To this day, I still have no idea what he was actually trying to do

>What if the guy you're trying to save was actually the bad guy!
Bethesda didn't think of it any more than that.

I feel like you have to be retarded to side with the Institute or Brotherhood of Steel or The Underground

It's actually really simple. The goal was to replace certain people to get intel and influence politics above ground so that the Institute could one day go above ground and rebuild civilization. Synths were created to deal with the slow population growth and labor/security shortages. You might say
>but he decided not to move operations above ground at the end of the questline so all of that was pointless
and you're right the writing is fucking terrible and I have no idea what this asshole wants.

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spitting in his dying face was so fun

as soon as the door opened i shot and killed him, fucked the story and wouldnt let me progress with the railroad until i reloaded an earlier save and let him speak. Real open ended "RPG" this one..

The same way he justifies kidnapping people and FEV raping them into mutants for literally no reason or benefit to anyone, least of all his own people, and then releasing the mutants onto the surface where they actively hunt down, eat, and eviscerate innocent people by the hundreds.

That's exactly it. His initial plan was to slowly replace major political/faction leaders with synths under his command so that his return to the surface would go as smoothly as possible. Then, using institute technology, they would hyper start civilization again via limitless workforces via synths, meat via synth gorillas/animals, agricultural improvements, and advanced weapons systems to fend off anything that would get in the way.
>Too bad Bethesda's too retarded to actually progress with this premise.
If the game had ended once you finished the main questline like past Fallout titles, they could have easily had the Institute stick with their original plan. The problem is that allowing the player to continue playing means that they would have had to actually show the Institute's influence over the Commonwealth after the main quest's conclusion, but that would have been far too difficult. So they just took a shit on a piece of paper and called it the Institute ending.

The Commonwealth tried to create a provisional government and everyone at the talks was gunned down. the commonwealth had massive problems, The institute knew this, and the institute wanted to speed things up by replacing all the leadership with synths who would agree to a form of unified government when the time came to try again.

as should any scientist

If you basically write the story yourself, his two motivations are some weird love for the player character and a desire to fuck with people.
>He replaces random people with robots just to see what the wastelanders do. He says it's for security, but it's more interesting if he's lying.
>Wakes you up and gives you no direction just to see what you do and test your love for him.
>Afraid you won't find him, he leaves breadcrumbs so you DO find him, like Kellogg.
>Deliberately makes you think he's 10 just to fuck your head when he's actually 70.
>Appoints you the heir to the Institute, knowing he's going to die soon, in some weird nepotism and to fuck with the rest of the Institute and see what they do.
>Exclusively refers to you as "Mother" or "Father", showing he probably had no parental figures growing up.
>Only sees the wasteland once, after he's found you. After 70 years, the only think that could bring him to the surface was the desire to see how YOU live.
>Gives you a child copy of himself once he dies, because he fantasizes about you giving it the childhood he never had. And also to fuck with you one last time.
If this angle was fleshed out, I'd think it'd be pretty cool, like a more subtle take on the classic mad scientist. But the writers seemed to make it a point to put as little thought into the story as possible.

every time i see this i think it's some shitty rick and morty reference

But why use the infiltration models with the AI and bodies indistinguishable from humans without vivisection for your labor force when simpler hardier robots would be better, why flood the surface with super mutants that make the place less inhabitable, and why make a synth copy of his 5 year old self and make his immortal hitman parade it around the Commonwealth?

Neither did the writers

>the institute wanted to speed things up by replacing all the leadership with synths who would agree to a form of unified government when the time came to try again.
then why were they trying to create as much division and mistrust as possible

The writing is dogshit, but I can try to play devil's advocate.
>Why use the infiltration models with the ai and bodies indistinguishable from humans?
Father and the Institute were basically under the belief that they and only they could revive civilization, and that the average denizen of the Wasteland would inevitably give in to violent impulses the second it became the easiest solution. They think all wastelanders are irredeemable savages. They wanted to replace political leaders without raising suspicion to make takeover easier.
>Why flood the surface with super mutants?
The super mutants were a failed experiment that got out of hand. Before they had the idea for synths, they were going to try to perfect FEV to make people that would be able to survive the harsh environments of the wasteland.
>Why make a copy of his 5 year old self?
In his words, it's because he 'felt bad that his father/mother didn't get to have the life they wanted, so he gave them a child version to raise.' Basically hoped it would make you happy to be able to play house with a child version of your kid.
>Why make his immortal hitman parade it around the Commonwealth?
Father hated Kellog, apparently. Kellog was meant to serve as a breadcrumb trail to lead you to the Institute. If you happened to take care of Kellog along the way, it would be an added bonus.

