Solid does in 1, 2, and 4 is [in a philosophical sense] suffering rather than fighting

Solid, even though he wants peace, expresses no desire to start fights as a way of reaching it.
>But he literally fights Liquid, Sniper Wolf and a bunch of other--
Once again, when I say "start fights" I'm meaning that philosophically, not in a literal sense. Also, the only reason why he even faces them in the first place is because the government manipulated/forced him to. All he would rather do is settle down in Alaska mushing huskies.

Anyways, given that he has no desire to start fights as a way of reaching peace, he does not express the desire to utilize making armies with fearful amounts of power as a methodology of reaching peace either
Solid had Philanthropy, yes, but it was an NGO once again, and he never once wanted it to get stronger and gain fearful amounts of power. When he was told to cease operation of Philanthropy, he did what he was outright told to do and ceased operations, instead of trying to grow bigger as a form of retaliation.

This is where Philanthropy and Diamond Dogs split and differ. Philanthropy and Diamond Dogs had the same initiative (to fight for a peaceful future), but Venom, in contrast, actively agreed to Kaz's idea to have Diamond Dogs build up strength and become a menacing entity if that means they could maintain their nuclear disarmament achievement. Look where that led to; absolutely nothing got better, things just kept getting worse, and Venom by the end of his days was still in war as you can see in the Truth ending

I imagine that somewhere along the line, Kaz decides that his suggestion of building power and setting flames as a peace strategy is actually a bad idea, but Venom naively wants to continue doing it, and that's where Kaz leaves him. Thus leading Venom's story to MG1 as he joins Big Boss, as by that time he'll want the same things that BB's attempting to do, for different reasons.

The two main points of The Boss' "legacy" was a world without borders, and a world where soldiers fought for what they believed in, and not just what their political leaders told them they believed in. This lead to-
>Big Boss
Interpreting a world of soldiers without borders the same way we have doctors without borders. An apolitical neutral state where soldiers can effectively become mercenaries based on their own beliefs, and are free to take whatever missions they want.
>Zero
Interpreted a world with no borders with the presence of soldiers as a single world state, all countries under one governing order, which is what The Patriots became. They were AI to try and keep them free of emotional and political sway, and keep the world under control. This level of control also needed the strength to support it which is what his soldiers were for; enforcing a police state where the state is the whole world.

Ultimately it was left up to personal interpretation but that's where the two major players clashed in their beliefs.

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