Does 3D Sonic fundamentally not work, is Team Sonic just utterly incompetent, or is it a bit of both?

Does 3D Sonic fundamentally not work, is Team Sonic just utterly incompetent, or is it a bit of both?

Attached: Sonic3d.png (512x288, 320.67K)

Sonic was never good

Sonic is always good

>What is Sonic 2
>What is Sonic 3 & Knuckles
>What is CD
>What is Adventure 1
>What is Mania

Design a good one, now. Go.

Correct. I grew up on that shit. I loved Sonic 2. It has its good points. I'm not sure if it holds up, though. I should try it again to make sure.

the general sentiment for the two adventure games is "the sonic/shadow stages and chao garden were fun but everything else was bad"

yes 3D sonic works, its beloved by the majority who played the adventure games, the issue is that sega never capitalized on it
the movement and control of adventure 2 was perfect, but they decided that for every 3D title past it they would slow down your acceleration, add turn rates, slow down your homing attack, lower your jump height, and lower your top speed because retards couldnt control adventure games at their highest speed

I'M GONNA REACH FOR THE STARS

sa1 and sa2 just so happened to be good, they have no idea how to make a game better than those 2 or even as good

I think it could work, SA1 is kind of close to what I'd find ideal where there's some alternative routes and shortcuts you could do if you just experiment and look around for a bit, but it also could have gone further in that direction than it did.

The only bad games in this picture are Forces and Sonic 06

it would be fine if the spindash wasnt such a copout
why have multiple paths if you can just fly over everything like you can in boost games?

Sonic adventure 2, Sonic unleashed, and sonic generations proved that sonic can work in 3D. Sonic team just is really stupid.

It's definitely not as easy to replicate what makes Sonic a good speed based platformer in a 3D environment without making it too easy or too rigid, but I think it's pretty unanimous that the Sonic stages of the first 2 Adventure games are fairly good. I'm still convinced that if we were to receive a 3D Sonic game with like, 20 to 30-ish levels accross 10 environments that mostly played like the likes of City Escape, Red Mountain or Green Forest, the question wouldn't be asked. Heroes was close but messed up controls, had an unwarranted gimmick & structure issues.

The spindash is often the reason for these alternative routes, though.

06 is a good game.

Adventure 2 was good. Sonic Heroes was good. Sonic and the black Knight was decent. Although they've failed more than they've succeeded, they've proven it's possible to make a good 3D sonic game. The issue at this point is that they won't pick a lane and stay with it.

Only Shadow and Silver's episodes

it shouldnt be though since it just leads to path skipping altogether
the high areas on 2D games work because being outnof sight above the stage and landing perfect jumps to keep it up is cool
in 3D sonic games its shitty because it doesnt lead to more jump chains it just leads to extended fall states
falling isnt going fast just like boosting isnt either

Based and spinpilled.

Attached: Sonic Adventure 2 spin dash.webm (854x478, 2.14M)

>a character that in openings, anime, cartoons, comics, trailers, etc is seen doing parkour from place to place running fast and spindashing and jumping and whatever
>cant work into 3d
Only in Sonic Team's narrow mind

Really, look at fucking Saints Row 4. That shit has the character with super powers climbing shit, flying, running around with a boost around and it works great. There are even missions based on racing tracks as time attacks and others with fucking platforming and it works. You even have a super power to grab things like Silver does and you can run fast with that. The boost in this game is even better than that shit in Forces.
If Volition can do this, why the fuck cant Sega hire someone that can do the same and make it work around stages? Oh yes, their ego would be crushed hiring someone to work on a Sonic, right.

Sonic Adventure works perfectly fine as far as Sonic gameplay goes.

*saves Sonic*

Attached: Sonic Sleeping Meadow Zone.webm (560x336, 2.87M)

I can't see that as much of a negative. As a reward for understanding the map you can complete it faster.

so why go with the adventure formula when the boost does what you want more efficiently?

At least based off of what I played in Unleashed and Forces, boost is more you running down a hallway and dodging to the left and right sometimes. The Adventure style gives you more freedom to move around.
Only played a little bit of Unleashed though. I played like two werehog stages and decided I'd had enough of that.

Movement in sa2 is worse than in sa1.
Sonic and Shadow have problems with using rails. In sa2 you can't switch between running and rolling
Eggman and Tails are so slow and lose speed from any turn, unlike unstoppable Gamma
Knuckles and Rouge are the same as sa1 Knuckles, so these two are okay, I think?

looks like trackmania

Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 have moments of high quality, but the games are overall too inconsistent. They prove that good 3D Sonic games can be made but are not themselves good.

OP you posted multiple games, at least 2, where Sonic did, in fact, work in 3d.

>Movement in sa2 is worse than in sa1.
No it's not, Sonic and Shadow feel much nicer

>Sonic and Shadow have problems with using rail
In what sense? Like jumping between them can not work sometimes? Fair enough

>In sa2 you can't switch between running and rolling
Not instantly, no, but it's not like it takes 2 seconds straight to charge the spindash up and/or that it always stops you dead during the charge up or that it's not spammable like people meme it to be, see . It's fine as is, there's never really a situation where you'd WANT to transiton into a ball at low speeds anyways

>Eggman and Tails are so slow and lose speed from any turn,, unlike unstoppable gamma
Their better level design outweighs them being less responsive then gamma; and they still control fine even if not as nicely: Both still accelerate and turn faster then Mario in SM64, for example


SA1/2 ARE inconsistent, but I'd still argue they are good overall, or at least SAa2 is.

The speed stages are generally amazing, the mech stages are generally meh/alright, and the treasure stages are mostly split between good to great and bad to iffy stages.

That'd still average out to at least a "Good", if not a great, especially with Chao Garden and the 10/10 soundtrack in consideration

sonic in 3d can work wonderfully, sonic team is fully to blame for 3d sonic falling out of the public favour. I have no idea why, but every time they had a good chance to make a proper 3d sonic game, they ruin it with shit story, shit level design, shit gimmicks, or a combination of the previous three. Fangames aren't that much better, because they're all so focused on the genesis game's level design, which doesn't work in 3d.
Sonic team nowadays is utterly terrified of trying new things because when they did, they always had to balance the interesting new mechanics with something stupid. Boost gameplay isn't bad, and those who say it is haven't played sonic colors/unleashed/generations. The boost segments in those games were incredible, but sonic team wanted to go back to safe 2d territory asap so that retro fanboys wouldn't whine about "WEEEH TOO MUCH BOOST WHEN IS SONIC 2 REMASTER SEGA IS DUMB"
seriously, fuck you retro fanboys that shit on boost gameplay constantly. you got sonic mania, you got classic sonic in both generations and forces, and you got like 90% of the fangames released nowadays. please just go kill yourselves now, because sonic will never be good again in your eyes.

Not even classic fans want Classic Sonic shoved into Modern Sonic because that shit isnt even like a classic. IT's Sega's fault for being retarded, the same reason why 3d never got sonic friends back as playable because the retards took the "we are tired of sonic friends" too far when fans meant "stop using stupid gimmicks for those characters, give us Sonic stages and have those characters in there as bonus"

And boost isnt good, it is fun at first but there isnt any replayability. Sonic is perfect for Parkour and mix with what Adventure/Heroes/06 tried with level design and alternative paths but with polishment instead of rushed