Attempting to glean a sensible plan for the institute aside, I would have liked to see some indication of those presence that wasn't just floods of broken down gen 1 synths with crap heavy worthless lasers. Areas covered with hazmat tenting, with pristine synths guarding one or two field researchers collecting samples that try to stealth boy and teleport out if engaged without stealth attacking them or something.

Fair explanations on the latter two, but I was specifically asking why the infiltration type synths, with all the drawbacks and vulnerabilities of the human physique and a tendency to decide they're real boys were used for every menial task instead of reserving them for the infiltration missions.

Sorry if I misunderstand anything you ask, I'm a little drunk. They used the fully upgraded synths for infiltration missions because the gen 1 skeleton boys aren't good at much besides being weapons. Gen 3 synths (the infiltration models) are basically real people with some machine bits in their brains. That makes means they can follow much more specific tasks, as well as giving them a much better capability for problem solving since their processor is literally a human brain with some added techno bits shoved into it.

tldr; Gen 1's are stupid and only really good for being weapons, gen 3's have (mostly) human brains and can handle complex tasks and problem solving.

To add on, it's important to remember that gen 3 synths are decently easy to make. Plus the Institute doesn't view them as people, so to them, they've just made upgrades to an infinite supply of slaves that could do pretty much anything they need them to.

FO4 is full of absolute garbage like that. One minute I'm forced into a conversation where no matter what I choose, character-man says "Huh maybe I am a Synth, I have no memories before the day the bombs fell."

Twenty seconds later, Nick asks me if I remember that old gangster from pre-war to which my character provides details no one else could have known unless they were alive back then.

Originally the Institute was running the Commonwealth Provisional Government to stabilize the surface, then emerge and share their technology. After the government fell apart, they lost faith in this idea and decided to stay underground until everyone's dead, and then emerge.
The idea is that the player character would, as both Director of the Institute, and General of the Minutemen, rebuild a more stable government for the Commonwealth, and facilitate the Institute's emergence.

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>His initial plan was to slowly replace major political/faction leaders with synths under his command so that his return to the surface would go as smoothly as possible.
If that was his initial plan, why does he not seem to care about it anymore? They basically admit to giving up on that plan or any plan to return to the surface pretty early on in the institute quest line. They don't need the surface at all. Not for power, not for food. They want 1 scientist at some point, but they don't need synths to get him. Early on Father meets you on the roof of the institute and basically says "man, this place is a shithole LMAO good thing we don't care about it anymore".
Every conversation you have with Father is so strained and awkward it's clear to me he wants you dead. Why he didn't just kill you in the cryo-chamber is a mystery, but it's clear that once you kill Kellogg and show up in the institute he wishes he did kill you. He sends you on increasingly difficult and suicidal missions, and every time you come back he sound exasperated and annoyed.
Just look at the speech he asks you to record late in the institute quests. You can literally say something like "We're here, we're going to keep fucking with you, and you can't do anything about it hahaha" and he just accepts it. He doesn't give a fuck about the surface. No one in the institute does. Frankly, why should they? They're safe and sound and have a fucking teleporter. But he couldn't be assed to teleport you to the institute when you woke up I guess, oops. They won't even offer you the miraculous implants they gave Kellogg that let him live for so long. Everyone in the institute (especially Father) hates you and hopes you die.

He didn't have a goal because Bethesda forgot to write it in or didn't have enough time to do so. The original concept goal for him was probably similar to Eden's, rebuilding America in some fashion. Nothing involving this was added so who cares because Bethesda didn't.

>The super mutants were a failed experiment that got out of hand. Before they had the idea for synths, they were going to try to perfect FEV to make people that would be able to survive the harsh environments of the wasteland.

A failed experiment they then just turned loose on the wasteland, killing, raping and pillaging to their heart's content. I'm pretty sure hearing about that alone would be enough to turn anyone who might be on the fence against them. All that suffering because the Institute decided to let their fuckup go free-range.

You're right, he doesn't care about it anymore. After several bad encounters their field agents/synths had with surface dwellers, by the time the story takes place, they've essentially decided that humanity is a lost cause. Humans are evil, settlements doomed, blah blah blah. That's why their goal has become to redefine humanity, and make a 'next stage' through synths that can be controlled. One where there cannot be raiders because anyone with such impulses could be remotely killed. "Mankind, redefined."
From what I can tell, it sort of went like this:
>Kidnap some raiders and random idiots
>Dip them in modified FEV
>They're violent and stupid
>Try to fix it
>Can't
>Start to cause too many problems and are too hard to kill, just let them loose
Hey man, I said I'd try to play devil's advocate. I never said that the writing was actually good.

Imagine if he could be female and gave you a loli